Why are EU players being ripped off buying Paragon Points?
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-11-27 05:28 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
It's because exchange rates changed between when EU subscriptions were introduced and PP were introduced.
It used to be that £9 was about $15, now £9 is less than $14. So people paying in pounds get a better deal on subscriptions, but a worse deal on points.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
Quote:
Well, at the moment its $15 = £9.70, and although the trend is for it to go *up*, for it to reach its *current* price it would have to go up to its highest point in 2 years (24th/27th January 2009 according to historical data from XE.com).|
Originally Posted by Mazey
It's because exchange rates changed between when EU subscriptions were introduced and PP were introduced.
It used to be that £9 was about $15, now £9 is less than $14. So people paying in pounds get a better deal on subscriptions, but a worse deal on points. |
So unfortunately that argument doesnt hold water...
*edit* to clarify, if the cost was set in the past... then it should have been cheaper than what EU players are currently playing... the currency conversion (for UK players at least) has only gotten worse in the past few months.
This isn't a comparison with exchange rates, though. US players get 400 points for 1/3 the cost of a month, EU players pay more than 1/3 of a month for the same number of points. It's probably not reasonable to expect prices to adjust every time the exchange rate shifts, but the ratios within each currency should be the same.
Quote:
Exactly the point i was trying to make... although i might have confused the point though.
|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
This isn't a comparison with exchange rates, though. US players get 400 points for 1/3 the cost of a month, EU players pay more than 1/3 of a month for the same number of points. It's probably not reasonable to expect prices to adjust every time the exchange rate shifts, but the ratios within each currency should be the same.
|
IIRC, NC Europe set the EU (£ and ) prices, not anyone in the US. They just charge what they're told to.
This issue should be passed to NC Europe to adjudicate.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Quote:
You're completely missing my point.|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Well, at the moment its $15 = £9.70, and although the trend is for it to go *up*, for it to reach its *current* price it would have to go up to its highest point in 2 years (24th/27th January 2009 according to historical data from XE.com).
So unfortunately that argument doesnt hold water... *edit* to clarify, if the cost was set in the past... then it should have been cheaper than what EU players are currently playing... the currency conversion (for UK players at least) has only gotten worse in the past few months. |
The reason subs are £9 while points are £10.20 isn't because the points are prices higher than they'd like, but because the subs are priced lower than they'd like.
Subs were priced when exchange rates were much better, so they got priced at £8.99, if they were pricing subs today, then they'd be priced at £10.20, just like points are.
The difference is because we're getting a better deal on subs than we "should", not because we're being charged more for points than we "should".
As for why points are cost more here than in the USA? You said it yourself: Sales tax.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
Quote:
Doenst hold, as you would have had to go to before the game launched in the US for the currency ratio to be the same. |
Originally Posted by Mazey
You're completely missing my point.
The reason subs are £9 while points are £10.20 isn't because the points are prices higher than they'd like, but because the subs are priced lower than they'd like. Subs were priced when exchange rates were much better, so they got priced at £8.99, if they were pricing subs today, then they'd be priced at £10.20, just like points are. |
Following the similar pricing structure of other MMO's i *can* get behind.
If they were *following* that method, then £9.70 would have been the "fair" price for 1200 points (hell, even cheaper when you take into consideration that this is going on todays rate, it was better when the game launched)
Quote:
|
The difference is because we're getting a better deal on subs than we "should", not because we're being charged more for points than we "should". As for why points are cost more here than in the USA? You said it yourself: Sales tax. |
It was (up until recent years) 17.5%... but for the period of 1st december 2008 to 31st December 2009 it was dropped to 15% (there was *NO* decrease in sub fee for that period).
It then returned to 17.5% on 1st January 2010.
One year later (4th Janurary 2011) it was increased to 20%. Once again, no increase in sub fee.
If they were basing the price according to VAT rates, then the *subscription* fee should have increased and decreased accordingly (I have noticed the the *other* superhero MMO does this, so the price you see is *not* the price you pay (try £10.80/month instead)... Not to mention as well that the EU rate of 12.99 covers a wide range (between 15% and 25%) of different rates for VAT/Sales Tax, and yet AFAIK the price doesnt change for them either.
You cant even throw the "but it was fairer then for rates".... If it *was* fairer, then the UK players (at least) would have been paying £8.10 for their equivelent subscription fee. The market rate however was £8.99/month.
The *closest* point to the launch of the game as to which the $14.99 was close to the £8.99 coversion, was in november 2003, which was before the launch of the game in the US. Since the launch of the game the rates have changed obviously.
So, once again, why are EU account holders being charged *more* in relation to their Subscription fee to get Paragon Points. Because once you remove the "currency conversion" and VAT increase... the numbers still dont balance up
At *no* point in the few preceeding months to the launch of Freedom has the UK/US currency ratio been similar enough to warrant the price difference (either including or excluding VAT)
So is this purely a case of "well we cannot change the rate of which we charge subscribers in terms of Sub fee, but instead we will over charge them for points?"
