All of the secondary effects of the various types of ammo were esentially nuetered (especially for blasters) since you have the ability to change types. Only defenders have high enough values to get any real benefit from secondary effects other than standard or incendiary.
Your best bet is to use standard Ammo for the KD effects until you have enough defense set bonuses that you can leave your ammo set to fire. When set to fire the DoT effects raises your total damage up to the point where it is finally on par with the Energy primary.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Yeah you're right Miladys. I never noticed a major difference with my slows even though CoD says they're almost on par with Ice Blast (but I never played Ice Blast to high levels).
Using standard definitely improved my survivability solo (I play 0/x2, just hit level 12, and yeah I faceplant a lot because I refuse to lower the diff level and I'm not used to blasters), so much I wish it was a higher kb chance (like 50% instead of 25%) since on teams I was using fire ammo anyway in case KB is detrimental to the team and when I don't need protection.
Now as I start to plan my build, I'm wondering about Piercing Rounds and Suppressive Fire. Piercing can hit two if they're behind each other, seems cool, I'm on the fence about Suppressive, I'm skipping Executioner's Shot, does a little more damage than Piercing, has shorter range but can't hit two-three people and has a long cast time (Piercing does too I know). I'm DP/Fire so Suppressive won't have any synergy with my secondary and it has double the recharge of Freeze Ray and Tesla Cage which sucks (and I'm a long way from epics to make Char+Suppressive work together, hell even Char recharges faster than Suppressive).
Piercing would be my big hitter in this case but it also has a long recharge.... Well maybe I'll get Exec and respec later. Not sure on the attack chain yet, would be a no brainer if Piercing had a 12 second recharge (and wow it also costs the same end as Bullet Rain).
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One thing that really helps with Ice Blast and slows is that the Ice Blast animations are very fast. Hit and move, hit and move is very easy with Ice Blast and a slowed enemy.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Yeah you're right Miladys. I never noticed a major difference with my slows even though CoD says they're almost on par with Ice Blast (but I never played Ice Blast to high levels).
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Dual Pistols animations are... longer. I tried out Cryo rounds extensively while Pistols was in beta. With Ice blast, I could slow a roman so that he never caught up to me while I attacked steadily. With Pistols, it was impossible. Even a goodly slowed Roman would catch me by the time ES or PR animated. Chaining Pistols and Dual Wield is not great damage, and has barely any slow effect, so that is not a viable alternative.
I am gonna stick with, kill it with fire (standard rounds can be OK while leveling, the KB is decent enough to be useful).
In the end, Cryo and Chem rounds are less functional than they should be.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I forget what the thread was called, but one I found when I made my dp blaster...the guy basically calculated that even versus an enemy with lower resists to say..cold damage, your overall damage would be higher using Fire ammo anyway.
Could see the ammo effects maybe helping a bit more when combined with the Interface proc...but like you said, a long way away for you. I think that..blaster, damage is your goal, and fire does that.
Oh and I would recommend taking Exe SHot..just cause it looks so cool, and its your best attack. Piercing IS super cool, but I view the multihit as a bonus, since the cone is so pathetic. Also..ES provides 18% more damage when you use it...using it before Hail of Bullets..you WILL notice that, especially since DP gets no aim.
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Good point, mine's still a lowbie but even when I slow entire groups with the cone and the TAoE I don't see much effect. That's why I'd like the KB chance to be increased, adds a lot to my survival solo. Chem is pathetic.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
One thing that really helps with Ice Blast and slows is that the Ice Blast animations are very fast. Hit and move, hit and move is very easy with Ice Blast and a slowed enemy.
Dual Pistols animations are... longer. I tried out Cryo rounds extensively while Pistols was in beta. With Ice blast, I could slow a roman so that he never caught up to me while I attacked steadily. With Pistols, it was impossible. Even a goodly slowed Roman would catch me by the time ES or PR animated. Chaining Pistols and Dual Wield is not great damage, and has barely any slow effect, so that is not a viable alternative. I am gonna stick with, kill it with fire (standard rounds can be OK while leveling, the KB is decent enough to be useful). In the end, Cryo and Chem rounds are less functional than they should be. |
What attack chain would you use while leveling Strato, since you played the set extensively? I don't know if Piercing could be my big hitter because of its long recharge. I live in melee (DP/Fire) so maybe the short range of ES wouldn't matter much but it would mean an extra power pick.
And thanks for all the feedback people
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This. I was going to comment, but this pretty much sums up my experience, both practical and math.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Your best bet is to use standard Ammo for the KD effects until you have enough defense set bonuses that you can leave your ammo set to fire. When set to fire the DoT effects raises your total damage up to the point where it is finally on par with the Energy primary.
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Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
I have never been a good chainer outside of a few characters.
My standard while leveling (once I got into the teens) would be Bullet Rain, FSC, then FS the worst enemy (usually its dead), then Ring something then Pistols something. Solo I use inspires frequently, often trying to keep a purple running. I move quick, trying to get as many spawns per inspire as I can, especially in the early levels when my inspire tray is smaller.
I often team while leveling, so I'll either let someone tougher take the initial aggro or I hope to keep the aggro off any corruptors, defenders, or controllers so they can focus on debilitating the enemy or buffing me.
Once you get into the late 20s, early 30s, you can have a decent single target chain with the primary. Your own tolerance for redraw will now come into play. I have a high tolerance, so I still do not chain well, mixing in my secondary attacks and Pistol's attacks freely. During AV and maybe EB fights I'll do better and chain several primary attacks, then switch to Ring and Sword, then primary again, trying to minimize redraw (unless we need the immob, in which case I throw in Ring frequently and redraw often, which is even painful to me). Now with Build Up, you can boost the AoEs, so that it doesn't take as many single target attacks, and of course Build Up is helpful for boss fights as well.
