Demons and Bots are fine, I my experience. Not sure about Mercs and Ninjas since I never have them at a higher levels.
As to Zombies, I would rather they have better resistance than your new proposal. It is a good idea nonetheless and thematically make sense as well. With good enough resistance - better still with some heal powers alongside - Demons are rather tough pets. Likewise with Zombies, just scale up the resistance value, I suppose, will make them a lot less flimsy.
Having more Defence for Ninjas are always good, and that is indeed something we have been looking forward for quite some time already.
BUT I think the most pressing issue for MM, and all other pet owners as well, is the movement AI. Sort that out first will be a significant improvement of QoL that has long been over due. (Last night, I noticed that runners are far more intelligent in negotiating obstacles: they jump when necessary instead of circulating on the ground thinking to jump or not; and they seem to know how trace a clear and direct path to run away.)
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I agree that the pet AI is the single most important issue for MMs at the moment, but I don't believe that we've failed to express that. I have faith that the devs know it is a pressing issue and are working toward a resolution, and I believe it would be prudent to consider what might need to come next.|
Originally Posted by Angelic_EU
BUT I think the most pressing issue for MM, and all other pet owners as well, is the movement AI. Sort that out first will be a significant improvement of QoL that has long been over due. (Last night, I noticed that runners are far more intelligent in negotiating obstacles: they jump when necessary instead of circulating on the ground thinking to jump or not; and they seem to know how trace a clear and direct path to run away.)
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When the AI is fixed, and they're looking for the next thing to work on, it never hurts to have something ready for them to consider.
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Originally Posted by Angelic_EU
As to Zombies, I would rather they have better resistance than your new proposal. It is a good idea nonetheless and thematically make sense as well. With good enough resistance - better still with some heal powers alongside - Demons are rather tough pets. Likewise with Zombies, just scale up the resistance value, I suppose, will make them a lot less flimsy.
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Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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Originally Posted by William_Valence
Necromancy:
What would be more useful? Replace zombie resistance with a new power called Undead. Undead would still have the status protection, but no longer have it's resistances. Zombies would then recieve a self rez, preferably soul transfer but that might be a tad too powerful. What this would do is allow zombies the ability to shrug off defeat and keep fighting while adding survivibility in the form of the rez's secondary effects. Undead's description would mention the rez as the survival ability. |
This would add a good amount of flavor to the set.. But what about buffs and such? Is there any method that the zombies would retain (at the very least) their pet upgrades?
Even with the new end cost of the upgrades, I don't see how having to use them constantly would be any fun.
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Since the upgrades work as a Grant power type deal, I could imagine they would be able to keep them after Rezing. I would see it functioning in the same way as secondary mutation, which you get back after you rez. However that's just a guess. I could be wrong.
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Originally Posted by Primantiss
This would add a good amount of flavor to the set.. But what about buffs and such? Is there any method that the zombies would retain (at the very least) their pet upgrades?
Even with the new end cost of the upgrades, I don't see how having to use them constantly would be any fun. |
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
After testing Necro and having several high level Necro, I would recommend:
Zombie
1. Add Lethal resistance to match Smashing
2. Zombie pbaoe Vomit should have a bit lower recharge. It has 12s recharge and while the damage is a bit higher than Projectile one, its radius is really quite small. I think either the damage needs to be a bit higher or recharge needs to be 10s. I am voting for 10s recharge so Zombie attacks a bit more frequently.
3. Siphon Life: This is probably the worst 2nd upgrade of all. Zombie's Siphon Life recharges in 30s and only does the same damage as Brawl. I think the recharge needs to be much lower and damage scale needs to match Stalker/Scrapper version.
