Debuff Set Comparison

So we're not counting debuffs as debuffs anymore. This thread is so confusing.

Actually I think Garent did a very good job of laying out what he was trying to do. The problem with including Oil Slick Arrow in the analysis is that there isn't necessarily a good way to quantify what the KB means. How do you provide that as a number? How do you compare the KB in oil slick arrow to the KB in Repulsion Bomb? And how does this actually translate into defending the team. Granted, that is also a problem with the presentation of -recharge as it is also hard to quantify exactly what it means in practice, but rather than providing meaningless numbers, Garent opted to eliminate KB from the analysis.

If you have a proposal for how to integrate KB into Garent's analysis that does not require undo work on his part, I'm sure he'd love to hear it. If it does require a tremendous amount of work, I would encourage you to undertake the endeavor yourself, and if you lay out your methodology clearly, I'm sure he would consider including it in the analysis.

It's only confusing to people who want to do this ---> <--- in threads.

Everyone else didn't have a problem reading (and understanding) the OP.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

I think you're too easily pleased from your first sentence. I would concentrate on the complete powerset if it were me. I know how to play my Trick Archer, in any given team make up, I know what I can offer other powersets because I know other powersets but its upto the players in the team whether or not they want make the most of it. Some people have one dynamic no matter what the defender. This means I can decide on two things either people fail using a TA for support or TA just doesn't have the goods.

Its a rare circumstance where I find that TA didnt have the goods. Now that could come down to the server my TA is on, a server where TA is welcomed without a moments thought and people in general know how to play their toons.

When I look at TA I look at the controls too and they count, you can't just compare debuffs and leave stuff out and the whole set has to fulfil a concept, the way it should be used to defend a team should be to that concept. In that it definitely suceeds. It's as good a defender to me as any. Every defender has its niches if people cant play to them, then its not upto the Devs to fix say the TA set and give it heal arrow. It used to be that I thought AV fights took too long but even now with all the changes in other areas of the game I wouldn't be so sure anymore.

I play all other support sets and am still pleased with what my TA brings. If anything to me Sonic or Poison would be sets I'd look at. As I understand it Liquefy would of been on a shorter recharge timer if it weren't for controllers and poison trap from the poison set is one of the most skippable things I've seen on a set which might do with no skippable powers. So on one hand there is sonic, which I have but don't feel brings enough to the table and on the other there is a skippable power in Poison which I'd like to know the bright idea behind.

The devs should know what theyre basing things on from their more refined datamining. It's easier just to say "These are what I play and out of them I feel that such and such is underperforming in various described scenarios". In truth there are more AVs I'd happily rely on a TA for than there are with Sonic.

I think you expect too much from this debuff set comparison. I think that the intention was to quantify the aspects of the debuff power that can be quantified. I don't necessarily agree with using this to extrapolate out that certain sets are lacking, because as you say, the sets need to be considered as a whole, not just as particular debuff powers. However, for what it is, I think this is helpful.

As I explained, I would have tried to find a way that provided an easier way to compare the relative debuffing aspects against each other, but I think this is a very good start. I think your method of relying on personal anecdotes is somewhat problematic because if I relied only on anecdotes, then I would have to believe that with all the nerfs, the base accuracy in the game is currently negative. Is there a place for subjectivity, yes. But I think the objective quantification is important too, and although we've had lots of subjective analysis over the years, I think the objective analysis has been fairly limited on this front.

I only quantified the parts that were quantifiable. I leave it up to the reader to put them into context within the whole set. All sets have advantages they possess that aren't mentioned here. Rad doesn't have to reapply its debuffs as often as other sets in AV fights, so it can spend more time blasting. Storm, Ice, and TA have knockdown patches. Dark Miasma has a cone fear. So on and so forth.