So what is the "state of the art" in building Tri-form Peacebringers?
There is a lack of high end (or if you prefer "state of the art") tri-form builds because high end builds make tri-form not just inefficient, but weaker than a human form would be. You are looking at the symptom of the latest round of buffs and thinking it's only choice, rather than practicality.
Softcap and perma LF is quite easy with the right sets...on a human form, anyways. Perhaps you just need to play with Mids' some more. 
From a thought experiment point of view, recharge would be the highest priority for a Tri-Form. Then, you could aim for either +dmg or +regen. I don't think defense bonuses would help as much since you couldn't stack them with anything really. What your playstyle goal would be is something fairly similar in nature to the MFing Warshade:
1.) Buff up using Inner Light and Light Form - should be perma.
2.) Fire off Nova AoEs
3.) White Dwarf Step into spawn. Use Dwarf Flare.
4.) Drop to Human for ST clean up or Solar Flare depending on number of living foes.
5.) Repeat at next spawn.
Rather than using Stygian Circle for a heal, Peacebringers have a self-sufficient version in White Dwarf Sublimation which is significantly more powerful than Reform Essence (or whatever the Human heal is, I get it mixed up with the buffs they have).
Recharge is the first set bonus to aim for since it makes every aspect of the build better and increases both offense and survival by getting Inner Light and Light Form perma. Damage would be a good secondary bonus to aim for, since Peacebringers lack the damage-capping power of double mire. On the other hand, Regen could allow you to take advantage of higher HP from Essence Boost.
This sort of a build is theoretically not as effective as a human only at the highest price range. However, at low-mid price ranges it will be more effective because of the ability to leverage Dwarf Form before Light Form becomes perma and the ability to use White Dwarf Sublimation. It also allows you to use Nova Form to offset any down time you have in Inner Light. I don't actually have a Mid's build made up for this, but it should be relatively easy to make.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
Since there seems to be some confusion on what I'm looking for here, this is my current build plan, ever so slightly altered from what I've got on Live which is my legacy build from pre-Issue 21.
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I know that there are plenty of people who will look at this and ask the inevitable, "WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!?" ... but in actual gameplay the build has held together surprisingly well (for not being a purple monster). All three forms have their uses and are able to be "maintained" for significant periods of time without needing to switch around and madly stance dance^H^H^H^H^H form shift all the time.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1793;789;1578;HEX;| |78DA6D94594F535110C7CF6D4F5B6F294B694BCBD25290A5B2141A89F1CDA02486C| |85283FA66B0D083DCA45C4817E26EFC006E9FC0449F7CF1C16FE03730C6A80F7E05| |16C52D8A5C873BFFC235E526CDEFF47F66E6CC99CC99E91B138157E71F9C115AF3B| |942AE549ACFAADCA25A281AE67555F4CDE4CA9562AE20E86B18AF942B2B66F252A5| |68D2A68FA45EA7EDFCECD292324BC6BA4A4F55560C73B5529A3F4B11CB3DFF594DA| |81AAB713A2238692EABA232CBE9EAC29F5D5D2DA4E7D694CA37DACB2995CBAB6269| |D9580BDAFF27CD75A3642C1805A37CB3DE56A655DE58344C256294DC29FAFDF6087| |C96140F096D529C78043E069F30079E1243526CECFB68B68F10515AE8526C92A6B1| |A66943848C142E708BF6DCBC27DD17689190424E83334CEF2C9865EE920FA76609C| |F4B97106129F648F0B1E6F18D11BC6E3150E56B3E6BE8ADCBF61F7A07BE71D9F96D| |93AF8EFCF41ECDBE8F3FC5145E21EA10B7EE96CBD6866F8377C0BBCC917BE07DE61| |78A5B8FB8F588DB80B816ED35725CADF119DB37BD606A7466106706DFB3D6FC01FC| |C80C7F62B6C4F96E55EE50DC10E28650E330F88DF622A85BE434D7E63B6951D8470| |7D92E06BA298F56D8B7C2FE07D9B7436BEF62BB6E2A7C1CF78CC337017A2946277A| |A8738BEB3EB2CDCC7C01BF823BCC9F744637CEE8469C5FA4F522CF5E687D60339D9| |F42CFA5905388B4416883CF5D5C07D2D2889B8ED0664C8A2069A3D046A175C883BE| |A71A73BC29A736CC5A56A2D549D3AAF7B6EDF655CB4A397D3E73AFCD91A643D3719| |E5F3AFA19E7E9879AF4E0ED75E0ED75E0ED25F0F612787B81431F8F07BD7FAC4ABC| |013FDE40006F20803750E7F4459F37A0CF9BD0E731F4791BFABC0D7D4E57A8F69C0| |C5D1376DC9E1CB808E6997D8AD972844F1F7CFAE1D30F9F7EF8449C3E7F38FFAE5D| |F02FF3F81E68315B9D3E982F49CC9724E64B12F3A50BF3257CE82342259E2F51A7D| |6EEB66B96F5EF77A3AD59571DEB9C63BDE058EB4D34EB3886B5E13F988942433F6D| |3AB514E6A3DF313BAFD0224E77BBCC796E3BF79298ABE0A8B3F72CFAC4408D92A95| |1C68EE8F293355617A91019DCE31F091E02F5| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
