Mind/FF/Psi questions
I personally would advice you to take Confuse over World of Confusion. It has a very small radius and rolls a tohit check. The only reason to ever take it, IMO, is as a mule for the purple confuse set, but you already have access to a better, more useful power in Confuse.
As for resistance... personally I have always preferred defense. The problem with resistance is that it will only defend against that type. So high smashing/lethal resistance will only help reduce damage from those portions of an attack, which still leaves a lot of damage to get through in other forms. Now smash/lethal defense will block all the damage from an attack that is, for example, smashing/energy. Defense is, of course, subject to fits of bad luck via the random number generator but over all I find it more reliable on a low HP AT. The two APPs that could help you reach that goal, Ice Mastery and Mace Mastery, also have some powers that may be useful as well.
I always hated the ST confuse(while leveling) because you don't get rewards for confused kills. Another perk I found with WoC is that it'll benefit from interface, which happens to have another chance-to-confuse to stack since WoC does do damage(although tiny), and also the damage half of the interface proc, to stack with the IOs put into it, hopefully hitting anything that gets near melee hard for me .
I prefer defense too, but in my journey of trying to make the character more fun to play I had to sacrifice weave and I traded Ice Armor(god I hate having my main wrapped in that) for the Psi armortoggle.
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I always hated the ST confuse(while leveling) because you don't get rewards for confused kills. Another perk I found with WoC is that it'll benefit from interface, which happens to have another chance-to-confuse to stack since WoC does do damage(although tiny), and also the damage half of the interface proc, to stack with the IOs put into it, hopefully hitting anything that gets near melee hard for me .
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I prefer defense too, but in my journey of trying to make the character more fun to play I had to sacrifice weave and I traded Ice Armor(god I hate having my main wrapped in that) for the Psi armortoggle. |
I always hated the ST confuse(while leveling) because you don't get rewards for confused kills. Another perk I found with WoC is that it'll benefit from interface, which happens to have another chance-to-confuse to stack since WoC does do damage(although tiny), and also the damage half of the interface proc, to stack with the IOs put into it, hopefully hitting anything that gets near melee hard for me .
I prefer defense too, but in my journey of trying to make the character more fun to play I had to sacrifice weave and I traded Ice Armor(god I hate having my main wrapped in that) for the Psi armortoggle. |
I would put the purple Confuse set in Confuse rather than Mass Confusion. Why? Mass Confusion has a long recharge. Confuse can be used over and over again, with each use having a chance to turn the single target confuse into a mini-Mass Confusion. I have that proc in all four of my level 50 Illusionists in Deceive, and it is wonderful.
Put a Malaise set in Mass Confusion and dump WoC. There is no good reason that a Mind/FF should be in melee range, since everything in your primary and secondary are ranged. You want to keep foes at range -- that's why you have Force Bubble. My Mind/FF often stays in the air just to stay out of melee.
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I don't think I've had Confuse in PG's build since like 2009, and I love him. The respec is mainly to get the psi mastery set for concept. I do find enemies getting into melee with him all the time, and the sheer premise of "my mind is so strong you're gonna get yours twisted into knots just for standing near me" is great. I have this build SO'd on beta and have only solo'd some mobs, but it seems ok.
Oh yeah, I also don't have Force Bubble lol, don't think I've had it since early 2010. I only ended up using it at mothership raids, and then leaders changed and people whined about it so it had 0 purpose.
Like I said the whole purpose of the respec is concept. I think I'd enjoy mace mastery summoning a spider on my signature hero less than the ice I'm getting rid of .
Do the remaining defense numbers, combined with the scattered resistance look ok for your average mind controller?
Wow. I just looked at the advanced info of Repulsion Bomb in Mid's. I knew it was mag2 stun, but besides that it's only a 40% chance to stun. No wonder the only things I see get stunned are npcs 20+ lvls lower than me I hit with it for amusement lol. Even then it's very rare. I guess swapping the AA Stun for the Chance for tohit proc would be a fine change then?
