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I will say yes to a revamped Incarnate UI as it is a bit cluttered but a big no to the additional suggestion. |
Originally Posted by Lost Ninja
Additional suggestion:
Remove shard & thread specific recipes, make each alpha slot recipe use salvage from just the thread side of these and have shards also make same salvage. (Whole shard/thread issue needlessly complicates the whole issue with no real benefit.) |
Getting rid of the Alpha Slot salvage will essentially get rid of the rewards for running ITF/STF/LRSF/Kahn/Barracuda/LGTF/CoP along with collecting Vanguard Merits which would annoy some people, me being one of them. It needlessly gets rid of options for players who would prefer to collect the salvage they need and use the shards to create the uncommons and Favours.
Also there is also a Shard to Thread convertion rate of 10 to 10 (once every 24hrs and then 10 to 5) so if they said you have to make the new salvage using shards they wouldn't necessarily change the exchange rate. This means it would take 20 shards to make one common where as now it only takes 4 to make it It will push people to grind TFs and higher content for shards, which is one of the biggest complaints about the current Trials.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Not my intention at all. |
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
I will say yes to a revamped Incarnate UI as it is a bit cluttered but a big no to the additional suggestion.
Getting rid of the Alpha Slot salvage will essentially get rid of the rewards for running ITF/STF/LRSF/Kahn/Barracuda/LGTF/CoP along with collecting Vanguard Merits which would annoy some people, me being one of them. It needlessly gets rid of options for players who would prefer to collect the salvage they need and use the shards to create the uncommons and Favours. Also there is also a Shard to Thread convertion rate of 10 to 10 (once every 24hrs and then 10 to 5) so if they said you have to make the new salvage using shards they wouldn't necessarily change the exchange rate. This means it would take 20 shards to make one common where as now it only takes 4 to make it It will push people to grind TFs and higher content for shards, which is one of the biggest complaints about the current Trials. |
Four shards buy a single piece of common salvage. As do 20 threads. But each type of salvage can only be used in one recipe, consequently each alpha slot needs two recipes one for salvage traded from threads and one from shards.
If shards bought the same salvage as the threads do then you wouldn't be mitigating or losing the value of shard drops but increasing them because you could for instance: Use 8 shards and 20 threads to make the same Alpha slot. Unlike now where several of my characters have a mixture of threads; thread salvage and shards; shard salvage. But not enough of either to be useful.
As for trading shards directly for threads, leave it as it is. It will remove inf (Inf Sink) and really only be used by very few people who have huge amount of shards and want threads.
That is as you don't earn shards prior to being able to do trials and once you can do trials you earn threads anyway, the only people who will have many more shards than threads are likely to be those who earned shards before threads were available or who never run trials. So a method to transfer one resource to another is needed, but with the above change is not as needed as before.
I find this a funny.
What exactly is confusing?
Want to make an Incarnate Ability. Click on it, so you cna mouse over and use the window slider bar and scroll down and see the different ways to make it.
And what exactly is complicated about using Shards and Threads?
On my recently SS/FA Brute, I used shards on some of the Alpha slot powers, and Threads on other parts.
Some of us don't go around doing multiple trials a day, but also go about running ITFs, STFs, and other TFs and then pick up shards in the process.
I really don't see what's complicated about Shards, Threads, Components or any of their conversions or use.
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Which is fine, IMO, allowing for those that prefer to do trials and those that prefer to do TFs (and solo content).|
Originally Posted by Lost Ninja
Not my intention at all.
Four shards buy a single piece of common salvage. As do 20 threads. But each type of salvage can only be used in one recipe, consequently each alpha slot needs two recipes one for salvage traded from threads and one from shards. |
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If shards bought the same salvage as the threads do then you wouldn't be mitigating or losing the value of shard drops but increasing them because you could for instance: Use 8 shards and 20 threads to make the same Alpha slot. Unlike now where several of my characters have a mixture of threads; thread salvage and shards; shard salvage. But not enough of either to be useful. As for trading shards directly for threads, leave it as it is. It will remove inf (Inf Sink) and really only be used by very few people who have huge amount of shards and want threads. |
What I meant with regards to the conversion is that there is already a going rate for shards to threads. I very much doubt it if the Devs said that you could make one of the thread salvage pieces with only 4 shards, they will most likely (if they were being generous) allow you to make it with 20 shards which is actually cheaper than the going rate (as there is no Inf cost).
If you actually look at it, the recipes for the Alpha slot using threads are a rip off compared to the shard ones. It cost 12 shards to get your tier 1 and 20 shards to get your tier 2. With threads it cost 60 threads to get your tier 1 and 100 threads to get your tier 2. That is five times more expensive!
