I think I made a good ice/dark build.


Finduilas

 

Posted

I think I made a really excellent build. Though it's hard for me to believe I made exactly what I wanted, so here, take a look at this.

I wanted:

  • capped on SLEN from level 25+ running only the main toggles and CJ. [though I keep Maneuvers in my pocket in case I need it.]
  • SS+Stealth IO and Rec Friend
  • Vengeance
  • Permahasten, which I came 16 seconds short of, or 6 if I do total core spiritual T3.
Do not want:
  • the fighting pool
  • sets that do nothing but the bonus [Zephyr, etc]
  • nerfed attacks
I'd like to get Multi-strikes in icicles for the endurance reduction rather than the CB/Erad mix, but I can't see any way to keep the EN at 45 if I move it.

Comments and criticisms more than welcome.

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And for reference, what I currently run at level 40

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Posted

If you want permaHasten you should just take the much (MUCH) easier route to softcapping your build with the Fighting pool. FYI, the recharge numbers for Hasten you see in Mids is skewed because it does not take into account the time that gets added back on past the 120s mark when Hasten drops. In reality it's even closer to 130s or so.

You've used all those slots and IOs to attain your defense and for what? Just some defense and recovery/end? Meanwhile, other powers are horribly underslotted (EA, Hoarfrost, SD, and DC).

Granted, DC isn't really necessary unless you plan on using all of your toggles all of the time.

SL should really be frankenslotted to get the most out of it as a heal and an attack.

I think you're pretty light on the Acc in your attacks.

Since you want ss/recall and level 25 softcapped, is this supposed to be an exemplar TF/SF build of some sort? If that is the case, you should probably take ss/recall much sooner.

Not saying it's a bad build, just 'limited'.


SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)

 

Posted

The attacks are slotted roughly how I have them now and I do just fine. I wanted a little more oomph on Siphon and Icicles as Herostats indicates that they're my heavy hitters. Icicles especially, making up 3/7ths of my damage, though that was on a massively overpopulated and level glitched CoT thing.

I'm running EN at 32 right now and doing fine. My fire hole isn't noticeable. I'm guessing that most fire has smashing with it, though that makes no sense.

SS+Stealth and RF are ones that I never take. My tank-stealth is just running through everything. I even keep my aggro toggles on, it doesn't really matter.

Re: Permahasten. I've got it on my main blaster. Within 1 or 2 seconds without Spiritual slotted and a six second overlap with. I can't tell the difference because in combat I don't stop attacking when it autos up. The permahasten was just gravy in any case.

I don't understand why you're saying EA is underslotted. It's up every 21 seconds and with only four guys around me I get 91% of my end back. I'll fire it when there's only 1/3 of my end is left, which rarely happens.

Three guys'll get me 92% off Dark Cons. Granted it's only every 71 seconds, but I never use it. It's not bound to a key, I actually have to click it. I have used it once, I think. I should drop it, but I'm keeping it for the same reason I'm keeping Maneuvers, paranoia. I don't need Maneuvers, but I'm putting the LotG 7.5 there anyway.

Hoarfrost is not underslotted. I'm not even going to debate that.

I don't see how Soul Drain is underslotted. I can't up the damage buff, and that's all I care about there. I tend to use it as an aggro tool. The teams I run with melt everything around me pretty fast. If I pug, well, that's another story. That's when the three self heals and three end recovery tools come into play.

Not sure why you say my stuff is "horribly" underslotted and I'd really like suggestions and maybe your modifications to my build. Drop whatever you want, but I'm not taking boxing, tough makes no sense on this build, and I don't want to waste the end for tough and weave either. I'm capped w/o them, w/o Maneuvers even.

Rather than limited, I see this as a jack-of-all trades. And the current as-built up there, it pretty much can't die. I'm thinking ice/dark is along the lines of kat/wp in the scrappers, if you die, you made a big mistake.

Thanks much for the comments. I know I don't agree or can't see your point, but I need that. I really like this toon. It's the first tank I've taken past 30.


 

Posted

The defense in EA is underslotted. Doesn't really matter for you until you start running iTrials, though. If you had more defense from EA you'd be able to hit the iSoftcap with Maneuvers up with 10 targets. In addition to that, slotting for more endmod and recharge allows EA to become a sapping tool, which can prevent mobs from using their stronger attacks. Just another layer of mitigation you can utilize but really only works with more recharge.