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Like I said the whole purpose of the respec is concept. I think I'd enjoy mace mastery summoning a spider on my signature hero less than the ice I'm getting rid of
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As for the your defenses, you've reduced the enemies base chance of hitting you from 1 in 2 to about 1 in 3. That falls into a noticeable range. For resistances, it seems like you'll be paying a lot of endurance for very little mitigation. Compare your endurance usage and recovery with Tough and Mind Over Body toggled on; it's not looking too keen. Indomitable Will would at least plug two of the mez holes left by Dispersion Bubble.
A few comments. You didn't tell us much about how you play the character, so I have to make some guesses.
1) If you are concerned about the strength of the build, consider swapping from Psi APP to Primal. All 5 powers in Primal are very useful. Power Boost will greatly increase the duration of some controls and also your shields. It will also provide you 15 seconds of bonus defense from your toggle powers. Since you will probably be hitting PB a lot right at the start of a fight, it can help with alphas.
2) Comments from previous posters about the importance of the single target Confuse were spot on. In particular, its useful for quickly stacking on a boss with Mass Confusion, especially in incarnate content. Cast Power Boost before Mass Confusion for a very long lasting base effect. Extremely useful against enemies like giant War Walkers and other big crowds of bosses where Mass Confusion itself does little but you can then work your way through each of them and confuse them in turn.
I provided a sample build below I did for someone a while back who asked for a build using Spiritual and incorporating Aid Self.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
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Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mesmerize -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Dominate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Deflection Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(5), DefBuff-I(15)
Level 6: Levitate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 8: Confuse -- CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(A), CoPers-Conf(15), CoPers-Conf%(17), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(17), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(23), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Insulation Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(37)
Level 12: Mass Hypnosis -- FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(A), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(42), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(43), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(43), FtnHyp-Plct%(43)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(39)
Level 16: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 18: Total Domination -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(40), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(40), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(42)
Level 20: Dispersion Bubble -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(21), RedFtn-Def(21), RedFtn-EndRdx(25), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), HO:Cyto(36), DefBuff-I(39)
Level 24: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(36), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(48), Numna-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 26: Terrify -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(31), Posi-Dmg/Rng(34), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 28: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- Mlais-Acc/Rchg(A), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(33), Mlais-Acc/EndRdx(33), Mlais-Conf/Rng(33), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 35: Power Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(48), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 38: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 41: Energy Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Posi-Dmg/Rng(50)
Level 44: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), EndMod-I(3)
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People who know me tell me I play PG like a blaster. I used to hate playing him because everything about the powers were lackluster. Then I switched all his ST attacks from mezslotted to damageslotted and he'd never been more fun .
I've heard, and see from how much it's avoided in this thread, that Psi mastery must be one of the worst ancillary sets available. But I really want PG to have PsiNado and WoC lol .
I've created several alts/"rerolls" of PG playing with all the different psychic sets available (psy/mental blaster, mind/psi dom, mind/ea dom, psy/kin corr, even a widow). The widow reinforced for me that PsiNado is one of my favorite powers in the game(partly because of the fx), so I want it on my main/original PG. I've wanted WoC on at least one since it came out but never got any of the PGs besides the main(this one) high enough to try it.
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No one can tell you you're wrong about powers you really want for concept reasons. However I do have to say I agree with the others who posted about WoC being a very weak power, especially on a Controller. The procs you have slotted only fire once every 10 seconds. In order for them to hit, you must be standing within 8ft of any potential targets. The Confusion is only Mag 2, so it only affects minions, and then for only 4 seconds. Against a +4 minion, it lasts 2 seconds due to the purple patch. I suspect you would actually do more damage slotting up and proccing out Brawl than World of Confusion.
Forgive me, because there were some additional things about your build I missed on the first pass that you may want to address. I'm not trying to be nit-picky, just making sure you considered all of these:
- Your ally shields are severely underslotted compared to the norm. They are only providing +12% defense. This may be okay if you never team, but the fact that you have incarnate powers indicates to me you are doing trials. For comparison, the Mind/FF/Primal build I posted prior provides +31% defense with Power Boost or +17% without. At the very least, put at least one more defense slot there.
