We need a way to "guard" with Shield Defence


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

This is something that bugs me. A lot. Shield Defence is a cool set, and I like a lot of the custom shields, but it lacks one BIG aspect that really should be part of any Shield set - the ability to at least animate guarding with it. Oh, sure, if you're lucky and the moon is in the right phase and you're not touching the keyboard then once in a thousand times you get attacked, your character will bring his shield in front of his face as though he's guarding with it. But I really don't think this is enough.

I honestly don't know what can be done about it. The best I can figure is we just alter the idle and running stances with a shield out so that the shield isn't held to the side, but rather out in front of the character, as though the character is blocking. This is already the case with Ninja Run because of it's "running elbow jab" nature. I suppose I could ask for the Ninja Run running style to be made as an option for regular run, but it's way too goofy for general use, in my opinion. But I WOULD like to see an option to make our characters hold their shields in front of their faces more often than they do now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

To be fair (and to my knowledge), none of the defense/resist sets have any animation for dodging/taking blows. Super reflexes, for example. Any non-ranged attacks look like they hit you, the only difference is that they don't do damage.


 

Posted

I mentioned this in the open beta phase. The response was "SD has guarding animations!".


 

Posted

I'd say this falls under the "reactive defense" requests that I have frequently seen. Things like Super Reflexes should use dodge animations when a "miss" or "deflected" is registered, and sets like shield defense should have guarding animations. There was a recent request (within the past month or two, I think) for an armor set that reacted/glowed different based on whether an attack landed or not.

I am for all of these things, but of course, standard code rant applies. My guess is that the problem arises when characters are targeted by multiple attacks from multiple targets at the same time. Scenario: Player is attacked by 3 targets at once. Each of those 3 attacks needs a hit roll to be calculated independently: 2 miss, 1 hits. Animations are calculated on a per-attack basis, so in the span of time it takes 3 individual attacks to reach the Player, 3 different animation codes are trying to launch at the same time, each based on their own individual to-hit roll.

The character is trying to do too many things at once. From what I can see in-game, this is why animations can become skewed, or just plain not happen. Any time you get hit with a boulder from an Outcast Brick, and go flying backwards in a standing position (as opposed to flopping onto your back which is the default), it is likely because your character was in the middle of a different animation upon getting hit by the boulder. I am sure you can think of other scenarios where this is an issue, and I would bet money that the "once in a blue moon" scenarios to which you are referring, where your shield-bearing character actually uses the "dodge/deflect" animation, it is because the character model was not in the process of executing any other animation.


@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.

 

Posted

Yeah, if you're a Tanker, surrounded by 17 enemies, all attacking you, you'd get locked into a guarding animation, unable to perform an attack animation.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Well, our "dodge" animations are interruptible, but that's not really what I wanted to focus on. Dodge animations HAVE to be interruptible precisely so we don't get locked down dodging too many enemies.

However, what I have a problem with is the general running and combat stances with Shield Defence. I realise that they were made the way they were to save up on animation time, but the result of this is that the shield is almost never raised. It provides defence, but only in terms of numbers, rarely in terms of visuals. It's a lot like carrying a sword but never animating an attack and just having enemies take Lethal damage when you activate your powers.

I suspect the only reasonable way to "guard" with Shield Defence is to give us custom idle and walking animations where the shield is held in front at all times. Not just when we are attacked, I mean AT ALL TIMES. Our current stance is left foot forward, which means the right hand is always back. Well, how about we use this stance but instead of holding the left hand extended forward with the shield pointing off to the side, we have the left hand bent inward with the shield pointing forward? The run is a bit more tricky, in that a whole new animation might be needed, but I feel it's high time to think about adding basic animation customization, anyway.

Personally, what I really want to do is have a running animation where the shield is held out in front, as if yo ram people with it while the weapon is held behind and pointing UP (as opposed to the back and down orientation of Ninja Run). I'll see if I can't get a screenshot from the source material that inspired me to want this again.