So to balance it the devs would either make the shard drop rate five times more common in TFs and regular play. This may stop people doing trials as it is easier to create the salvage they need not just for the Alpha slot but the others to as it is easier to get them outside of the trial.
The other way they would go is make 4 shards make one piece of salvage but they would have to decrease the drop rate would be detrimental to those who like the current system and don't like doing trials.
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| That is as you don't earn shards prior to being able to do trials and once you can do trials you earn threads anyway, the only people who will have many more shards than threads are likely to be those who earned shards before threads were available or who never run trials. So a method to transfer one resource to another is needed, but with the above change is not as needed as before. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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For exchange rates: (edited to clarify)
The actual value of threads and shards is not 10 = 10 as has been said here and elsewhere, that is the exchange rate, set that way I assume to remove excess shards from the world. In fact 1 Shard = 5 Threads :: I'm not trying to get the changed although I find the fact that rewards for more difficult content are not more valuable... odd.
So 1 shard = 5 threads? That is based on lowest common denominator common salvage used in same item creation costs either 4 shards or twenty threads. Or put another way single base alpha slot costs either 12 shards or 60 threads (three pieces of salvage costing 4 or 20) 60/12=5
Removing one set of salvage wouldn't impact that at all, one piece of common salvage would still cost 4 shards or twenty threads. But you could use both threads and shards to make one incarnate slot, whereas at the moment you can't. Yes it is true you can convert shards into threads (though need a minimum of ten and the exchange rate is pants).
The actual process of converting shards into threads is a separate issue, and is I would think primarily intended for those who have t4 Alpha slots and no further use for shards.
As for the whole 'confusing' issue, I may be the only person that looks at Gr'ai Matter and doesn't know from the name of it that is common salvage made from shards. So a form of linking to the actual Convert > Incarnate Shard > Common > Gr'ai Matter Conversion... would make the process easier and more intuitive.
And on the whole I'm not confused about this, I'm annoyed that the devs have made a mess of creating a system that with a bit of thought in the design would have been easy to use and intuitive.
I guess it boils down to what the dev's intentions were when implementing the new system of threads and thread salvage on top of the existing shard and shard salvage. And also how the view the subjective value of the salvage/slot.
It seems difficult to pin point these things when you have the Alpha Slot Recipes having one comparitive value (1 to 5) and the Shards to Threads conversion having another (1 to 1). I understand you say this may be a way for players to remove excess shards, but it may also reflect the dev's view on the relative value of the salvage.
I just think if they intended for the comparitive value to be 1 to 5 why not make the shard conversion that as well? I am of the belief they did it because they wanted the Alpha slots to be made at a certain speed and wanted the others to be made at another. And removing the shard salvage and keeping the 4 shard for a common would upset this as it could (potentially) speed up the creation of the newer incarnate slots.
I also personally like how the current Alpha slot is made. I know what TF I need to run to get a certain piece of salvage and a notice of the well. I really don't like the randomisation of rewards at the end of Trials.
And back to your original point about the UI - again I totally agree with your idea for a revamp and possibly have a tab where you can look up salvage and find out where it drops from etc.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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I didn't know different salvage dropped in different places... :/
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Originally Posted by Tired Angel
And back to your original point about the UI - again I totally agree with your idea for a revamp and possibly have a tab where you can look up salvage and find out where it drops from etc.
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Sorry "drop" is poor wording on my part. I mean telling you whic tf a piece of salvage is given as the reward for (eg essence of incarnate from stf or lrsf) or if it is from the reward table from a trial. |
Originally Posted by Lost Ninja
I didn't know different salvage dropped in different places... :/
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Sorry!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Oh, you mean like the list here? Because anything other than those can drop from anywhere.
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Originally Posted by Tired Angel
Sorry "drop" is poor wording on my part. I mean telling you whic tf a piece of salvage is given as the reward for (eg essence of incarnate from stf or lrsf) or if it is from the reward table from a trial.
Sorry! |
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That's the one - I had forgotten they were listed on the GR Website!
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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
Oh, you mean like the list here? Because anything other than those can drop from anywhere.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Currently my biggest turn off on Incarnates is the difficulty in using this screen to make the different powers.
The creation screen lists what I need to make a power, but to see what I need to make those I need to switch to a different tab.
So suggestion:
Use the Wentworth/AH style linked items so you can look at what you want to make, click it to be shown what you need to make that item. That is in the AH I can look at a recipe and then search the ingredients needed to make it. Adding this to incarnate crafting would make a complex system much easier to use. Also a search function so I can see what I can use each drop for.
Additional suggestion:
Remove shard & thread specific recipes, make each alpha slot recipe use salvage from just the thread side of these and have shards also make same salvage. (Whole shard/thread issue needlessly complicates the whole issue with no real benefit.)