Of course, single target is not where this combo shines and after 33, you really become a spawnmower. Bullet Rain + FSC are still great, but adding HoB every third spawn is very nice. With good recharge, you are looking every other spawn, HoB + Bullet Rain, then FSC if needed, then mop up with single target attacks.
I like Executioner's Shot and would never skip it. PR is also good, but for its end cost and opportunity cost, you can take it or leave it. Since I leave incendiary ammo on almost always now, I don't get the -resist bonus from PR. However, I giggle delightedly everytime I hit 3 things with PR.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Thanks Strato. I'm not used to playing blasters so it's kinda hard for me deciding on so many attacks, looking at the animations I want them all, including Suppressive, but I'll skip it. And Piercing looks too cool not to take, I use lethal a lot anyway, I'll figure out a bind if I keep it later.
Since I'm seeing I'm in melee or close to it half the time, I'll get Executioner Shot. I don't have Fire Sword, I know it's a great attack, but if I get it I think I'll have too many and it will be hard to fit and slot aid self, which I simply must have. I also have a good tolerance for redraw, no problem here using ring of fire (I'm using it a lot at 14) then shooting stuff. I'm mostly soloing (or leading small teams) her because Praetoria is new to me and I want to read the story which is a first for me (and I have 27 months of play so it's really the first time I like the storyline, I even made other alts for the loyalist paths and I'll make a Stalker or a Dom for the other Resistance storyline), in a night's teaming with my Brute I reached level 16 so I'm almost out of there, I don't want this to happen to my blaster.
I'm faceplanting quite a bit tho because I decided to up to 0/x3 when I Do'ed her, but at least she feels damaging now.
And I got my first kick from a team in 27 months of playtime went on a mission that had a tanker who HAD to grab all the aggro before everyone, so he yelled at me and the dom who were aggroing everything (nobody was dying) - you know the type, the Tanker (nothing against the AT) who wants to play a regular mission like it was a MoSTF. When I DO'ed her and got FSC I just HAD to pop 4 purples and use it in the middle of a 15ish men mob, so I ran past him and did it... He got kinda mad and I got booted 
Anyway since even on DOs Pistols and Dual Wield are recharging quite fast I guess on SOs (well I tend to frankenslot at 22) she'll have a good attack chain with Pistols-Dual-ES-Pistols or something like that. I'd pick Fire Sword if I didn't want almost all of my primary.
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Hey, I just noticed this real quick and wanted to take time to tell you what I use for this. If you make a macro "powexec_piercing rounds$$powexec_toggleoff incendiary ammunition" then this will toggle off your fire ammo before shooting PR.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I like Executioner's Shot and would never skip it. PR is also good, but for its end cost and opportunity cost, you can take it or leave it. Since I leave incendiary ammo on almost always now, I don't get the -resist bonus from PR. However, I giggle delightedly everytime I hit 3 things with PR. |
Make another macro such as: /bind f "powexec_pistols$$powexec_toggleon incendiary ammunition" then this should turn fire ammo on the first time you hit "f" and then fire pistols the second time. You could switch out pistols for any power that you regularly like to use right after piercing rounds and it should work. This lets you regularly get the benefit of the -resist without having to get click happy with the ammo.
One word of advice, you'll have to give it a second before you hit the button the second time or it seems you'll skip over loading fire ammo. Anyways, I find it helpful for making sure I'm always in the right ammo type.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Your best bet is to use standard Ammo for the KD effects until you have enough defense set bonuses that you can leave your ammo set to fire. When set to fire the DoT effects raises your total damage up to the point where it is finally on par with the Energy primary.
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This only makes sense if you never team. Fire all the way unless you solo.
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Actually it makes sense solo and teamed depending on team size and composition. If all you ever did was 8 man teams the ideal thing would be to be able to select fire ammo as your base ammo and not even take swap ammo.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
This only makes sense if you never team. Fire all the way unless you solo.
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You can't do that of course. Swap ammo is the "gimmick" that is supposed to make up for the short comings of the set and doesn't.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
That's why I never mentioned that - I never mentioned 8 man teams or anything about composition - it's already been proven mathematically that fire is really the only bullets that make sense unless you solo.
Granted, if you are in a duo and your partner is squishier than you, then sure, use normals.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
The other advantage of swap ammo is you can use two nice procs from the knockback sets, without the problem of having KB. I think pistols is fun grouped, solo, can be painful I think.
When I grouped I see a flurry of orange numbers and feel like Im the man, solo, nothing is dying and I realize Pistols is a little soft on crime and the mobs doing it Im trying to stop.
Ok so I know I'm late to the party but I just got GR and by seeing the stats on City of Data....
Cryo Ammo:
- JumpHeight, RechargeTime -15% for 8s (0% chance) [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Ice Blast:- SpeedJumping, RunSpeed, FlySpeed -0.2 for 10s
(Ice Bolt is 6s, most others are 10s, BiB is 12s)So... Cryo Ammo isn't bad comparing to Ice Blast in terms of secondary effects right? My DP/Fire is only level 8 and since I'm soloing to see the story arcs it seems more useful than Fire Ammo. Unless it's not a 100% chance, CoD says 0% chance so it must have some number that's mixed up. Is it a 100% chance or 25% chance like the KB from lethal?
(now that -7% damage debuff from Toxic ammo really needs to get dev attention cmon)