Recharge 16s (keep the same damage and healing). 16s would match all the 2nd upgrade cone attacks like Full Auto Laser and Exploding Throwing Star.
or
Keep Recharge 30s with damage scale that matches Stalker's version (5.99xbrawl). Stalker's brawl damage is 20 and Siphon Life is 119.9.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I really like the ideas for changing the powers, but I still think it would be better to do something different when it comes to survivibility for zombies.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
After testing Necro and having several high level Necro, I would recommend:
Zombie 1. Add Lethal resistance to match Smashing 2. Zombie pbaoe Vomit should have a bit lower recharge. It has 12s recharge and while the damage is a bit higher than Projectile one, its radius is really quite small. I think either the damage needs to be a bit higher or recharge needs to be 10s. I am voting for 10s recharge so Zombie attacks a bit more frequently. 3. Siphon Life: This is probably the worst 2nd upgrade of all. Zombie's Siphon Life recharges in 30s and only does the same damage as Brawl. I think the recharge needs to be much lower and damage scale needs to match Stalker/Scrapper version. Recharge 16s (keep the same damage and healing). 16s would match all the 2nd upgrade cone attacks like Full Auto Laser and Exploding Throwing Star. or Keep Recharge 30s with damage scale that matches Stalker's version (5.99xbrawl). Stalker's brawl damage is 20 and Siphon Life is 119.9. |
I see you matched lethal resistance to zombies, but why no resistance for Grave Knights? C/N/P/T resist just doesn't cut it for a melee pet. Add to that the fact that 25% resist for Henchmen that, as a base, take 11% or 22% more damage already is useless.
One thing I realized when I noticed that the Lich and Grave Knights have no S/L resistance is, that they shouldn't have it. When all the zombies do their thing, the -tohit and control is what keeps them standing, not resistance. And it often works well. However some enemies highly resist -tohit and control which messes the game plan in an epic way. In these cases an ammount of resistance really won't help. Zombies (the T1 henchmen not a generic name) have 25% smashing resistance, but against enemies that resist the control and -tohit, they are often 1shot.
So to expand my suggestion for zombies a bit.
T1 Zombies get a Self rez with no strings. Full health and Endurance and that's it.
T2 Grave Knights get a Self rez with a 10s invincibility
T3 Lich gets a full Soul Transfer clone with stun and everything
One idea I'm tossing around in my head, is giving the Lich an auto power aura with the second upgrade that instantly recharges the T1 zombie's Rez. Or maybe the first upgrade would recharge T1 and the second would give an aura to recharge T2 henchmen, but I'm not sure. Possibly, that they couldn't use the rez without the Lich around. As long as the Lich is alive and in range, the zombies won't stay down. They would drop, but not stay dead, and the Lich itself would get one (powerful) second chance.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
No, keep resistances for Necro. I'd rather they not be squishy as all get out. Adding Lethal resistance seems fine to me. I still think Soul Extraction should recharge in half the time it does now. Either that or make it an AoE and unenhanceable with recharge.
I didn't suggest anything for Grave Knights because they are already doing majority of the damage and it seems like Zombies tend to draw more aggro than Grave Knights because they run in sooner (due to lack of range). The Knights have Dark Blast and Gloom which have 80' range. The zombie pukes only have 50 or 40' range?
Giving Zombie lethal resistance is not critical. It would be nice if they have lethal instead of smashing because most range attacks are lethal. Longbows kill Necro so fast with both lethal and fire damage (Flamethrower).
I think Zombies are a bit under-performing because in terms of damage, they are at least 30% less than Genins and in terms of survival, they are not that stronger than Genins. Zombies fold just as easily as Genins.
I just think Zombie's 2nd upgrade sucks. Siphon Life recharges way too long at 30s. It needs to either recharge faster or does more damage for a 30s attack.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Actually, now that I'm looking. Is city of data correct that Siphon life has a damage scale of 1? Looking at my AT mods sheet and the detailed info from the game, it is. If I'm doing the numbers right, and the balance numbers for henchmen are the same for scrappers, a 30s recharge attack should have a damage scale of a little over 5. Not 1. That would mean the attack should do, at level 50 for mastermind so 48 for zombie, 124.45 damage. Not 24.89 damage.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I think Zombies are a bit under-performing because in terms of damage, they are at least 30% less than Genins and in terms of survival, they are not that stronger than Genins. Zombies fold just as easily as Genins.
