Thugs/FF, what went wrong?

Guys, I had (keyword being "had") a Thugs/FF MM that was level 25. I wound up deleting him because he was completely unplayable. The worst points being : a) low damage and b) scatter. For some odd reason, enemies would just scatter once the pets started attacking. Then I'd have to chase them down all over the map.

I have a Demons/Thermal and Bots/FF MMs and this NEVER happens, ever (also they do way better dps but I could live with the low DPS as long as the scatter problem is fixed). Any Thugs/FF MMs out there? I'll reroll a new one, if I could figure out what I did wrong or how to stop the scatter. I would just move on and forget all about the toon but I had a cool character concept going with him. Any advice would be appreciated.

Low damage? I have no idea what you're talking about. My thugs/time has nothing yet upping his damage output and he's doing just fine.

Scatter? Have never seen it on my thugs/time. I suggest you double-check if you've put knockback enhancement in any of your powers.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

Like most MM sets, damage is a bit meh until you get the second upgrade.

At level 25 nothing in either set would cause scatter. At 32 the arsonist's firebomb does cause things to run, and of course there's repulsion field at 28.

I have seen the scatter thing on /storm also when the tohit debuff is high. There is something kind of new, maybe not, where if a foe is not hitting a target often enough, they spaz (technical MMO term) and run like hell. The same thing happens at times with darkest night. I have seen quite a few bosses, even longbow, ditch their friends and run out of a room due to Darkest Night. It is very annoying.

Really FF is only incredible when with robots, since they can bubble you back.

My very first vill 50 was a thug/ff and I still find it effective for soloing, teaming or 2-boxing. Enforcer Maneuvers + your +Def buffs give more pet defense than bots get with FF.

During leveling up I never particularly noticed scatter.

OP, you're simply at what I always refer to as "the dark days" for an MM, regardless of primary. You'll see a dramatic change in more level with the Bruiser and things will really pick up at 32. Well, I should say "you would have seen" since you deleted it, prematurely I have to say. Never delete a MM before level 32 if performance is the source of your dissatisfaction.

Later on, epics provide a lot of anti-scatter tools, most notably with aoe immobs. Another noteworthy anti-scatter tool - Provoke.

@Talen Lee
Very very low damage, at least when compared to my Demons/Thermal or Bots/FF MMs. I could actually live with the low damage but the scatter was game breaking for me, I couldn't deal with it. It got so bad that groups started complaining and I was forced to "solo" (if you can call it that) my Thugs/FF MM.

@Psylenz
I knew I wasn't going crazy But if the "foe not hitting" thing was the issue, why doesn't my Bots/FF MM have the "scatter" problem?

@Deacon_NA
Yeah, I learned that you can't really judge a MM till you get your Tier 3 pet and the final pet upgrade at 32. But even if the low damage issue would be fixed by it (they doing less damage than my Demons or Bots at lvl 25), I have a feeling the 'scatter' problem wouldn't be fixed. That's my number one issue (the low damage is secondary).

Man this is killing me because I have those two rare "recharge intensive pet" IOs that grant the 10% resistance bonus aura and the 5% defense bonus aura.

Not sure of the details of the Thugs/FF vs Bots/FF, but it clearly depends on the base defense of the protector bots bubbles vs. the thugs leadership and if you slotted defense equally.

I am not sure on the specifics of the enforcers leadership, but I think it applies to the 'caster' - the enforcer, while the mastermind, and each protector bot only get one shield.

Well I rolled yet another Thugs MM this time Thugs/Time. Big difference. The Thugs survivability is crap BUT the enemies DO NOT SCATTER. I think Psylenz was right. If they can't hit you or your pets, they run. My Thugs/FF MM's pets had something like 57.8% defense to all at lvl 25. My Thugs/Time pets have no where near that like 34.2%.

I'm looking down the line and I see Farsight and Power Boost will up that number even more. But even if I get my defense back to unhittable numbers, I got tools to slow/lockdown the enemies in Time that FF lacked.

I wonder if the Devs are aware of this? If they are, do they plan on fixing it soon?

You will be pleasantly surprised how much better pets perform with farsight. Make sure you make that build extra heavy on recharge bonuses.

I've noticed the same thing the OP was talking about. On Thugs/FF the mobs just won't stay put, which makes it nearly impossible to keep your arsonist alive. It tends to be the ones he's targeting that run away (and of course he can't help but chase them), so I theorize that the problem is that DoT effects must scare enemies. (That and the excessive Defense together)

If I had any advice, it would be stick it out until level 35 so you can get an AOE immobilize power, but then I'd be a hypocrite. I deleted my Thugs/FF at Level 32 I think.

The other bit of advice I can give (which I've tried on other builds, but not my thugs/ff because I hadn't thought of it yet), is to go into the follow command, and instead of just changing "aggressive" to "defensive", also delete the word "follow". So the command just says "petcom_all defensive". Then just always hit the green "passive" button before hitting the "defensive" button when you want to call your pets back.

At least it will enable you to keep your henchmen near you. I wish someday they would change the "Stay" command so it fully immobilizes your pets. Then thugs/ff would be godlike.

I didn't do it at lower levels, but my /time controller is capable of tanking most content now at 50. Later you'll definitely want to be taking the alpha instead of your squishy little thugs.