The only terrible debuff in an AV fight, is the one you don't use friend. That tiny percentage can be the difference between success and fail. 
Well that's cool then, thanks.
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AVs and GMs will have special resistances to defense, tohit, and slow debuffs (Lingering Radiation, Radiation Infection). They will not have special resistances to your damage or resistance debuffs (Enervating Field). They will resist your regen debuffs, but your regen debuff is huge, so will still have a big effect (Lingering Radiation).|
Originally Posted by Overlord_Mondo
I've read that AVs reduce the effects of debuffs by 80% or something, does that make them mostly worthless? I was considering Rad/Rad, but if my debuffs go from awesome to terrible, I might consider something else instead
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All in all, the self-heal, self-buff, Enervating Field, and -regen make Radiation Emission one of the most sought after anti-AV and anti-GM sets for teaming, and for soloing. Your question struck me as a little odd, since many people switch to radiation to deal with AVs and GMs!
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Sorta... Both of these are resisted by their own damage type resistance. It's kind of complicated, but boils down to they way resistance works mechanically, since it's not a separate attribute but rather a modifier of an existing one. If a hypothetical AV has:|
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
They will not have special resistances to your damage or resistance debuffs (Enervating Field).
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50% Smashing/Lethal Resist
90% Fire Resist
100% Psi Resist
And you hit it was a -30% Resist debuff, which is actually a bunch of debuffs, one for each damage type, the AV will end up with:
35% Smashing/Lethal Resist
87% Fire Resist
100% Psi Resist
-30% Cold/Energy/Neg/Toxic Resist
The interesting thing is that because of the way the math works out, you may only be doing 13% fire damage instead of 10%, but it's still 30% more than you were doing. So a total of -30% res debuff on an enemy will always increase your final damage done by 30%.
As Rigel mentioned, even though an AV resists 85+% of other debuffs, the values on some of them (especially regen debuffs) are so high that they still have a dramatic effect.
If Rad has terrible debuffs for an AV, then we are all screwed. 
Wow, I guess I was way off. I've played the game a lot, but it's been sporadic and always solo or sometimes duo, so I don't know much about stuff like Archvillains other than they kick the **** out of me. I really want to make the push into Incarnate stuff and Strike Forces and such if I can, though, and when I read about the crazy debuff resistance I was pretty worried I'd be worthless. But I guess I'm instead really awesome, so that's good.
So that -85% to tohit debuffs is confirmed? I've never seen that number before.
That means that a Dark/ fender is only getting
(~45% from chill of night (fluffy) + ~30% from fearsome stare + ~30% from Darkest Night)*15% = 14.25% debuffing on an AV? and that's optimal slotting for tohit debuffing.
That's kinda disappointing.
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Yes, that's correct. The details are here:|
Originally Posted by Shadey_NA
So that -85% to tohit debuffs is confirmed?
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Archvillain
85% is against a level 50 AV. It's less (but still a lot) for lower-level AVs. Also, it'll be even worse against an AV who is higher than you. Your debuffs are only 48% effective against a +4 enemy, and that's before the AV resistance.
See also: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Patch
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14.25% is about 1/3 the way to effectively softcapping everythings defense that gets targeted by the AV. You throw in the +def from shadow fall, and maybe maneuvers, and you can effectively softcap (or come really close to it) everyone on your team/league with just 1 dark/ defender. |
Originally Posted by Shadey_NA
So that -85% to tohit debuffs is confirmed? I've never seen that number before.
That means that a Dark/ fender is only getting (~45% from chill of night (fluffy) + ~30% from fearsome stare + ~30% from Darkest Night)*15% = 14.25% debuffing on an AV? and that's optimal slotting for tohit debuffing. That's kinda disappointing. |
While AVs do resist 85% or more of debuffs, the value of them can still be pretty staggering, and you can floor AVs pretty easily with stacked debuffs (think of what 2 dark/ defenders can do, or even 3..)
This is why something like Flash Arrow has some merit. It's tohit debuff can't be resisted. It might be a small number, but it still wins out against AVs.
I would also suggest from my experience on all-defender teams, there is no such thing as too much debuff, be it tohit, defense, resistance, damage, regen, recharge, speed, etc.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
So did the formula change for -tohit? Lots of ppl keep saying that it's equal to defense added. That didn't used to be the consensus by the number crunchers. I don't remember the exact math, but someone else might. Seems like it was something like 150% of defense. Does anyone know the numbers?
Amy,
Sounds like flash arrow is a very nice power against the AVs then. It's 9.9% enhanced. Or if you use PBU, it's up to 16.1%. That's a lot of debuffage for an arrow everyone hates. 
Of course, I've used it regularly on my TA/Ice when he starts tankfending for groups... late 20s on him but it's a nice experience while it lasts.
And I want a confuse arrow to go with my heal arrow!
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It changed in Issue 7, although it was not widely understood for quite some time after (and I use the term widely very loosely (OK, I use it wholly incorrectly)).
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Originally Posted by Shadey_NA
So did the formula change for -tohit? Lots of ppl keep saying that it's equal to defense added. That didn't used to be the consensus by the number crunchers. I don't remember the exact math, but someone else might. Seems like it was something like 150% of defense. Does anyone know the numbers?
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Well, that's about my normal speed. 13 issues behind. |
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
It changed in Issue 7, although it was not widely understood for quite some time after (and I use the term widely very loosely (OK, I use it wholly incorrectly)).
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I've read that AVs reduce the effects of debuffs by 80% or something, does that make them mostly worthless? I was considering Rad/Rad, but if my debuffs go from awesome to terrible, I might consider something else instead.