- The two purples in Total Domination are mostly wasted. Either 5 slot with purples, or 4 slot Basilisk Gaze and a Essence of Curare Acc/Hold/Rec. In particular, do not waste 100 million influence or more to put a damage proc here.
- If you take Repulsion Bomb at all, you probably want to slot it like a blast, for damage.
- Swap the order of Boxing, Tough, and Mass Hypnosis in case you exemplar.
- It is very unusual to be taking Boxing and Tough, but not Weave, on a Force Field character. (Note, however, that the build I posted previously did do this, which I only just now caught. That build could probably get away with it more because it was almost Ranged capped.)
- I recommend dropping one of your KB protection IOs. Mag 8 KB protection doesn't protect from much Mag 4 doesn't cover. If you want to go up to Mag 12, that will protect against some additional affects, but IMO its not really worth it on a ranged squishy.
- Slotting up Health on a Controller is usually not very effective due to the ATs low hit points.
Again I hate to be nit-picky or seem like a min/maxer, but I would be very concerned about the ability of the build you posted to provide the support I'd expect of a typical Mind/FF Controller. If you enjoy the character anyway, its ok, but I think a lot of teams would be frustrated to find out you skipped slotting your shields and skipped your best single target mezz in order to slot Afterburner.
Again I hate to be nit-picky or seem like a min/maxer, but I would be very concerned about the ability of the build you posted to provide the support I'd expect of a typical Mind/FF Controller. If you enjoy the character anyway, its ok, but I think a lot of teams would be frustrated to find out you skipped slotting your shields and skipped your best single target mezz in order to slot Afterburner.
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One reason I didn't feel too bad dropping weave was I frequently didn't even toggle it on, because with all the other defense in the build I didn't see a difference with or without it.
Drop "one" of my KB IOs? There's supposed to only be one, I never slot more than that per toon.
I think I might respec into this one in a couple hours and test it out. Without any IOs he didn't get pwn'd with this build on beta, so hopefully it won't magically be different on live lol.
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- Slotting up Health on a Controller is usually not very effective due to the ATs low hit points.
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I have found that this helps quite a bit with several controllers I have with Hibernate . . . the One-shot code gives me that second I need to turn on Hibernate and prevent a faceplant.
I agree that it is probably not worth a lot of extra effort to slot for Regen, but if the opportunity is there, might as well take it. If you have a LotG Recharge in the ally shields, you might as well slot the LotG Defense and get that Regen bonus. Adding a Numina Heal to the Numina Proc adds a LOT of Regen.
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Back when I was a total newb I had PG at lv50 at one point without having Deflection or Insulation in the build at all, lol xD. Surprisingly only like 1 person ever brought it up. I spend a lot of time stuck solo with the random hours I play coh, so yeah this one is built to be offensive over control/support. I've actually never had anyone recommend I put slots on the ally bubbles for a controller before when getting help with a build. On a defender it's probably more common maybe?
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One reason I didn't feel too bad dropping weave was I frequently didn't even toggle it on, because with all the other defense in the build I didn't see a difference with or without it. |
Note that there are differing opinions all over the boards about how necessary and useful defense is on a Controller. I personally feel naked without fairly strong defense. YMMV.
Drop "one" of my KB IOs? There's supposed to only be one, I never slot more than that per toon. |
I think I might respec into this one in a couple hours and test it out. Without any IOs he didn't get pwn'd with this build on beta, so hopefully it won't magically be different on live lol. |
It's hard to say. It may be that most people just assume the shields are slotted, because not slotting them is so unusual. That's what I did the first pass through. I assume people in the game are just too polite to say anything about the lack of shields.