Considering you don't cap your HP with Hoarfrost up - even with Accolades - I'd say it's underslotted. Perhaps 'horribly' was a bit strong.

My main point was that you didn't have to go about 6 slotting half the build to get defense bonuses. Ice Armor is pretty easy to softcap - needing only 2 different attack sets for ~2.5% defense to s/l/e/n - if you go tough/weave. Since you're adamant about not taking those, then you've done alright with your build.

Minor quibble - Hibernate just needs a common Heal IO. Recharge does absolutely nothing for you because of the NoPhase when you use it.

Here's an Ice/Dm build I made some time ago (I didn't have access to it at the time of my other post).

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SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)

 

Posted

[Edit: I combined two posts of mine here, so it may not flow well and skip from topic to topic. The double posting was just plain bad.]

Yeah, your hoarfrost slotting is really good. A definite change. I slot this way on my MA/Inv scrapper.

I don't understand the no-recharge thing on Hibernate. It's my main go-to for heal and recovery when things get bad [meaning I'm getting hammered and Hoarfrost is recharging.] I think of it as a phased Rest.

Defense slotting: I'm doing the Red Fortune + LotG7.5 slotting based on what I've read. I've never done that before. It's a 12.5% global rech, but I do love the LotG bonuses. The RF is a cheap test, but takes a respec to get out due to the six slots.

Tough just looks like a mule here. 23% on S/L might help with some super accurate AV or something. I haven't seen that situation yet. I think I might be being a little overzealous about the avoidance of the fighting pool. I'm just seeing the set bonuses come so easy.

Nucleous...I'll have to check the cash on those. I actually prefer my current slotting of Siphon Life, with the four Haymakers [switchable to KC if I needed to] and the two Theft of Essence. Siphon is my main damage after my damage aura. I'm always wary of Hamis, except Centriole, which I actually own a bucketful I'll probably never use.

Why do I care about defense in EA if I'm capped to SLEN? To partially plug that fire hole?

Yeah...I gotta mess with my Soul Drain. Damage is good. And I do fire this alot.

And let me say I'm really pleased that my slotting all lv 27 IOs isn't getting criticized. I've been running a lot of Ouro and initially showing up and seeing my capped tank running at 26 SL is a big shock.


 

Posted

I also have an Ice tanker without the fighting pool, and I don't really miss it. No doubt it's easier to softcap defense with Weave, but Weave is not necessary, and Tough is even less useful for an Ice Tanker. What it comes down to is, do you want to waste power picks to get Weave or waste slots to softcap without Weave. Both approaches have their pros and cons.

My one suggestion is to take all the extra slots in Chilling Embrace and move them somewhere where you can still have a S/L set bonus, but also more directly useful enhancement bonuses. CE doesn't benefit much from being slotted up heavily; it is fine right out of the box. My preference would be to move those three slots to Soul Drain-- you could six-slot SD with Obliteration and have CE with just a generic End Redux IO. You'd get better overall offense and defense without giving up anything important.

Quote:
I'm running EN at 32 right now and doing fine. My fire hole isn't noticeable. I'm guessing that most fire has smashing with it, though that makes no sense.
Life gets a lot harder for a Tanker after 40 without Energy softcapped. Before 40 you don't really need it, unless you fight Arachnos a lot. I leveled to 50 without anything soft-capped (before EA) and mostly SOs. My secret was slotting up EA for defense.


 

Posted

Okay waitasec.

You're on a TANK.

Why in the name of BOB are you taking the Leadership pool over the fighting pool?

You've spent all this money and tons of slots on set bonuses that become largely irrelevant with tough/weave.

This is an incomplete (and badly arranged) rework somewhere along the lines of what you were doing but replacing the leadership pool.
Don't follow it EXACTLY, but try to take note of what I have done and the repercussions of it.

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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

OK, looking at this and that as far as advice goes and, yes, taking the fighting pool made slotting my other powers much easier. I put off Permafrost for a long time, but the extra 20% resist to slow isn't such a big deal sine we've got the 60% from Glacial Armor.

I'm pushing CJ much further back than I'd like, but I'm also not needing it for defense.

Here's the PostaguHyperInfiniTigress hybrid. I know it probably doesn't fit any of your playstyles, but it patches up the faults I had. Most notably Hoarfrost and the Fighting pool.

Oh, and I took Leadership because Vengeance is a massive, super, ultimate power for the team. And while Maneuvers is puny, I only needed puny and it shares it with everyone.