Quote:
Yes, that's what I've been saying.|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
So is this purely a case of "well we cannot change the rate of which we charge subscribers in terms of Sub fee, but instead we will over charge them for points?"
|
Except that $15 is current £9.72. Add 20% VAT and you get £11.66, not £10.20.
So it's a case of "we cannot change the rate of which we charge subscribers in terms of Sub fee, but instead we will over charge them for points?", apart from the fact they're still under charging us for points, just not as much as they're under charging us for subs.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
Quote:
Should point out that the $15 is including *all applicable* taxes (i believe that New Jersey is an exception to this as it has an additional charge on top)|
Originally Posted by Mazey
Yes, that's what I've been saying.
Except that $15 is current £9.72. Add 20% VAT and you get £11.66, not £10.20. So it's a case of "we cannot change the rate of which we charge subscribers in terms of Sub fee, but instead we will over charge them for points?", apart from the fact they're still under charging us for points, just not as much as they're under charging us for subs. |
So surely that would mean that the points should cost £9.72... and not £10.20....
Well, I don't know enough to dispute that, so I'll assume it's true.
That still means we get subscriptions 73p cheaper and points 48p more expensive.
Seems like a net gain to me.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
Quote:
$15 does not include all applicable taxes in all states. Any player in a state that has an NCsoft presence is also charged local sales tax. I live in Seattle, Washington; Arenanet (NCsoft holding) is in the same building as my fiance's workplace. I pay 9.95% tax on top of my purchases because that's the local sales tax. So that $15 purchase would be about $16.50 or so for me.
|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Should point out that the $15 is including *all applicable* taxes (i believe that New Jersey is an exception to this as it has an additional charge on top)
|
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Quote:
I wasnt *too* sure exactly how it worked exactly, but i did know that there were exceptions to the general rule though. Thanks for clarifying
|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
$15 does not include all applicable taxes in all states. Any player in a state that has an NCsoft presence is also charged local sales tax. I live in Seattle, Washington; Arenanet (NCsoft holding) is in the same building as my fiance's workplace. I pay 9.95% tax on top of my purchases because that's the local sales tax. So that $15 purchase would be about $16.50 or so for me.
|
SHHHHHH dont rock the boat they might charge us more,and I,m quite happy with what I pay,plus I do not but stuff very often 
Prof Radburn controller,Celtic Ice Maiden,blaster,Miss Knockout scrapper,Mistress Davina controller,Stone Hart,tank Split Personality PB.Queen Lostris controller,Fridgid Mary blaster,Shocking Fire blaster Future Elfling defender, Little Weed controller,Capo Angelo MM, Commander Buzzsaw MM, Justice Tank tank all 50,s
Quote:
Similarly, subscribers in California and Texas are charged tax as well due to NCSoft holdings such as Paragon Studios in Mountain View, California and NCSoft US offices in Austin, Texas.
|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
$15 does not include all applicable taxes in all states. Any player in a state that has an NCsoft presence is also charged local sales tax. I live in Seattle, Washington; Arenanet (NCsoft holding) is in the same building as my fiance's workplace. I pay 9.95% tax on top of my purchases because that's the local sales tax. So that $15 purchase would be about $16.50 or so for me.
|
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Yep, the question is the title of the thread.
In the Unofficial Superpacks thread (which i do admit to derailling, and for that i am sorry, heat of the moment and all that stuff), i brought up something that some people *didnt* agree with.
That is that the *fastest* route for EU account holders to get Reward tokens is also the most expensive... and not just by $0.01 like US account holders.
Points Bonus Total $US €EU £UK Tokens
400 ____ 400 $5.00 €4,80 £3.40 0*
1200 120 1320 $15.00 €14,40 £10.20 1*
4000 600 4600 $50.00 €48,00 £34.00 3*
8000 1600 9600 $100.00 €96,00 £68.00 8
Subscription fee costs:
US player : $14.99
UK player : £8.99
EU player : €12.99
A player can buy their way up the Paragon Rewards tree by buying Paragon Points. You get one for every 1200 points you purchase.
Using the most expensive conversion ratio of bulk 400 point purchases and single month subscription the numbers are as follows.
For an US player its $15.00/$14.99
For an UK player its £10.20/£8.99
For an EU player its €14.99/€12.99
These are the most *expensive* routes, and even then, the US players pay just $0.01 (that is 1 cent) more to buy their way up the tree.
A player from the UK pays 13.45% more to buy their way up the tree.
An EU account holder from the EU pays 15.39% more to buy their way up the tree...
A US account holder pays 0.00067% more to buy their way up the tree.
What can be used to account for this?
It cannot be VAT/sales tax increases, as the sub fee hasnt increased from the launch of the game (we have had 2 VAT changes in the UK in the past few years).
So *whose* smart idea was it to rip off the EU account holders like this?
Hell, once you start getting up to buying enough points to get 11 reward tokens, you end up having paid for 12 months subscription fee.
And because the Tokens are not being awarded up front for multimonth subscriptions, the EU account holders are getting ripped off, by having to pay *more* in terms of equivelent fees than the US account holders.
*edit* table didnt appear correctly!