real numbers difference on epic Fireball vs Ball lightning for scrappers?
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...SSSOOO glad you asked this question...|
Originally Posted by pearofpance1
Been told that ball Light is better, but mids is wrong about it, anyone know what the actual damage differences are in real numbers?
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in game, type [Ball Lightning]
This will create a link for you that give detailed power info. Be aware, it's not always accurate and numbers are AT dependent.
Do the same thing for [Fire Ball]
Assuming this numbers are right,
Fire Ball = 34.62
Ball Lightning = 63.81
There a bit more to this though. Fire Ball does more damage initially up front with a weak tick afterwards. Ball Lightning does little damage up front but has a strong tick afterwards. This should factor into your decision.
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wow. the difference looks huge.. ball light is 11.59 initially (im only lvl 25 atm) +4x 6.95 so +20.80 making it 32.39
fireball is 15.45+ 2.58 smashing then 3 ticks at 80% chance of 1.72 making it just 23.19?!
holy cow. That difference seems way bigger then it ought to be considering fireball is generally supposed to be the damage winner (and the fact that you get Ball light sooner- pick 2 rather then pick 3 so it requires less power picks to obtain!)
What the heck?
is this right? Is there a "ask a dev" button somewhere? =-D
So Mid's is totally wrong?
Ball Lightning = 95.72 total @ 50
Fire Ball = 142.3 total @ 50
That takes the crit chance into account but unless Mid's is completely bonkers the values should be about that. I know for a fact that on Brutes Fireball does more damage than Ball Lightning, since I have both on dual builds.
apparently it's ONLY borked for scrappers. Which seems like a dev mistake more then a feature.
on my level 50 scrapper the difference is still there just bigger.
Fireball average 34.6
4.17 smashing
25.02 fire
3 ticks of 80% 2.78 fire damage
Ball light average 63.81
18.77 nrg
4 ticks at 11.26
I think you guys are looking at the wrong powers. Remember, typing [Power Name] into chat can give you the wrong version of the power if there's a power with the same name in more than one set. [Fire Ball] gives you a power from Fire Mastery, while scrappers use Blaze Mastery. Similarly, [Ball Lightning] shows you a power that has a taunt component, which suggests that it's the tank or brute version.
I don't have a scrapper with patron pools unlocked, so I can't get the stats for Ball Lightning, but in-game, the level 50 scrapper version of Fire Ball does:
12.51 smashing
43.79 fire
3 ticks of 80% chance for 6.26 fire
...which is exactly what Mids says in the more detailed damage display. The average damage is incorrect because it seems to be counting in an extra hit, like what a stalker would get critting from hide or something.
You can see this in the respec screen, or by typing [Blaze Mastery.Fire Ball].
Since Mids is right on Fire Ball, I'm going to guess that the detailed display is also right about Ball Lightning, namely that it does an initial tick of 18.77 and then 4 ticks of 11.26.
This means that, not counting crits, and before enhancements/buffs, Fire Ball does an average of 68.52 and Ball Lightning does 63.81.
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While this seems more realistic, something is still wonky in Mid's.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
This means that, not counting crits, and before enhancements/buffs, Fire Ball does an average of 68.52 and Ball Lightning does 63.81.
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When slotted, Mid's tells me Fire Ball does 293 damage while Ball Lightning does 197. That seems like a HUGE difference for two powers that do comparable damage.
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Right, that's because you're looking at the average damage. The average damage displayed is incorrect, but if you mouse over it you'll get a breakdown of that damage into its component hits, which appears to be accurate. Although it doesn't seem to show Ball Lightning's crits.
If the damage in a power seems wrong (especially an APP power), hit Ctl+D to bring up a window with more details (same level of detail as City of Data). In MIDs 0.951, Blaze Mastery / Fire Ball does the following:
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[edit: Orange numbers are what I believe to be base damage (no crits, etc). Yellow numbers are what are getting factored into the average damage on mouse over.]|
12.51 Smashing Damage to Target(to Critters) 43.79 Fire Damage to Target (to Critters) 56.31 Fire Damage to Target (5% chance) 56.31 Fire Damage to Target (10% chance, to Critters) 11.57 Smashing Damage to Target (to Players) 46.27 Fire Damage to Target (to Players) 57.83 Fire Damage to Target (5% chance, to Players) 3 x6.26 Fire Damage to Target over 2.1 seconds (80% chance, after 0.5 seconds) 37.18 Fire Damage to Target (to Players, if Assassination) 62.56 Fire Damage to Target (to Critters, if Assassination) 37.18 Fire Damage to Target (to Players) 37.18 Fire Damage to Target (20% chance, to Players) 0 Fire Damage to Target (to Critters) 62.56 Fire Damage to Target (to Critters) |
Yet MID's damage when just hovering over the power is:
Quote:
| Smashing (12.51) + Fire(114.8 + 5x3) = 142.3 |
Smashing (12.51) is pretty simple - it's just the normal PVE damage.
Fire(114.8 + 5x3) is a bit more complicated.
5x3 = 3 x6.26 * 0.8
Fire dot averaged out by 80%
114.8 = 43.79 + (56.31*0.05) + (56.31*0.10) + 62.56
This is normal fire damage, 5% and 10% averaged crits, and the (erroneous?) 62.56 fire damage at the bottom of the detailed window.
As much as I like the program, MIDs does have a history of getting APP damage incorrect for ATs that can 'crit' (Scrappers, Stalkers, and Controllers).
Sarrate is correct. I don't know what mids is on about, but city of data accurately identifies fireball's average damage as scale 1.14, and ball lightning's as 1.02. As seen here: http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...etype.php?at=5
There have been a handful of examples where city of data does not give the proper damage values for a power, but by and large it's the best resource that I'm aware of. It beats in-game real numbers easily and apparently it also beats mids.
Been told that ball Light is better, but mids is wrong about it, anyone know what the actual damage differences are in real numbers?