Things to fix on Stalkers

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

... um...

It already works this way. Are you sure you don't have something else going on?

Yes, I did just test this to make sure I wasn't remembering wrong. Level 22 stalker. (Dark/Nin.) Hidden, not engaging. Placated enemy (22 Capo Muscle,) stood there - placate lasts 14 seconds. Stood there for a minute. Placated again. Zero aggro.

Tried it on multiple other enemies as well, scrapyarders, Marcone boss, etc. Same thing. No reaction when Placate wore off.

Now, they will *react* - if they have an "I'm attacked!" line or something, they'll say it - but they won't attack you.

Edit: Also, some confuse powers *will* draw aggro. (Seeds of Confusion, specifically.) But they have another component to them anyway.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Yes, this is an age old trick (at least as old as the change to Placate not notifying mobs): Rikti spawn that has a clicky you need to pick up. The spawn has their backs turned but the instant you turn the corner, that drone will start shooting you. Just placate it, hop over them and mouse the clicky. Problem is many rikti spawns have more than one drone...

Suggestions 1 and 2 sound wishful rather than impactful. It's akin to saying "My suggestion = make people like Stalkers. The end." The issues brought up are already know but apparently they aren't as simple to fix as saying "Fix nao".

3 might be possible but not in that way. I wonder if they could simply tag Stalker debuffs as granted temp powers so that, despite the foe being debuffed, it'll aggro as if it debuffed itself. Not sure what other kind of effects this would have (because I just thought it up) but it'll probably allow the Stalkers debuffs to seem to not discriminate vs foe level (weaker foes wouldn't be debuffed greatly but harder foes will feel it as if hit by an even level foe). Just for reference, this is how demoralize works and it's a debuff that doesn't draw aggro.

For 4, I think, if we're talking purely offensive, making the Hidden effects it grants unbreakable unless the stalker takes an offensive action would be a simple solution, IMO.

1 and 2 are impactful, in the sense that they don't penalise Stalkers for things beyond their control. It's kind of odd that a Stalker can sometimes prefer to NOT defeat an enemy so that other enemies will be debuffed, when really, the ultimate goal of Assassin's Strike should be to kill as big a thing as you can get away with in one hit. It can't one-shot everything, obviously, but that should be the ideal goal. Allowing the beduff to fire whether an enemy survives or not gives Stalkers use of one of their stronger utilities at all times.

Beyond that, I've faced the problem of shared aggro pretty much every time I've teamed. If I'm late to assume my position next to what I'll be assassinating and a team-mate of mine starts the fight first, I will almost always have an enemy peel off and attack me before I've been able to pull an Assassin's Strike off. Luckily, they usually miss, at least against my defence-based Stalkers, but the point remains - if they have no way to know I'm not there, they shouldn't attack me. I have no problem with enemies attacking me if I ran away to rehide and tried to assassinate that boss my team-mate is fighting, since then I'll have revealed myself beforehand. But being attacked without ever taking part in the fight is just... Ugh...

And, yes, "I'm also aware that not all of these are possible, but I intend to list them anyway." From the original post.

Characters can resist their own powers, which is why most of our self-buffs are tagged as "Unresistable." It might be problematic when it comes to Pool and Epic powers, however, since Stalkers would then need to have their own custom versions of the things.

More generally, though, what I dislike about this bug isn't that enemies won't stay placated, but that they will only stay placated under what is almost arbitrary rules. I've had instances where I can placate an enemy, walk around a corner and that enemy will never come after me. I've had instances where I'll placate an enemy and run far away, and that enemy will take off after me as soon as the Placate wears off. You can tell what the enemy will do, in fact, based on how he reacts. If the enemy drops to non-combat pose, then he won't remember you. If he stays in combat pose and keeps rotating to face you but not attacking, he'll resume firing as soon as the Placate wears off.

Frankly, I find the ability to Platace one enemy and then run around a corner, pulling the fight away from him should be a staple in a Stalker's arsenal, but as it stands right now, it only works under very contrived circumstances. Again, a Stalker is tripping over his own feet.

Plain making the Hidden status not breakable by being attacked is one of my ultimate dreams, but I both don't expect to see it happen and I don't think we can call it suppressing on taking damage a "bug" that needs to be "fixed." It would certainly make Stalkers less irritating and remove the advantage defence sets have, but that's not what I was aiming to fix here.

My problem is with Placate, in that probably 2 times out of 3 I'll get my Hidden status granted by Placate interrupted before the Placate power has even finished animating. Yes, I still placated an enemy, but half the power's effect comes in giving you a Hidden status with which to score a Hidden critical, and it simply gives no guaranteed window of opportunity to do so. Hell, I've had my Hidden status interrupted by the enemy I Placated

Basically, I want Placate to ensure that I have at least the opportunity to attack while still Hidden if I act fast, but not necessarily the opportunity to walk 20 yards and hit an enemy on the other side of the room while a Marcone Capo is unloading his Tommygun on me.

