Kinetic Melee n00b

im afraid i dont know much of about KM but you seem to know alot about the game though you just got it , if you hadent said that you just bought it i woulda said you seemed like an experienced player just a lil comment

I was just going to suggest KM/SR

It works better than a resistance based set IMO cause of the stacking defensive types. Plus personally I'm not a fan of elec armor outside of tanks. With elec you'd generally more want enemies around you for lightning field to damage and to keep enemies drained. SR is nice I think cause you can just jump around and do whatever you well please, which is nice for the ranged attacks.

Don't get me wrong I like KM with elec armor, but i'd do it on a tank. With your resists higher, it makes more of an impact when using it as an AV tanker.

The SR though, pairing capped defense with the -resists, can actually make it one heck of an AV machine as well.

for example. On a brute with tough, you'd be looking at about 58%s/l resistance, 90% elec, 33% neg, and 45% fire/cold resistance. Lets say you're fighting a S/L AV, and have power siphon up as much as possible, meaning you'll have about lets say lowball 3 siphons on the AV at all times.

So for 1000 points of damage, he's going to hit you for 420 points of damage. Now figure he has for an even level AV 19.125% -damage, thats 339.675 damage. On the recharge build I made for the kin/elec brute he's got 14.4% s/l defense. So 14.4% + 47.5% = 61.9%, 100-61.9% = 38.1% chance to hit you.

339.675 damage x 38.1% chance to hit = 129.62%damage value per that attack.

Now looking to the SR:

1000, - the 17.5% s/l res. from tough = 825 damage. Now at the defense cap with SR, AVs have 7.5% base chance to hit you IIRC (used in the above equation so correct me if I'm wrong).

So that 825 damage times a .075 = 61.88%damage value per that attack. That is before the scalling DDR kicks in. My km/sr brute has 2177hp. So that's going to factor in, now for him to hit those 3 times it would take a 4th hit of that value to take you down. Now that's S/L, the brute may lose tough vs non s/l attacks, but the elec armor outside of obviously elec attacks has the lower resistances which will scale down a lot the effectiveness, not as noticed in the SR who still has the capped defense.

Granted, there are AVs that make one better than the other, but it generalized to an energy damage AV and certain psys like malaise, and most any others. the - damage really helps extend the durability of the SR's scaling resistances. Giving it a somewhat multiplicative effect, where on the elec armor it simply adds to it.

Now the elec armor, can't discount energize, which is nice, but the SR can easily pick up aid self which would push further than likely getting it on the elec armor would do.

My KM/SR brute also regenerates a shave over a tic every 3 seconds. (33.9 HP/S) So with the scaling resistances and high brute HP, really gives those AV misses a run for their money. A simple orange can go further than other things at this point. Also if you count that 5% resistance to all if you have the veteran buff pet, that really helps in this scenario when you're only fighting an AV so he's not killing your pet.

Here's the brute build I made. I didn't *focus* on fighting AVs with this build. Had I done so I would have dropped the ranged attacks (which i keep on this build cause i think they're fun) and picked up aid self, could easily drop a slot from the defense toggles, and picked up hasten somewhere, if mainly going for avs, duh forgot you could drop burst too. And focused a tad more on some endurance like using a miracle with a saved slot etc.

This is what dual builds are for :P.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

KM SR Brute: Level 50 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Quick Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(5), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), S'dpty-Def(40)
Level 2: Body Blow -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 4: Agile -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(7)
Level 6: Smashing Blow -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 8: Repulsing Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(9), Posi-Dmg/Rng(34), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 10: Focused Senses -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(11), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), S'dpty-Def(40)
Level 12: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(17)
Level 18: Burst -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(19), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 20: Evasion -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(21), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), S'dpty-Def(40)
Level 22: Power Siphon -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(23), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(23), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(48), AdjTgt-Rchg(48)
Level 24: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Focused Burst -- Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(50), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 28: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(31), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), TtmC'tng-ResDam(50)
Level 32: Concentrated Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 35: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 38: Weave -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(39), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), S'dpty-Def(39)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Build%(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(45), Numna-Heal(45)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A)
Level 49: Superior Conditioning -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(15), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(15), Heal-I(34), RgnTis-Regen+(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(13), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(17), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(31)
Level 4: Ninja Run

I was under the impression that each attack did the debuff, which would make sense

I recommend it. SR has scaling resists that compliment the -DMG very well.

Ah, but guess what? Each of your attacks has the -DMG as well and those do stack! KM is awesome.

So any one target can have 12.75% from Burst, plus 6.375% debuff from each individual single-target attack? Good numbers for single opponents and not bad at all for the rest of the group hit by the 12.75%.

Let's see some numbers: start with 200dps and a 38.25% damage debuff takes that down to 123.5dps. The base 50% chance to hit takes that down to 61.75dps.

Let's say you've got 35% resists to that damage type with no defense, you normally take 65dps without any damage debuff (200dps * .5 chance to hit * .65 after resists = 65dps). With the debuff, you take 40.14dps, which is 24.86dps better than not having the damage debuff. At 90% resistance, you get 10dps base without debuffs, which drops to 6.175dps for a savings of 3.825dps.

Looking instead at a 30% defense to that damage type or position with no resistance, you would normally take 40dps (200dps * .20 chance to hit = 40dps). With the debuff, you take 24.70dps, which is 15.30dps better than not having the damage debuff. At the softcap, the base expected dps is 10, which drops to 6.175dps with the damage debuff, for a savings of 3.825dps, which looks familiar...

The survivability on a non-IO'd build definitely favors the defense build, but that was true before the debuff, and by the same percentages, so the damage debuff doesn't favor either type. Against a hardcapped resistance or softcapped defense, both are exactly the same for survival. Try to factor in all the other benefits of any given secondary/pool power or determine any percentage of each damage type or position that might happen and all you get is a mess.

That said, I'd tend to prefer SR or Elec for KM. Both powers offer a 20% global recharge bonus, which really helps KM. SR is an easy positional softcap option, while Elec has nice typed resists, good exotic resists, can hardcap energy resistance, and has a self-heal power that increases regen and cuts endurance costs for 30s.

Not at all.

You don't really need it, but there are a few circumstances where it is nice to have.

It gives you gobs of defense for 2 minutes, which is helpful against enemies that have a lot of to-hit buffs, or higher accuracy than normal. It also massively boosts your end recovery and movement speed for the same duration, so if you find yourself getting drained (unlikely) or slowed (also unlikely) you have a power that will let you reduce or eliminate those effects.

Elude on a softcapped SR has basically been relegated to being that power you take when there's nothing else you want and when you have no slots to put into it. It can be useful, but it's hardly a critical power anymore.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Correct on Shadow Meld.

As to elude, it helps against to hit buffed enemies, not high accuracie'd ones the way the defense/accuracy equation works IIRC.

Actually they will favor the SR more, due to the scaling resistances. Since the resistance kicks in when you actually hit a certain HP percentage, and not in the meanwhile while that damage is kicking in, it gives you more incriments for the resistance to build up. Quirky I know, but that's what can make SR fun.