*edit*
Unfortunately, the only one I could find wasn't very good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
*snip*

I suspect the only reasonable way to "guard" with Shield Defence is to give us custom idle and walking animations where the shield is held in front at all times. Not just when we are attacked, I mean AT ALL TIMES. Our current stance is left foot forward, which means the right hand is always back. Well, how about we use this stance but instead of holding the left hand extended forward with the shield pointing off to the side, we have the left hand bent inward with the shield pointing forward? The run is a bit more tricky, in that a whole new animation might be needed, but I feel it's high time to think about adding basic animation customization, anyway.

Personally, what I really want to do is have a running animation where the shield is held out in front, as if yo ram people with it while the weapon is held behind and pointing UP (as opposed to the back and down orientation of Ninja Run). I'll see if I can't get a screenshot from the source material that inspired me to want this again.
I definitely understand where you are coming from. Ninja Run is my chosen movement power on my Shield tanker because the shield is leading, as if I could charge into an enemy at any moment. But I have to admit, I like that I can stand around other heroes, with my character-defining shield drawn and visible, but held to the side while just chatting. Unfortunately, the other side to this argument is not necessarily my viewpoint, but those indignant individuals who might say, "No! I happen to like the fact that I stand/run with my shield down and to the side, and if that means I do not look quite right in battle, so be it." Again, I agree with you and I wish my Shield toon looked more defensive while on missions, but for the rest of the game it would probably look silly, which is probably why something akin to what you are asking for was not originally included with the set.

May I ask what visual effect, specifically, you are trying to accomplish (i.e. charging into battle, constantly being on your guard, etc.)? There may be a way to work around it. (For example, I found that by using the new Super Strength animations for Jab, Punch, and Knockout Blow, I could effectively make a character that looked as if it was using the Shield offensively as well as defensively).


@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Personally, what I really want to do is have a running animation where the shield is held out in front, as if yo ram people with it while the weapon is held behind and pointing UP (as opposed to the back and down orientation of Ninja Run). I'll see if I can't get a screenshot from the source material that inspired me to want this again.
I am all for a new Shield stance. I'll pay up to 100 PPs for it!


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterminal View Post
May I ask what visual effect, specifically, you are trying to accomplish (i.e. charging into battle, constantly being on your guard, etc.)? There may be a way to work around it. (For example, I found that by using the new Super Strength animations for Jab, Punch, and Knockout Blow, I could effectively make a character that looked as if it was using the Shield offensively as well as defensively).
The look I'm trying to achieve is best described as "turtling" in gaming vernacular. You can't tell from the screenshot, but Spiral Knights provides a pretty cool option to turtle - you hold the shield up front, take cover in your forcefield and then manoeuvre around the battlefield in relative safety (relative, because those fields can break). That's kind of what I want - the ability to move around with my shield out, approach my enemies with shield in front and circle around them with a shield between me and them.

Oh, sure, I know this doesn't make me any better protected. The game doesn't care. Then again, having a larger sword doesn't make my damage better, but I sure as hell "feel" like I'm hitting harder It's a presentation thing. I don't mind the stats as they are, I just want the game to look the part a little more.

And while I understand that it may look awkward to always have a shield up front given how Shield Defence doesn't permit you non-combat stances, I think allowing this stance as either an option or some kind of extra, no-stats movement toggle would solve that problem. People will still default to the same existing run and stance animations, but those who want a more "turtling" approach to shield defence can use that, instead.

Hell, I'd use Ninja Run, but it has a few problems with it:

1. It comes with stats attached, which I don't want, and it comes with a COST attached, which I definitely don't want or need.

2. It's TOO goofy, even for me. The crouch is too low, the stance sway is too wise and the run is too silly. Good for an exaggerated anime ninja, but not for a large burly character with a heavy axe and a big shield.

3. It's not entirely appropriate for a combat stance, because the off-hand weapon is held far, far behind. Good for running so you're not swinging a sharpened stick around, but bad for standing still, because if you want to attack with a sword or an axe held WAAAY back like that, it'll be unwieldy and slow, or at least looks like it would be.

If Freedom really is going to bring us more stuff, then I hope movement animation customization is in there, and something for Shield Defence is included.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.