Question on Force Feedback proc
By
all_hell,
Posted on: 2011-07-11 07:04 in The Market and Inventions
It was nerfed / fixed. There was a bug making it proc way too often and sometimes the proc never expired. But they have done something else to it because it definitely procs way less than 10%. The chance for build up is a mere 5% and even it procs more.
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http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Force_...or_%2BRecharge
Suppression
This article or section contains information that no longer applies to the current version of City of Heroes/Villains. It is provided for historical purposes.
In its original incarnation, this proc would trigger extremely frequently and was basically a constant recharge buff on the character, provided that he had slotted it in a fast-recharging, Area of Effect power, like Footstomp. Since then, the power has been altered, adding suppression (red bits of the image below), requiring careful timing to get the most use out of it. Too-frequent use gets it to suppress too much, leaving very small windows of the buff being in effect (green bits of the image below).
So it begs the question: How DOES it work?
If I have it in enough AOE powers, each hitting max targets, could I theoretically "permafy" it at times? Chain it back to back with no gap in the buff? I realize that the odds are against this, but, there's no goofy suppression cooldown schenanigans preventing it, right?
I have a Fire/Stone tanker with Energy Torrent, Tremor, and Fault, and have seriously been considering running this in all 3 of them. Am I to understand that there is no downside to attempting to trigger this proc as often as possible?
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Quote:
I should point out that force feedback suppression was, to the best of my knowledge, never a feature of the power. When I first saw the article on Paragonwiki, it did not match my experience or my testing of the proc. So I retested *and* examined the design of the proc specifically, then discussed the proc with Castle. To the best of my knowledge, that proc does not have suppression, never had suppression, and never had any mechanism remotely related to suppression. What it does have is the specific feature that it cannot stack with itself and cannot refresh itself. So when its triggered, you cannot get the benefit of another proc until it expires.|
Originally Posted by all_hell
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Force_...or_%2BRecharge
Suppression This article or section contains information that no longer applies to the current version of City of Heroes/Villains. It is provided for historical purposes. In its original incarnation, this proc would trigger extremely frequently and was basically a constant recharge buff on the character, provided that he had slotted it in a fast-recharging, Area of Effect power, like Footstomp. Since then, the power has been altered, adding suppression (red bits of the image below), requiring careful timing to get the most use out of it. Too-frequent use gets it to suppress too much, leaving very small windows of the buff being in effect (green bits of the image below). |
But I slot this proc in my energy blaster, which is to say I slot it in *everything* on my energy blaster: power bolt, power blast, energy torrent, and explosive blast. I also have global recharge in my combat attribute monitor so I can see global recharge constantly. When I'm in a position to be using AoEs a lot, the proc is up more than half the time.
Mechanically, the way it works is this: the IO grants a 10% chance per target hit of granting you a passive power that buffs your global recharge by +100% for five seconds. However, this power has a limit of one, which means you can only have one copy of the power active at a time. If the FF proc fires while you still have this passive power active, that next proc will simply be wasted: you won't get any benefit at all.
Theoretically speaking its possible to have the proc up almost perma, but in practice it won't happen. At some point the proc will fire and grant you 5 seconds of +100% recharge. While that is up you cannot get any additional benefit from the proc. The moment it expires 5 seconds later, you can benefit from the proc again. If, at that moment, you fire an attack and the proc fires, you can be buffed again. So nothing prevents you from getting the buff over and over again, one after the other, continuously. But random chance and your attack chain will likely conspire to make that unlikely most of the time: the proc has to go off at just the right time for you to get the buffs back to back to back.
But high-speed energy blasters that cycle torrent and explosive blast can see *very* high uptimes in high density maps: since the proc has a chance to go off per target, the odds of the proc going off when you use torrent or explosive blast will be much higher than 10% if you are hitting lots of targets.
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Quote:
Thank you very much for that
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I should point out that force feedback suppression was, to the best of my knowledge, never a feature of the power. When I first saw the article on Paragonwiki, it did not match my experience or my testing of the proc. So I retested *and* examined the design of the proc specifically, then discussed the proc with Castle. To the best of my knowledge, that proc does not have suppression, never had suppression, and never had any mechanism remotely related to suppression. What it does have is the specific feature that it cannot stack with itself and cannot refresh itself. So when its triggered, you cannot get the benefit of another proc until it expires.
But I slot this proc in my energy blaster, which is to say I slot it in *everything* on my energy blaster: power bolt, power blast, energy torrent, and explosive blast. I also have global recharge in my combat attribute monitor so I can see global recharge constantly. When I'm in a position to be using AoEs a lot, the proc is up more than half the time. Mechanically, the way it works is this: the IO grants a 10% chance per target hit of granting you a passive power that buffs your global recharge by +100% for five seconds. However, this power has a limit of one, which means you can only have one copy of the power active at a time. If the FF proc fires while you still have this passive power active, that next proc will simply be wasted: you won't get any benefit at all. Theoretically speaking its possible to have the proc up almost perma, but in practice it won't happen. At some point the proc will fire and grant you 5 seconds of +100% recharge. While that is up you cannot get any additional benefit from the proc. The moment it expires 5 seconds later, you can benefit from the proc again. If, at that moment, you fire an attack and the proc fires, you can be buffed again. So nothing prevents you from getting the buff over and over again, one after the other, continuously. But random chance and your attack chain will likely conspire to make that unlikely most of the time: the proc has to go off at just the right time for you to get the buffs back to back to back. But high-speed energy blasters that cycle torrent and explosive blast can see *very* high uptimes in high density maps: since the proc has a chance to go off per target, the odds of the proc going off when you use torrent or explosive blast will be much higher than 10% if you are hitting lots of targets. |
So basically, its not as awesome as it used to be, but its not nearly as bad, is that correct?
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No. It's just the same as it always was.
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Originally Posted by HiddenJackal
So basically, its not as awesome as it used to be, but its not nearly as bad, is that correct?
|
Quote:
Near as I can tell, its always been the same. However, when the proc first came out not many people understood the mechanics of grantpower and assumed that if the proc fired twice and the second time didn't do anything, there must be suppression in the effect. Instead, there was just a non-stackable limit-one passive power involved. You can't get another until the first one expires. That looked like suppression to many testers at first glance.|
Originally Posted by HiddenJackal
So basically, its not as awesome as it used to be, but its not nearly as bad, is that correct?
|
Now, testers would recognize that what the FF proc does to us, is basically what Bruising does to foes.
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This is an important part to remember. With most non-stacking powers, if you get a second copy, you actually have both buffs on you, but only gain the effects of one. When the first wears off, the second keeps going, effectively extending the timer.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Instead, there was just a non-stackable limit-one passive power involved. You can't get another until the first one expires.
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Since the effect Arcana is talking about stops the second application from being applied until after the first wears off, it is now impossible to have the buff "perma". No matter how lucky you are, there will always be gaps, since it has to "turn off" before it can be "turned on" again.
@Roderick
Thanks for the explanation. This changed my opinion of the proc.
I remember reading from a previous thread that the Force Feedback +rech was nerfed, and then the nerf was removed, is that true, and if so, what does that necessarily apply to?
For example, I had an earth/fire dominator that depended on the FF+rech proc in earthquake for a lot of recharge time, and it used to proc almost constantly. With the nerf, it really ruined my perma dom. Will I have the same effect again with the nerf being removed, or will it still not proc as much as it used to?
Thanks.