With PvP Sets, they have an extra set of Bonuses that function in a PvP setting.
The Damage Proc is not an effect of the Set's bonuses. It happens if it is the only IO of that Set that is slotted. It does have an extra 10% to go off in PvP, though.
See here: paragonwiki.com/wiki/Gladiator's_Strike:_Chance_for_Smashing_Damage
What makes it more expensive is that it's useful outside of PvP and yet has the rarity of a PvP IO. Other PvP sets have dropped in price because for non-PvPers, the bonuses of PvP Sets isn't outsdanding: they don't have the high Defense or Recharge that most non-PvPers build for. But the handful of PvP Procs which are useful outside of PvP are still very expensive.
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The only real difference is the proc rate is 20% in PvE and 33% in PvP. PvP IOs have a second set of bonuses that only apply while PvPing but that doesn't really account for the higher price. The sole reason for the higher price is how common it is. Even if there's less demand for the Glad Strike proc than other melee damage procs, the Glad Strike proc has significantly less supply due to dropping only from PvP kills (and even when PvP farming the drop rate is abysmal). It's the same reason the Steadfast Res/Def is relatively cheap and the Gladiator's Armor +3% def regularly sells off-market for above the inf cap.
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Originally Posted by Prime313
I'm trying to account for the price difference between a Gladiator's Strike damage proc and other melee ones.
As I understand it, not too many people pvp in this game, so I didn't see how the huge price difference could be explained by pvp demand alone. (I admit I could be very wrong here) What I'm wondering is if the pve and pvp procs function the same in pve content or if they work differently. I searched the forums but I could only find general information on damage procs. |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
What Mac said. Basically, anyone who does want this for PvP purposes is going to have to pay more for it just because there aren't very many for sale compared to most melee damage sets that drop in PvE. The supply is very low, and the market rewards whoever has the largest bid out with the purchase. So even if not many people are buying those hard-to-obtain PvP drop goods, the ones that do are still motivated to bid high, to try and make sure they get what they are looking for when it comes along.
Looking at the set's bonuses, I would be a bit surprised if anyone making a PvE-centric build would be forking out higher costs for pieces of this set.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Thanks for the help all, just didn't expect PVP demand to be high enough to command those prices, so I was curious if there was a pve reason driving demand.
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In most cases of high-priced items on the market, demand is just as much to blame as supply for the price, but in the case of most PvP IO pieces it's more the supply side than the demand. There's probably a very small demand for the proc among the playerbase as a whole (higher among the PvP population but I doubt that's significant enough to have a large impact) but supply is extremely low.
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Originally Posted by Prime313
Thanks for the help all, just didn't expect PVP demand to be high enough to command those prices, so I was curious if there was a pve reason driving demand.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by macskull
In most cases of high-priced items on the market, demand is just as much to blame as supply for the price, but in the case of most PvP IO pieces it's more the supply side than the demand. There's probably a very small demand for the proc among the playerbase as a whole (higher among the PvP population but I doubt that's significant enough to have a large impact) but supply is extremely low.
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You'd have to be pretty dumb to pay this price as a PVE player, given that there are perfect substitutes from a pve perspective. The low supply impacts the price for pvp players yes, but there has to be a significant demand. Just because it has low supply does not mean it commands a high price... there are plenty of examples out there. [unless we accept the conspicuous consumption hypothesis]
If you had only one of a good but no one wanted it, the price would not be high.
Incidentally, the price has dropped about 300 million since I posted this. 33 for sale, which isn't much worse than a lot of other IO's, although still too much given all the pve substitutes.
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Remember, there doesn't have to actually be that much demand in terms of volume.|
Originally Posted by Prime313
Thanks for the help all, just didn't expect PVP demand to be high enough to command those prices, so I was curious if there was a pve reason driving demand.
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Imagine that, because all the PvE substitutes, all the PvE players are actually ignoring this piece. That means that the bid competition is only PvP players. That still doesn't preclude them from competing, even just among themselves, with bids in a way that leads to comparatively high prices.
All it takes is a small number of players with enough money on hand who want this item relatively frequently to set a high market price. As you have already noticed, though, this situation is unstable for small demand populations. A small population of bidders is more subject to abrupt bid threshold shifts, as its more likely that a majority of people in it might randomly all stop placing new bids at the old (high) price, which causes the price the market will bear to find some new, lower threshold.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I dunno if I'd say perfect substitutes.|
Originally Posted by Prime313
You'd have to be pretty dumb to pay this price as a PVE player, given that there are perfect substitutes from a pve perspective. The low supply impacts the price for pvp players yes, but there has to be a significant demand. Just because it has low supply does not mean it commands a high price... there are plenty of examples out there. [unless we accept the conspicuous consumption hypothesis]
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Kinetic Combat is only chance for knockdown and it's abysmally low price compared to the rest of the set shows how useful/popular that is.
Touch of death only has a 15% chance to go off instead of 20% like all the others.
Mako is lethal and the highest resisted damage type in the game, especially at the end game.
Then you have hecatomb which is vastly superior, with a 33% chance to fire, increased damage and negative energy as its type.
So, it is an above average proc, I'd say the second best after hecatomb of the options. But it's not 300m better than Mako or touch of death. If it was priced comparable to mako/TOD, I would choose it every time I didn't need the defense bonus. But for 300m, I'll just look at it and say, "not today".
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Don't the PvP damage procs do 'moderate' damage (i/e, the purple proc level of damage) instead of 'minor' damage like the normal PvE damage procs? even in PvE zones?
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No, they use the same scale 0.67 damage as regular procs (about 71.75 points at level 50).
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
Don't the PvP damage procs do 'moderate' damage (i/e, the purple proc level of damage) instead of 'minor' damage like the normal PvE damage procs? even in PvE zones?
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Oh wow. So unless your going for the PvE set bonuses, (which only a few have decent ones) the proc itself isn't really worth the investment.
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Originally Posted by macskull
No, they use the same scale 0.67 damage as regular procs (about 71.75 points at level 50).
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The only notable exception, in my opinion, is the Gladiatior's Javelin proc. It's the only damage proc available for a "Ranged Damage" set outside of the purple Apocalypse proc (which, of course, you can only slot one of). If you ranged attacks don't have some secondary effect that has a damage proc in one of its sets, such as if you use Fire Blast, there's no non-purple damage proc you can use at all.|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Oh wow. So unless your going for the PvE set bonuses, (which only a few have decent ones) the proc itself isn't really worth the investment.
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Combine that with the exotic damage type, and it helps explain why the Javelin proc is quite so expensive as it is. I certainly find the going prices not worth my while, but I can understand how they might have come about.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Yup, I agree that one has a purpose. But the melee one not as much.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
The only notable exception, in my opinion, is the Gladiatior's Javelin proc. It's the only damage proc available for a "Ranged Damage" set outside of the purple Apocalypse proc (which, of course, you can only slot one of). If you ranged attacks don't have some secondary effect that has a damage proc in one of its sets, such as if you use Fire Blast, there's no non-purple damage proc you can use at all.
Combine that with the exotic damage type, and it helps explain why the Javelin proc is quite so expensive as it is. I certainly find the going prices not worth my while, but I can understand how they might have come about. |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I'm trying to account for the price difference between a Gladiator's Strike damage proc and other melee ones.
As I understand it, not too many people pvp in this game, so I didn't see how the huge price difference could be explained by pvp demand alone. (I admit I could be very wrong here)
What I'm wondering is if the pve and pvp procs function the same in pve content or if they work differently. I searched the forums but I could only find general information on damage procs.