One is in Tough, the other in Afterburner. [EDIT: Sorry I'm wrong. What's slotted in Afterburner are two Blessing of the Zephyr's. I've just never seen this set actually used without the -KB component. I do feel it almost necessary to say that Afterburner is a pretty awful power though. If you're taking it for concept, it's doable, but IMO Super Speed is MUCH more useful in general due to its Stealth, particularly in incarnate content where there is a constant need to run around undetected. Mind Control in particular benefits from stealth due to all the aggroless mezzes, although since you skipped the best of those it may not be quite as easy to draw. One specific capability your Controller is lacking is the ability to run ahead mostly-invisibly in trials like Keyes and confuse the Victorias.] I doubt you would get completely destroyed with any Mind/FF build. However I also think that you may be short changing the possibilities. |
I chose to put the blessings in Afterburner for the setbonuses(they were already on hand from his previous build), and put an Invention: EndRed in fly instead. I've loved this power since my first day with it on beta, now I finally have it on PG . I hated having to "gimp" my traveltime by choosing Fly, and now that's lessened. PG did have SS for stealth last year, it was meh. And I reminded myself when I played him the other day; he has PFF. Plus all his other toggles, he can tank his way through the map instead of stealth. Or (if I was a patient person which I'm not) Mass Hypnotize each mob and walk by with no stealth, since when I thought to check it Mass Hyp's recharge is 12 seconds.
With Interface it's hard to gauge the damage done by powers, but I liked the numbers I was seeing for WoC, and I have to buy 1 last proc still(Oblit and Eradication from ParagonMarket ftw ).
Kinda going out of order, but I know the build short changes the possibilities of Mind/FF. He was my first toon back when I joined(week of i11 launch I think). Back then Mind was the only Psychic thing players had available(All the others including VEATs were i12 6months later). I didn't want to be a controller that needed teams to play, I wanted to do good damage. So as I said someone told me earlier, I adjusted my build attempting to "break the AT", disregarding all the mez Mind is known for, slotting for damage and solo-survivability instead.
I'm still shocked about the slotting allybubbles thing. I've been given midsbuilds via the boards and email from people when I was in a Respec-PG mood, and this is literally the first I've heard it suggested in 4 years lol.
Oh and it's perfectly possible to get completely destroyed with a Mind/FF build, my first 2 were proof of that. Here's a hint of it- the very first build had Fly, SJ, TP, and Hasten, before the prereq removal of course, and he was only like lv35 then. lol.
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I'm still shocked about the slotting allybubbles thing. I've been given midsbuilds via the boards and email from people when I was in a Respec-PG mood, and this is literally the first I've heard it suggested in 4 years lol.
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That IS really weird IMO. I don't even really know what to say about it. When you play Force Field, you put at least some defense boost into the shields; this is pretty much a cardinal rule. There are some concept builds that might not do this, but for a standard FF build, other than the LotGs for the +Recharge, I would consider any FF build that didn't have at least some defense slotted to be marginal. I'm not hating on your build or anything, but I do honestly wonder about the creditentials of the people you've been asking to look over your build. Especially if they've been saying to skip Confusion.
Oh and it's perfectly possible to get completely destroyed with a Mind/FF build, my first 2 were proof of that. Here's a hint of it- the very first build had Fly, SJ, TP, and Hasten, before the prereq removal of course, and he was only like lv35 then. lol. |
If you mostly solo, or stick to a small group of players, or just run with people who don't care/play mostly concept I think you'd be mostly fine, but in the interest of honesty I think your build underperforms. I hope that doesn't come across as elitist or nasty, I just feel it necessary to share since we are talking about a build evaluation, and sometimes other players who aren't part of the conversation decide to copy builds from the boards. In the end no one can tell you whether a build is 'right' or 'wrong' because all of it is subjective, although I think for all the money being spent on this build it comes up short in a lot of ways.
If nothing else, I'm going to suggest that if you decide to PUG, not telling anyone out loud that you plan to control enemies using World of Confusion. This really would set off a lot of alarms for people who are looking for skilled players. Maybe you are in fact very good at playing your character, but that is still a pretty big red flag.
People who know me tell me I play PG like a blaster. I used to hate playing him because everything about the powers were lackluster. Then I switched all his ST attacks from mezslotted to damageslotted and he'd never been more fun .
