Ice/Ice Pros and Cons

I haven't ever rolled a controller before and was wondering what the pros/cons and dos/don'ts of an Ice/Ice troller.

Thanks

I assume you mean an Ice/Cold Domination Controller. Ice Control has strong AoE soft control (Slow, -Recharge, Knockdown) but it is probably the lowest damage controller primary. The single target Immob and Hold, the AoE Immob and the PB AoE Hold are pretty standard, but look nice. It has a ranged AoE Sleep power that most people skip but has its uses. The real unique things are: Ice Slick, the location-targetted AoE knockdown; Arctic Air, a toggle PB AoE mist with Confuse, Slow and Afraid (the foes slowly try to run out of the mist); Shiver, a huge cone of Slow and -Recharge; and Jack Frost, the Ice Man pet who has a ranged attack (snowballs) and attacks in melee with an Ice Sword and Freezing Touch, and has a slow aura. Jack is somewhat fragile and dies often.

Cold is a great debuff set with some team buffing and a couple of Storm powers thrown in. The two Ally Defensive Shields are often in demand. Snow Storm is a copy of the same power from Storm -- a foe targetted toggle AoE slow with -Recharge and -Fly (great on the ITF and for knocking Croatoa Witches out of the sky). Arctic Mist is virtually the same thing as Storm's Steamy Mist, a toggle PB AoE Stealth with some defense and resist. Sleet is almost the same thing as Storm's Freezing Rain -- it has some slightly different numbers but it is a huge defense and resistance debuff and should be used contantly once you get it. Infridgidate and Benumb are single target debuffs, and benumb is on a bit of a long recharge. Frostworks is the only power I haven't actually used . . . it is a single target ally Hit Point buff. Heat Loss is really awesome . . . hit it on a foe in a group, and not only do all teammates nearby get their blue bar refilled, but their Recovery Rate goes through the roof . . . it is not uncommon to hit the Recovery cap.

As far as the two together? You can probably skip either Arctic Air, Shiver or Snow Storm if you need to skip a power -- I think Shiver is the most skippable, but that depends on your playstyle -- others will tell you to skip Snow Storm or Arctic Air. I skipped Frostworks. The single-target Immob is skippable unless you need a ranged single target damage power. The AoE Immob will conflict with the knockdown in Ice Slick and Sleet for the first 12 seconda after Frostbyte has been cast, so if you take it, only use Frostbyte when you don't use the other powers.

You can alternate Ice Slick and Sleet to always have a knockdown field. Arctic Air pushes you into melee -- let the melee fighters initially establish aggro, then hit the foes with Ice Slick or Sleet (Sleet is better because of the debuffs, but Ice Slick will cause more knockdown), then run in to establish the effect of AA. (Slot AA with Confuse and EndRdx.) That combo will mitigate 60-75% of the damage taken by melee fighters. If you don't want to go into melee, you can stay back and use Shiver to apply Slow and -Recharge.

The combo will be a very team-oriented character -- you will be very slow if you try to solo. It should be an effective and thematic character.

I'm not sure I would suggest it as my first controller, (I generally recommend Ill/Rad), but it should be a fun character.

I have an Ice/Cold controller at level 16 now. So far so good. I was wondering if the immobilize conflicted with the knockdown in ice slick but I keep forgetting to pay attention. That makes the AoE immobilize a lot less useful.

I'm finding it a somewhat passive set. Once I've piled on the shields, set up an ice slick, and started the snow storm, there isn't a lot for me to do but stand there and radiate cold at people while waiting for the single target hold to recharge. Just as well, I guess. I run out of endurance pretty quickly if I try to use my vet attacks.

I use frostworks regularly now that I have it. I don't see a big impact, but the tank certainly doesn't mind the extra HP and I think it made a difference in a couple of close fights.

You may want to consider taking Chilblain and slotting it up for Damage . . . that way you have two single target attacks. As long as you Hold the foe first, the single target Immob can do damage and that's it. Chilblain is damage over time, but in the long run, the extra damage will probably have more of a benefit than Frostworks.

Level 22 and putting SO-level enhancements in Stamina will make a difference on your endurance. It is too bad you have to wait until level 38 for Heat Loss.

I have about 10 level 50s, and 3 of those have Ice Control as a set (2 Controllers, 1 Dominator). I like the set a lot, but it takes getting used to.

On a Controller, Ice Control is very reliant on teams until higher levels. It is also not really the safest Controller for a good period of the game. It can be a bit frustrating especially between levels 35 and 45 or so when it feels like every enemy has a mezz, confusion protection, or some kind of exploding PBAoE. However, if you build for the right kind of survivability, you can turn things around.

IMO the key to Ice Control is figuring out how to make Arctic Air work for you. This pretty much means you will be forced into the Psi App for Indomitable Will. The second hole you then need to close is your defenses--IMO, Ranged defense specifically. That's because your chief problem won't be enemies who hit you at melee range, but things shooting at you from outside AAs radius. You then back this up with slash/lethal resistance to absorb damage that does get through, be it melee orr ranged or whatever.

I've never played Ice/Cold specifically. Looking at the combo on paper, it seems like it would do ok. I'd probably miss the self heal my Ice/Rad has, but the extra endurance can't hurt.

Here is a sample, very cheap starter build of what Ice/Cold might look like at 50. This build isn't totally vetted and could be improved with more cash, but if you didn't want to spend much at 50 might be a starter point. FYI I'm not a huge fan of Frostwork and you could easily replace it with Heal Other and Heal Self here.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Rchg:30(A), BasGaze-Acc/Hold:30(13), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold:30(15), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(19), HO:Perox(50), Dmg-I:50(50)
Level 1: Infrigidate -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 2: Chilblain -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(5), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15)
Level 4: Ice Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(11), DefBuff-I:50(13)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf:50(A), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx:50(7), CoPers-Conf%:50(7), CoPers-Conf/Rchg:50(9), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(9), CoPers-Acc/Rchg:50(11)
Level 8: Frostbite -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 10: Glacial Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(37)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(36), DefBuff-I:50(36), Zephyr-ResKB:50(37)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(17), RechRdx-I:50(17)
Level 18: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(A), Zephyr-ResKB:50(19)
Level 20: Arctic Fog -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def:50(21), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(21), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(23), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25)
Level 22: Frostwork -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(31), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), Numna-Heal:50(31), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(34)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(37), RedFtn-Def:50(43), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(46), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(46)
Level 26: Glacier -- Lock-Acc/Hold:50(A), Lock-%Hold:50(27), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(27), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(40), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(40), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(40)
Level 28: Benumb -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(29), Acc-I:50(29)
Level 30: Shiver -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg:50(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg:50(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), EdctM'r-PetDef:40(34), C'Arms-+Def(Pets):30(34)
Level 35: Sleet -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(36)
Level 38: Heat Loss -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(39), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(39), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(39)
Level 41: Mental Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(43)
Level 44: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(45), RechRdx-I:50(45), RechRdx-I:50(45)
Level 47: Psionic Tornado -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Posi-Dam%:50(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 49: Mind Over Body -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A)

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It's too bad about frostworks. I had hoped it worked like Dull Pain, which is a fine power for regen scrappers. I admit I didn't bother looking at the numbers. I guess I'll respec out of it later. I appreciate all the advice. I just hit 18 and picked up the big sleep power. Probably not much use since I team almost all the time, but I've never had a mass sleep power before so I wanted to try it out.