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Posted

Quote:
I don't understand the no-recharge thing on Hibernate. It's my main go-to for heal and recovery when things get bad [meaning I'm getting hammered and Hoarfrost is recharging.] I think of it as a phased Rest.
The game code doesn't allow anyone to become "phased" again after coming out of a phase power for 120 seconds. This is the NoPhase rule. For that reason, even though you can slot Recharge in Hibernate, it doesn't actually do anything.

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Nophase

If you slap a generic heal IO in there instead, you can jump back in the fight a few seconds sooner.


 

Posted

Postagulous, the new build is better, but I think your slotting still leaves something to be desired.

First of all, you've got four wasted slots in FA and GA. IMO, the recharge bonuses in Red Fortune are not worth sucking up four slots that would give you more benefit elsewhere. Yes, that means you'll have to respec, but I think it would definitely be worth it.

Other issues:

If you replace the Heal/End/Rchg in Doctored Wounds for the Recharge, you'll be very close to the ED cut-off for both Heal and Recharge.

I agree that Energy Absorption is very underslotted. More defense would be useful there in case of defense debuffs, or if you're facing foes that have a higher base ToHit. I'd add two to three slots to EA and slot it as close to the ED cut-off as possible for Defense, End Mod and Recharge.

Siphon Life is a high damage attack; I'd slot it with more damage and end reduction than you have currently.

Many of your attacks and toggles are underslotted for end reduction. Believe me, you don't want to be *that* reliant on EA. Specifically:

Use the same slotting in Smite that you have in Shadow Punch. Recharge will be a little less, but at least you'll have sufficient end reduction.

Use the Aegis Res/End/Rchg in Tough instead of the Res/Rchg. I'd also use at least level 30s instead of 25s...how often are you going to respec below level 25 anyway?

Shadow Maul has no end reduction at all, which is not good. I'd use the following slotting: Erad Dam, Dam/Rchg, Acc/Dam/End/Rchg; CB Acc/Dam, Dam/End, Acc/Rchg.

FYI, the Kismet +Acc will only be active if the power its slotted in is active. I'd put it in one of the Ice defense toggles or CJ and add a LotG Def/End/Rchg to Weave so it has sufficient end reduction.

I'd use three Erad in Soul Drain--you might as well get the defense bonus. It could stand to be slotted more heavily for damage as well.

As others have said, the recharge IO in Hibernate is not doing anything for you; replace it with End Mod or Heal.

Looking at your Stamina slotting, there is absolutely no reason to slot lower level common IOs unless you're at the ED cut-off already. Replace the lower level common with 50s.

Here's a rework of your build; I left one slot available to use in whatever you take at 49 if you wish.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!
Toro Frio: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:27(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:27(3), LkGmblr-Def:27(3), LkGmblr-Rchg+:27(5)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:27(A), KntkC'bat-Knock%:28(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:28(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:27(9), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg:27(11), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx:27(11)
Level 2: Smite -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:27(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:30(5), KntkC'bat-Knock%:30(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:27(13), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx:30(13), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg:30(15)
Level 4: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I:25(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), Ksmt-ToHit+:30(15)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:30(17), RechRdx-I:50(23)
Level 12: Hoarfrost -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(25), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(27), Dct'dW-Heal:50(27)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:40(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(31), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(31)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:27(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:27(33), LkGmblr-Def:27(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+:27(33), Empty(34)
Level 20: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:30(23), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:30(40), Aegis-ResDam:30(36)
Level 22: Icicles -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:27(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:27(36), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(37), Erad-%Dam:30(40), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 24: Shadow Maul -- C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg:27(A), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg:27(37), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx:27(39), Erad-Dmg:27(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:27(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:27(40)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:27(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:30(34), LkGmblr-Def:30(36), Efficacy-EndMod:50(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:30(43)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(42), Erad-Dmg:30(43), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(48), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:50(48)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:35(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:30(34), LkGmblr-Def:35(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:35(50)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 35: Taunt -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg:30(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx:30(43), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg:30(45), P'ngFist-Acc/Dmg:25(45), P'ngFist-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:25(45), P'ngFist-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:25(46)
Level 41: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth:50(A)
Level 44: Recall Friend -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 47: Permafrost -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Aegis-ResDam:50(50), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:30(50)
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 50: Spiritual Total Core Revamp
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:33(A), Mrcl-Heal:40(17), RgnTis-Regen+:30(19), Heal-I:40(19)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:24(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