Incidentally, Placate's Hidden status WILL NOT interrupt from DOT effects resulting in from a power that hit before Placate triggered. So if you're under the effect of a Capo's Full auto and you Placate after it has started, you won't lose your Hide status to his rolling DOT. This is kind of how I want to see attacks during and shortly after the animation handled on the player's end - a period of unsuppressability that lasts, say, 1 or 2 seconds after the animations has finished, just enough to act.

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As for Placate causing aggro, I could be wrong or operating on old information. I could swear I've seen it cause aggro, but I may be wrong. If I am, then Point 5 is already true and fixed

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Then you understand that requesting this bugged feature, not intrinsic to the AT but affects every character equally, to be fixed is more of a 'wishful' suggestion rather than an 'impactful' one. If this ever gets fixed, it won't be a 'fix on Stalker' but a fix to stealth/aggro in general. And the likelyhood of it actually being fixed anytime soon?

...but for general play, if you're trying to get AS off, general rule of thumb is do it quickly or move back and wait. If a target peels off onto you (use an object or corner so they literally have to run up to you), you take care of them or placate and find your target fast.



Didn't say they couldn't. But effects are resisted by resists and levels both, or the purple patch as it has been called.

And Stalker pools and epics are already different in that, attacks are tagged with criticals differently. Swapping out all their debuffs for granted temp powers would increase the amount of changes required which might be a big deal, but the power itself will already need to be different.

Not tripping over his own feet. Foes *shouldn't* be stupid. Some will be oblivious and some won't. In real circumstances, facing varied opponents, you must bring into consideration the intelligence level and perceptive abilities of the opponent. In game circumstances, some just aren't going to forget about you and you have to keep this occurrence within the breadth of possible scenarios as not to be caught off guard. I usually just expect the foe to always attack after placate wears.

But beyond that explanation, some foes just resist placate.

Just offering solutions that would most easily solve the problem. Even if the hidden effect granted was delayed, it would still be broken if an enemy attacks at the same time. So it's not really solving anything, if the problem being solved is aggro infringing on Stalker offense.

But rule of thumb in using placate is to literally wait until after the foe attacks and/or using soft control before using placate. Common sense really, but it's generally to be expected, even on defense characters, to have placate stripped if you simply use placate when you want to crit. You have to time its use.


There was a change, back when AS was also made to not cause aggro when it misses (or maybe this was before that change) for Placate not to draw aggro either. I remember long before, when I was but a young and hopeful Stalker, I would accidentally use placate since I placed them right next to eachother on my tray. Often times, accidentally using placate resulted in instant death or the need to run for the hills immediately. This was changed. I don't do it as often, but when I accidentally use placate to start now, nothing happens.

I have no problem with Placate resistance in much the same way as I have no problem with Confuse resistance or any other type. The problem is that Placate's full effect fails not based on resisting foes but rather based on circumstances which are often beyond your control. The easiest example is the Assassin's Strike Demoralisation effect - this is auto-hit on all targets around the surviving assassination victim and the debuffs last for a while. This in itself represents a buff which will cause an enemy to "remember" you after a Placate effect runs out. As well, many sets come with debuffs attached to every attack, such as Broadsword. Any enemy you hit suffers a defence debuff effect which causes Placate to goof.

This makes the mechanic far more complicated than it has any reason to be, and either dependent on blind luck or outright not working. I've pretty much given up on using Placate for anything more than a temporary reprieve from one enemy, because that's all it does almost every time I use it. And it's not a question of "some enemies are dumber than others." ALL enemies who are susceptible to confuse are susceptible to confuse at all times (external buffs notwithstanding). You can hit them, you can debuff them, you can kill their buddies, but these confused enemies will remain confused. Confuse effects don't have a random chance to work and a random chance to break on their own

No, no, I like your solution, but I don't think we could make an argument convincing enough to get Castle's descendants to hear us. And you are correct in that some kind of unbreakability of Hide is needed to make this work. In my original suggestion, I offered to place such unbreakability on Hide for one or two seconds after a Placate, so that you could Placate and have a small window of opportunity to act where you cannot be suppressed, after which things return to normal.

This isn't always possible, even absent of constant damage auras. With one enemy, this is easy. With up to three enemies, this is doable. With five enemies, however, they stagger their attacks between them in such a way that you often have no window of opportunity to get a Placate Critical off without one of them missing. And while I know that if I "just use Placate" with no sense of timing, it will probably get interrupted, but this is one thing I hope to change. City of Heroes isn't the right game for such split-second twitch reflexes. Yes, it's possible to time it. Yes, I've done it. I still want a more secure way to do so without relying on unreliable timing.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.