I've tried "rebuilding" this Tri-Form plan several times now, and this is pretty much the "best" I can come up with that doesn't resort to going Human Only. This is more of a "good enough" rather than a "perfection" type of build, as far as I'm concerned (in that it's "good enough" for just about anything at any level range, not just endgame or just TFs/SFs and the like). I keep wondering though if there's something that I could do radically different with the build as a Tri-Former PB that would be "just as good" without making *too many* sacrifices to achieve some sort of specialization which winds up compromising the entire build.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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That is all. |
Originally Posted by Redlynne
"WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!?"
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I thought to myself. I couldn't play that, but then that's it. The Peacebringer is a different entity to different people.
I need to have Dwarf to tank the snot out of as much as I can, so the taunt is 6 slotted and me likes my damage so its clear on that as yours is.
Then Nova Form, 3 blasts have a range of 100ft, I make them able to hit 120ft, by outranging much I minimise much of enemies dps on self whilst hurting them.
In human form I like to do damage with all my attacks too, if possible. Also once again the maligned Pulsar is excluded from your build but for me its lush, I'm effectively controlling mobs which could not just be for myself but for others too.
I have no doubt ya build is a fun toon, which is the important thing and ya can quite happily not die getting through a +3 ITF with some PuG. You've given yourself +regen which is helpful across all forms where as I gave myself less to get hit by.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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So are you talking about something more like *this* ...|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
I need to have Dwarf to tank the snot out of as much as I can, so the taunt is 6 slotted and me likes my damage so its clear on that as yours is.
Then Nova Form, 3 blasts have a range of 100ft, I make them able to hit 120ft, by outranging much I minimise much of enemies dps on self whilst hurting them. In human form I like to do damage with all my attacks too, if possible. Also once again the maligned Pulsar is excluded from your build but for me its lush, I'm effectively controlling mobs which could not just be for myself but for others too. |
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It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
If your build works for you, far be it from any of us to tell you otherwise. For what it's worth, I think your first build would make a decent cheapie build, though I'd personally use something with more SL defense (and still have perma hasten/LF), if I could.
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I don't think this response was warranted, though I suppose it's possible I'm misreading a tone.
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
... or were you planning on keeping me (and anyone else reading this thread) in suspense about the awesomeness of your (unpublished in this thread) build?
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Everytime I read someones words, there is sometimes a line I could take more than one way. It's so easy to get the wrong message from someone. I try to take the line in the best light possible and then merely add a +1 post to address it which may draw out more so I do get the correct tone.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
I don't think this response was warranted, though I suppose it's possible I'm misreading a tone.
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In this case I draw no conclusion.
First off, it is rare for me to post any build of mine. I shared my Sonic/Sonic build once which is a first in 5 years. It's just a rule, if I do, then its done via a PM. Two Headed Boy recently PM'd me his actually "awesome" build and I can not without his permission post it. He is like me. I am a black hole of secrets.
With my builds they suit me, they're what I am happy with doing. Redlynne may just as well look at mine think "I couldn't play that". None of my builds are what I think other people should play at all, we should all derive our own conclusions to what we need, be challenged and hopefully overcome any challenges on our own merit.
Lets say me and a whole team of khelds defeated Ghost Widow, no defeats our side. It's plausible, some people won't know how, some people would spend time saying pics or it didn't happen whilst some people would go 1+1=2, but we should all know that human form PB does -fly in its attacks, a PB can grp fly if it wanted, Novas can outrange Ghost Widow, Antagonize now does -range. The choice of how things might of been done are there.
My Peacebringer is designed to be the swiss army knife, the skeleton key to how things can be done in a world of other khelds building for other assets.