I've heard, and see from how much it's avoided in this thread, that Psi mastery must be one of the worst ancillary sets available. But I really want PG to have PsiNado and WoC lol . |
That IS really weird IMO. I don't even really know what to say about it. When you play Force Field, you put at least some defense boost into the shields; this is pretty much a cardinal rule. There are some concept builds that might not do this, but for a standard FF build, other than the LotGs for the +Recharge, I would consider any FF build that didn't have at least some defense slotted to be marginal. I'm not hating on your build or anything, but I do honestly wonder about the creditentials of the people you've been asking to look over your build. Especially if they've been saying to skip Confusion.
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Hopefully you will be happy with the build, although again I think what you've got is highly unusual. I'm not trolling you but just FYI I feel your build is almost to the point where I think some teams who were aware of your slotting would be highly skeptical and possibly even kick/not invite this character. S/he is a Force Fielder with weak shields and poor personal defense, and a Mind Controller with no ability to stack Confusion, no stealth, and all Psi damage. Basically, you've bypassed some of the main reasons to roll either set. If you mostly solo, or stick to a small group of players, or just run with people who don't care/play mostly concept I think you'd be mostly fine, but in the interest of honesty I think your build underperforms. I hope that doesn't come across as elitist or nasty, I just feel it necessary to share since we are talking about a build evaluation, and sometimes other players who aren't part of the conversation decide to copy builds from the boards. In the end no one can tell you whether a build is 'right' or 'wrong' because all of it is subjective, although I think for all the money being spent on this build it comes up short in a lot of ways. If nothing else, I'm going to suggest that if you decide to PUG, not telling anyone out loud that you plan to control enemies using World of Confusion. This really would set off a lot of alarms for people who are looking for skilled players. Maybe you are in fact very good at playing your character, but that is still a pretty big red flag. |
I should add that if you're interested in a power that is World of Confusion-like but more useful, look to Ice Control for Arctic Air. It's basically the same idea but much larger and more effective. Fire Control and Electric Control have effective PBAoE toggles as well.
I wasn't "attached" to WoC(until I just took it ), I just wanted it because it fit the concept. I know it's confuse is extremely lacking, I took it for damage(3 procs, plus interface), not the control. idk what you guys thought of the ice build, but I used to frequently run Mo's with it last summer before incarnate content. A strict Mo leader was afraid to have a mindcontroller on a master, but a mutual friend told them I had a good build and they let me run, and that leader saw for themselves that it didn't die. I'd be a little more cautious now myself lacking Hibernate&the def of Frozen Armor, but the primary/secondary slotting is just about identical to that build.
As for PsiNado breaking sleep...lol. Any team with a size>1 will have sleep broken every time before the gfx even show above the npc's head.
I never considered seeking out a replacement for WoC, it's not that I love PBAoEs, it was just a power in an ancillary I already had decided to take I thought i'd include because it also fit. I'd never re-roll for a pbaoe thing like that, PG is actually my first toon&50 from 2007.
His mind/psi dom clone has a lot more offensive power which was what I wanted, but I still don't think when it gets to 50(from 38ish) it'll become my main, I've gotten used to PG and FF.
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I'm finally ready to respec my main, again; PG. The huge change is I'm swapping out the ice ancil for Psi because despite ice being the clear winner #s wise there's no concept, and it makes the character much less fun to play.
1-Contagious Confusion IO; should I put it in Mass Confusion(with the rest of the set) or frankenslot it into World Of Confusion with the other procs?
2-With the Absolute Amazement proc finally being fixed, should I pull a piece out of the 5slotted set in Repulsion Bomb to give it a nice chance to do something extra useful? If so, which of the 5 remaining AA pieces could repulsion afford to lose?
3-Is the s/l near-capped resistance enough to make up for the overall lower defense?
Here's the build:
His incarnate powers are Cardiac Radial T4, Barrier Core T4, and Cognitive Radial(T3 for a couple more trials) with a pyronic T3 I plan on changing to Vorpal. That's another question, with all the def from FF should I go core or radial Vorpal?
Since when do the forums disable links???
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online