  • 10.5% Defense(Smashing)
  • 10.5% Defense(Lethal)
  • 9.25% Defense(Fire)
  • 9.25% Defense(Cold)
  • 13% Defense(Energy)
  • 13% Defense(Negative)
  • 3% Defense(Psionic)
  • 6.75% Defense(Melee)
  • 8% Defense(Ranged)
  • 6.13% Defense(AoE)
  • 3.6% Max End
  • 4% Enhancement(Heal)
  • 27% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 42.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 161.6 HP (8.63%) HitPoints
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 11%
  • MezResist(Sleep) 3.85%
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
  • 5% (0.08 End/sec) Recovery
  • 74% (5.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 1.26% Resistance(Fire)
  • 1.26% Resistance(Cold)
  • 10% RunSpeed


Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

I fixed the hibernate and the reason those common IOs are lower level is this was just modifications of my as-built exported via the Titan Sentinel [or whatever it's called now.]

No time to do some serious revamping now, but thanks Find, and everyone else. I've had such an easy time with the End so far that I started not worrying about slotting for it much.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postagulous View Post
[Edit: I combined two posts of mine here, so it may not flow well and skip from topic to topic. The double posting was just plain bad.]

Yeah, your hoarfrost slotting is really good. A definite change. I slot this way on my MA/Inv scrapper.

I don't understand the no-recharge thing on Hibernate. It's my main go-to for heal and recovery when things get bad [meaning I'm getting hammered and Hoarfrost is recharging.] I think of it as a phased Rest.

Defense slotting: I'm doing the Red Fortune + LotG7.5 slotting based on what I've read. I've never done that before. It's a 12.5% global rech, but I do love the LotG bonuses. The RF is a cheap test, but takes a respec to get out due to the six slots.

Tough just looks like a mule here. 23% on S/L might help with some super accurate AV or something. I haven't seen that situation yet. I think I might be being a little overzealous about the avoidance of the fighting pool. I'm just seeing the set bonuses come so easy.

Nucleous...I'll have to check the cash on those. I actually prefer my current slotting of Siphon Life, with the four Haymakers [switchable to KC if I needed to] and the two Theft of Essence. Siphon is my main damage after my damage aura. I'm always wary of Hamis, except Centriole, which I actually own a bucketful I'll probably never use.

Why do I care about defense in EA if I'm capped to SLEN? To partially plug that fire hole?

Yeah...I gotta mess with my Soul Drain. Damage is good. And I do fire this alot.

And let me say I'm really pleased that my slotting all lv 27 IOs isn't getting criticized. I've been running a lot of Ouro and initially showing up and seeing my capped tank running at 26 SL is a big shock.
EDIT: HAHA @ me not reading the other posts. Seems like the others covered everything for you.

Yea I understand the whole respec thing with enhancements. Huge pain.

Tough is, more or less, a set mule with the Reactive Armors. Basically with that, CJ, the Steadfast in Permafrost, and FA/GA/Weave slotted the way they are, you're at 42-43% defense to s/l/e/n. To me, that's just so much more efficient that relying solely on IOs to get defense. Tough does add a bit to your survival, though, since it is 'stacking' with the -dmg in CE (and DN for me on my Icer). 23% res + 35% dmg debuff on foes is pretty decent, IMO.

The Cyto in Weave is there because I would be over the rule of 5 on that 4th LotG bonus. Can totally use a random def/end IO, instead.

Getting more defense with EA does help your fire defense, but it is more so a buffer against defense debuffs. You only get ~50% DDR so having that bit of overhead is beneficial when fighting things like Romans or 5th Column. Additionally, it can put you really close to the softcap of incarnate trials, which is 59%

Oh Hibernate - a while back Phase powers were change to grant a temp power on the user called No Phase, which basically prohibits you from using any Phasing power for 120s. 120s is the base recharge of Hibernate and your global recharge is already reducing its recharge by a fair amount. No matter how quickly it recharges, you're only able to use it every 2 minutes. I know, I know. It's dumb


SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postagulous View Post
Oh, and I took Leadership because Vengeance is a massive, super, ultimate power for the team.
Yes. But if you're tanking properly, killing everything before it can hate your squishies, you never get to USE Vengeance! Kinda like taking Unstoppable on a defense-capped Invuln.



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