Revising ancient arcs


Doctor_Gemini

 

Posted

Yeah, I do mean ancient.

Just re-ran one of mine - Tsoo Faced, arc 1120 (no, no numbers missing from that) - to see if anything had broken lately. Fortunately, no - the arc was rather simple to begin with. (And also buried early.)

Mostly looking for suggestions/ways to liven it up a bit without making it overly gimmicky or anything. Re-running it after a good space of time, I don't think it's really presenting the story as well as I'd hoped (or making it quite as obvious.)


 

Posted

Having played and enjoyed your arc a couple days ago, I couldn't come up with any suggestions to liven it up, but since no one else has made any either I'll give you a few thoughts.

I'd say it mainly needs polishing. A level range (since right now it bounces between missions that can be played at level 15 - 40 and missions that are only level 40), some color in the mission dialogs, and a few tweaks (for instance, the 3rd mission your goals are stated as "4 bodies, Artifact", which leave the player kind of scratching his head).

I liked the general idea of the story but it seemed like more needed to be said. I can't really put my finger on anything specific, but I felt like I was following the story along as much because I was filling in the blanks as from what I was being told. Given that you can fit alot more dialog in now than when you wrote it, expanding on what you tell the player is the main suggestion I have.

One last thing, and this may just be my own preference, but running around on giant outdoor maps (whether in AE or in Dev missions) I find more tedious than fun. I'd replace the second use of that map with something more like the mausoleum map (I'd even enjoy a cave more than running that map twice).

Of course, I have simple tastes. Any mission that feels like it could be dropped into the CoH world and be nearly indistinguishable from dev content works for me.


@Doctor Gemini

Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.

 

Posted

Thanks. Yeah, taking advantage of a few things that have come along since that was written would help.

It's that whole "Can't put my finger on it" that has me too, though. It needs... *something.* And since I can't add a fountain made out of bedpans to it (five points for figuring out that reference...) figured I'd throw it out there for ideas.


 

Posted

Yeah, it needs some work....*cracks knuckles.* Ok, here goes:

This arc does look dated. It's very bare-bones, which we could get away with back then, but now, not so much for a lot of people. Uneven level ranges spread cooties and may contribute to global warming. I suggest replacing the high level Banished Pantheon with your garden variety low-level Banished Pantheon and making the whole arc 20-30. Story-wise it fits that range, and Tsoo at those levels aren't full of *$!?# Blue Inks, and are more fun to fight. I wouldn't use the "custom critters" tag for it either, since I counted a grand total of one custom critter. Using the "magic" tag might be a good idea though.

The story itself progresses fairly logically, although there are a few rather jarring jumps that could be smoothed over...more on that later. At some point it's also mentioned that the CoT bound the Sleeper....did they? I think that's wrong, might wanna double-check.

The contact needs a bio. He doesn't really have much in the way of personality either, he's just kinda the "do this" guy....if that's his sole purpose that's fine, but at least tell us who he is.

There's a bit of tone dissonance throughout as well, in that it's a fairly serious "stop the bad guys from doing bad stuff" story but you threw in a bunch of puns and "why don't bad guys ever conduct rituals on sunny beaches?" jokes seemingly for the heck of it. The two don't really mesh. I'd also watch the "you think"-type dialogues.

Now, mission by mission, what could be improved:
Mission 1: The Inventory blinky would work better chained off the empty crate, I think. Also, to make the mission more interesting, you could throw in a few patrols with dialogue, some captive workers, or some artifacts that were left unstolen, to further emphasize the Tsoo's interest in this particular artifact.

Mission 2: I walk in and get "investigate Circle presence" in my nav bar...one guy doesn't make for much of a Circle presence. Perhaps throw in a few CoT/Tsoo battles and have the contact mention that the CoT have been seen in the area, so your character knows to look for them. Appolonix could stand to be more arrogant. Xob Laim *says something that sounds like a chant* doesn't ring right. Some actual arcane-sounding fake words would work better.

Mission 3: "If you can get that artifact, even a piece away from either side...." sounds awkward and should be reworded. Again, the nav bar says "4 bodies" but how is the character to know they're looking for bodies? Also, when you have multiples of a blinky, the clue drops from the first one. The way the bodies clue is worded would work if it dropped from the last one, but not the first. I think you need to tweak the collections....perhaps make only one required body, put it in the back, and put a bunch of optional bodies up front, leaving them off the nav bar? The Artifact spawned up front for me, although with the clue suggesting I've already found the bodies it should be in the back, so I will find the bodies first. There's also a mention that the final piece was found before Xob Laim disappeared...huh? That needs to be cleared up a bit.

Mission 4: The first jarring jump in the story. Out of nowhere my contact gets a phone call from Tou Vue who is suddenly willing to work with outsiders to take care of an internal Tsoo problem. Maybe you could add Tou Vue as a captive in mission 3. That way the player is directly involved in brokering a truce instead of having it happen off-screen, and it would be a nice excuse to add some Tsoo patrols set to Rogue as well, to directly show a Tsoo vs Tsoo conflict. Xob is all sneaky sneak now...nice touch. Very Banished Pantheonesque. And....OMFG WE'RE ALL DOOOOOMED! The whole thing kinda goes from "Tsoo artifact-stealing plot" to 11 in about five seconds. If waking up the Sleeper was that easy, why haven't they done it yet? I think the immediate consequences if Xob succeeds might need to be dialed back a little bit, with waking up the sleeper as more of a long-term goal.