The fact I didn't post my build is nothing new, there is nothing "awesome" about it. It's just flexible, by being flexible its something I would play.
If Redlynnes build is a great build for Redlynne then great. There is no holy grail build that suits all.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
While all that is true, it also means that no one else can learn from the cleverness and insights you've discovered in your build, can't take the lessons you've learned, chop them up piecemeal and make use of them in their own builds in new and different combinations, and so on. No one (else) can use your experiences to make their own builds better, or learn from what you already know.
And that's a shame, really.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Perhaps you didn't quite understand what New Dawn was trying to say? Here, read this bit:|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
While all that is true, it also means that no one else can learn from the cleverness and insights you've discovered in your build, can't take the lessons you've learned, chop them up piecemeal and make use of them in their own builds in new and different combinations, and so on. No one (else) can use your experiences to make their own builds better, or learn from what you already know.
And that's a shame, really. |
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
With my builds they suit me, they're what I am happy with doing. Redlynne may just as well look at mine think "I couldn't play that". None of my builds are what I think other people should play at all, we should all derive our own conclusions to what we need, be challenged and hopefully overcome any challenges on our own merit.
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I would suggest making a mental list of what you want to do with your build, and then work to make that list possible via Mids'. If you can't make it happen, you can either ask for help getting another pair of eyes on it, or you can readjust priorities/expectations.
I swear there is just as much stupidity to my own builds as there is cleverness. People do like to do different things. What I may build is based on anticipation of rarely seen things whilst some people like to build based on something they do often like soloing an AV or a Rikti Pylon. There is no one build does all.....
Although using Two Headed Boys PB build which ya know he likes to keep private some small sacrifices can be made here and there to be not only good at its original intent but also be flexible to other intents.
I have 3 builds on me for purped up PBs using THB's initial build:
His initial build was great Human form, Dwarf to set mule, 45% def s/l and then perma LF and IL.
Iirc I sacrificed some AoE DPS for some control (Pulsar) and for some more Dwarf Tankiness and also to make the second build mirror his WS more. The damage sacrificed didn't take too much away from competing with the WS.
Then to make the third build I pinched some slots that could be got away with from sacrificing Pulsar to have a Nova what did good damage with min. 3 attacks from 120 ft away. Giving an Outranger.
That'll be 3 builds I can't post because the core of them is THBs ideas.
My build, what I play lacks in terms of DPS and defense for the sake of flexibility compared to THBs. I am not gonna purp a PB cos if anything I am more inclined to IO set other 50s (I have so many 50s I sell purps to IO set them all really). It was easier to work back from THBs and make some sacrifices to gain the same flexibilities as my PB but for two flexibilities I think.
So lets say there is this "State of the Art Build" that I might have it's "not the build I play" as there are no purps, its a modification of THBs as far as I can give you and without his permission to post it we are stuck on that note.
So just because I wouldn't play Redlynnes build doesn't mean I had a better one. If I do have an out and out good one then ya got to get THBs permission to see the core of it, or all 3 builds because that is what I would call nearer state of the art atm.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
That THB makes some sweet kheldian builds
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At the risk of sounding pedantic (and ungrateful), I *did* in fact read what New Dawn was saying. Since the entire point and focus of this thread since I started it is basically the question, "So what is everyone ELSE doing?" ... receiving back an answer of, "I'm not going to tell you!" isn't exactly useful.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Perhaps you didn't quite understand what New Dawn was trying to say?
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
I would suggest making a mental list of what you want to do with your build, and then work to make that list possible via Mids'. If you can't make it happen, you can either ask for help getting another pair of eyes on it, or you can readjust priorities/expectations.
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As any Mids' Jockey who has tried to deal with the Slot Crunch of building a "decent" Tri-Form Peacebringer knows, the major challenge is figuring out what trade-offs you want to make. What powers are you going to give up on getting? What powers are going to be less than optimally slotted (ie. less than 6)? What Sets do you use? How is does the build exchange "power" in one area for "power" in another? And so on and so forth.
These questions can only be answered in a holistic sense by being able to examine and cross compare entire builds, so that you can see the trade-offs being made and the weighting of value for different aspects to different purposes ... because with a Tri-Form Peacebringer, you can't HAVE IT ALL in a single build. You have to "compromise" somewhere on something to get advantages in different areas.