I just think Zombie's 2nd upgrade sucks. Siphon Life recharges way too long at 30s. It needs to either recharge faster or does more damage for a 30s attack. |
Is this a mistake or WAI? That might be one for the MM issues thread.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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Yup, Siphon Life is indeed that weak. It only does base damage 24.89, the same as Slap. I love to call it Slap because that's what it looks like to me. lol|
Originally Posted by William_Valence
Actually, now that I'm looking. Is city of data correct that Siphon life has a damage scale of 1? Looking at my AT mods sheet and the detailed info from the game, it is. If I'm doing the numbers right, and the balance numbers for henchmen are the same for scrappers, a 30s recharge attack should have a damage scale of a little over 5. Not 1. That would mean the attack should do, at level 50 for mastermind so 48 for zombie, 124.45 damage. Not 24.89 damage.
Is this a mistake or WAI? That might be one for the MM issues thread. |
They buffed Siphon Life in Dark Melee set. It is now a real 10s attack with good damage scale.
I just think 30s recharge is way too long for 2nd upgrade. I mean your zombies may not even survive 30s in some of the fights.
We don't need a real Siphon Life damage scale but it needs to be better than what we have now. I prefer reduced Recharge to be honest so zombies can heal sooner. 30s is way too long.
Maybe they should go for a mix. 20s Recharge with increased damage. It doesn't have to be much but it needs to be better than a Zombie Slap damage.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
So there are currently some Discrepancies in performance between various MM primaries. Right now Bots and Thugs are a good bit better than the others.
Melee pets have decent enough damage, but they don't often get to use that damage due to being in melee range and dying due to lesser available survivibility options.
Mercenaries seem to have a lot of good stuff, that's just doesn't function when used by the AI.
Demons seem to be at a good point, as far as I can tell.
So my suggestions
Necromancy:
Remove all the Zombie resistances. Yes I said remove them. It may seem counter to what I was saying about needing more survivibility, but zombies pay too much for an ammount of resistance that doesn't actually help. With the resistance gone, we could get something more useful.
What would be more useful? Replace zombie resistance with a new power called Undead. Undead would still have the status protection, but no longer have it's resistances. Zombies would then recieve a self rez, preferably soul transfer but that might be a tad too powerful. What this would do is allow zombies the ability to shrug off defeat and keep fighting while adding survivibility in the form of the rez's secondary effects. Undead's description would mention the rez as the survival ability.
Soul extraction may need to be modified to kill the targeted henchman then summon the spirit as well as working on a corpse (If that's even possible). If changed in this way, and their rez is recharged it should fire off.
Ninjas:
Each Ninja would get a Phalanx Fighting clone. The Jounin would get Grant cover with much less defense and a lot more Defense debuff resistance.
Mercenaries:
Medic- Remove Frag grenade from the second upgrade and replace it with a Rez power that only works on Mercenary pets
Spec ops- Replace Stun grenade and tear gas with Frag grenade and Acid Grenade (Venom grenade clone) Double the defense gained from stealth.
Commando- Add 10% chance for a 10s mag3 Disorient proc, to M30 grenade and Buckshot. Allowing the potential for greater control without consistancy. Also the control would be the product of a regular attack chain, preventing stupid pet AI from wasting the powers.
Putting aside Pet AI issues, MMs are incredibly fun to play. The Biggest issue is choosing which one. And while the primaries should be varied in playstyle, there should not be such a variance in effectiveness between sets.
While there are plenty of threads on individual sets, and changes that may be needed for a specific primary, there needs to be a consideration of where other sets stand currently, as well as where those sets may stand in the future depending on potential changes.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.