Mission 5: I'm told that Tou Vue was snatched, but he was right behind me a minute ago....It's jarring because the intent seems to be to go straight from mission 4 to mission 5. To that end, I'd suggest switching to one of the newer Banished Pantheon mausoleum maps. The Artifact still has its default description. I'd also suggest adding a few more objectives, maybe some ritual-conducting guys I need to defeat or something, just to make the mission a little more interesting and climactic.

Looking back over this post, it's very critical....on the plus side though, I do think you should revise your arc. I didn't actually rate it in game, since you seem to be planning to improve it.


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

The two bits I can directly respond to (the rest... yeah, I know, it is "that wasn't possible just then," which is part of what I'm looking to update - getting other eyes on it, as well, so I have a laundry list to go through.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
The story itself progresses fairly logically, although there are a few rather jarring jumps that could be smoothed over...more on that later. At some point it's also mentioned that the CoT bound the Sleeper....did they? I think that's wrong, might wanna double-check.
Dark Astoria dialog shows COT having *very* good knowledge of the Sleeper being bound and being aware of those bindings being affected - and working to reinforce them to counter the BP rituals. To me, at least, it's strongly inferred.

Quote:
The contact needs a bio. He doesn't really have much in the way of personality either, he's just kinda the "do this" guy....if that's his sole purpose that's fine, but at least tell us who he is.
Fairly certain I used an in-game contact, Kong Bao - who gives Tsoo missions anyway - for the contact, since he's tied with them in game. Never checked to see that the in-game bio transferred, I suppose. I'll have to snag it - he is supposed to be the same guy from Skyway, after all.

Thanks for the input - like I said, working on a laundry list to freshen this up.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Dark Astoria dialog shows COT having *very* good knowledge of the Sleeper being bound and being aware of those bindings being affected - and working to reinforce them to counter the BP rituals. To me, at least, it's strongly inferred.
I did a brief search on Paragonwiki and now I'm confused. It was Tielekku who banished the Banished Pantheon a long long time ago...but Lughebu found out about the Sleeper recently. This implies that the Sleeper has been sleeping longer than the Banished Pantheon has been banished....which would likely predate the CoT and would probably be beyond their power level anyway. Lore contradictions confuse me. I can see where you might draw that inference, but frankly, that's a whole arc in and of itself.
Quote:
Fairly certain I used an in-game contact, Kong Bao - who gives Tsoo missions anyway - for the contact, since he's tied with them in game. Never checked to see that the in-game bio transferred, I suppose. I'll have to snag it - he is supposed to be the same guy from Skyway, after all.
No, default bios don't transfer, or at least didn't when you published the arc. If he's a canon contact then I must have done his missions a bunch of times....shows how memorable some of those contacts are. Giving him more personality would be totally out of character


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
I did a brief search on Paragonwiki and now I'm confused. It was Tielekku who banished the Banished Pantheon a long long time ago...but Lughebu found out about the Sleeper recently. This implies that the Sleeper has been sleeping longer than the Banished Pantheon has been banished....which would likely predate the CoT and would probably be beyond their power level anyway. Lore contradictions confuse me. I can see where you might draw that inference, but frankly, that's a whole arc in and of itself.
Eh... It doesn't really say specifically. The BP (and the whole banishing war) took place over in Africa, after all. There's no telling when the Sleeper was bound (and/or put to sleep.) The old Prima guide actually names him as Mot, but where they got that information, I don't recall. People keep confusing it with Adamastor, as well, but that's a completely different creature.

It's quite possible that the Sleeper was totally separate, and just (relatively) recently discovered by the BP. It is an *old* creature, though.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Eh... It doesn't really say specifically. The BP (and the whole banishing war) took place over in Africa, after all. There's no telling when the Sleeper was bound (and/or put to sleep.) The old Prima guide actually names him as Mot, but where they got that information, I don't recall. People keep confusing it with Adamastor, as well, but that's a completely different creature.
I'm pretty sure I've seen him named as Mot also, but that could have been second-hand information that someone got from the Prima guide and has been accepted as canon. Until stated otherwise, I will keep calling him Mot.

Quote:
It's quite possible that the Sleeper was totally separate, and just (relatively) recently discovered by the BP. It is an *old* creature, though.
Yep, that's why there's a few in-between steps between what has been stated in canon and "the CoT bound Mot" hypothesis. The CoT are old but they're not Great Old One old. Then again, Mot could have been running wild and free until they got tired of him doing that and put him to sleep....and even if he was like that when they found him, the CoT have been here for a while, plenty of time to study the existing bindings and make sure they stick.


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

Just redid two of my own. Had to stop using one map entirely, but I'm actually much happier with the way the reboot worked out. Took some work to rewrite the climactic mission, but turned out to be worth it.


 

Posted

OK. Think I have the first round of revisions and tweaks done, if someone'd be so kind as to zip through this again.

Should be maxing out at 30.

Also don't have Tou Vue accompanying you on the third mission - so there's time for him to be captured, we'll see if that makes any sense.

Haven't quite decided what to do about the bodies in the middle yet.