I had hoped that by "offering to go first" we could have a discussion on "where do we go from here" with Tri-Form Peacebringer builds, what their advantages are, what sorts of variations are possible ... and so on. Apparently, I'm the only person on this board who has any interest in this topic. No one else is willing to engage in a discussion on this topic that involves a "show your work" aspect to it so that everyone can learn from shared experience.
So I'm giving up on it.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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This has been of much amusement to me. How many people replied to you at all? Am I that bad a person? I thought I gave away enough clues as to what I do, enough to actually tell you without posting my build as there are several ways of achieving it should people want to achieve it. I have PVPed people and then told them what their build is like near enough myself. I really don't get the whole on the plate business. You could hate me but who else replied? Do you go on hating the world?|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
So I'm giving up on it.
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You can give up on it, I could of taken your last build and made it something nearer what I would like but with me alone replying to the thread pretty much that doesn't make for much of a sample choice.
3 Nova attacks can reach 120ft, this can be done in 3 slots each, trade off slotting something like Pulsar because many who 45% s/l skip Pulsar or something like Proton Scatter Human Form. Also when it comes to my Dwarf Form, I like to do dam and tank, Antagonize has 6 slots to do that well and there are great bonuses there. For me, I do that, one way, you can do it anyway ya like.
You're not the only person interested, you've been alienating someone else who as yet can't give you state of the art due to permissions. I never post my own builds but plenty of other peoples builds have been posted in this section over the past which is all useful for research. From past posts and suggestions you can keep on top, I do it with Tankers all the time.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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You do realize that us just throwing down our builds for you to see is basically just making/giving you a build, right? You can argue that it's not all you want, but any real difference would be semantics. What we are trying to do (fruitlessly, it seems) is give you recommendations/ideas without doing that. And frankly, it'd probably be pointless to throw our builds down for you, because mine (and probably New Dawns) has several sets of purples. Which is something you didn't want, according to your OP.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
And I'm not asking for "make *ME* a build to play" ... I'm asking for "what do YOU (all) do in the builds you want to play?" Apparently, no one else in this forum is inclined to "show their work" so that other people can benefit from their experiences (and not just myself). |
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
As any Mids' Jockey who has tried to deal with the Slot Crunch of building a "decent" Tri-Form Peacebringer knows, the major challenge is figuring out what trade-offs you want to make. What powers are you going to give up on getting? What powers are going to be less than optimally slotted (ie. less than 6)? What Sets do you use? How is does the build exchange "power" in one area for "power" in another? And so on and so forth.
These questions can only be answered in a holistic sense by being able to examine and cross compare entire builds, so that you can see the trade-offs being made and the weighting of value for different aspects to different purposes ... because with a Tri-Form Peacebringer, you can't HAVE IT ALL in a single build. You have to "compromise" somewhere on something to get advantages in different areas. I had hoped that by "offering to go first" we could have a discussion on "where do we go from here" with Tri-Form Peacebringer builds, what their advantages are, what sorts of variations are possible ... and so on. Apparently, I'm the only person on this board who has any interest in this topic. No one else is willing to engage in a discussion on this topic that involves a "show your work" aspect to it so that everyone can learn from shared experience. So I'm giving up on it. |
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In all of 5 mins I took what you did to and made changes to it to better suit me. Some of what I like including 3 attacks of Nova having 120ft range, Dwarf has taunt 6 slotted. Stuff that suits me.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
This isn't MY build, but I took your build and made some changes to it, with your restrictions in mind.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
As the title suggests ... what is the "state of the art" in building Tri-form Peacebringers? I'm seeing plenty of Human form PB builds getting posted (all loaded with perma-Hasten, perma-Inner Light and perma-Light Form), but pretty much nothing that involves Tri-Forming for Peacebringers of late. To make things even more ... "interesting" ... I'm seeing plenty of suggestions that being able to achieve over +45% S/L Defense *and* over +100% Global Recharge is somehow not only doable, but relatively simple. Even just using cursory examinations of build strategies in Mids' I'm having a hard time seeing how that combination is supposed to "work" in terms of slotting choices, since +Defense (specifically, Melee/Smash/Lethal) and +Recharge tend to NOT be grouped together in the same IO Sets.
So I'm wondering ... even though a whole lot of people are abandoning Nova and Dwarf form(s) for Peacebringers ... if we set aside the desire for "Human Only" what happens to be some serious Non-Purple IO recommendations for Tri-Form Peacebringer build strategies? Mids' data chunks will be excessively useful for talking about this sort of thing, since there's far to many "moving parts" in a holistic build strategy to NOT be able to look at everything together.