Building an 'awesome' Scrapper


Aliana Blue

 

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Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
OK, reading this I do wonder if there's something you're missing here.

I responded because you stated implicitly that everything had a 5% chance to hit you once you're at 45% (or higher defense), and that is incorrect. That's only true if they have both a 100% accuracy (total) and a 50% base hit chance, and anything that's not a +0 minion will have more than 100% total accuracy. The 5% number is incorrect without getting into toHit buffs.
I'm not missing anything. I was (over?) simplifying it to illustrate that the only defense amount to worry about is 45% defense. I understand the mechanics of accuracy, level differences, attacks with inherent accuracy, and to-hit buffs. The main point I was trying to make is that we can't do anything to our defense to affect mitigation vs. increased accuracy, so ignoring it is acceptable when creating a build.


 

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define your `awesome`ness.


 

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Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
No way it does not take 2 billion inf to hit the soft cap. I bet that I could do it with 200 million at most if I'm impatient and buy it now.
Hmm. Sure, but are you also doing a 'good job' on your slotting overall (for however you or I would define that term)? You'll probably also buy recipes and craft them -- an assumption I'm not making about the OP's willingness to engage in. (I find generally in my circle of friends the folks who'll craft their own will also play the market and have no problem funding a more expensive build. YMMV.)

Just sayin. 2 bil is a very safe, yet reasonably achievable amount of inf for anyone to do a build on.


 

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Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
I'm not missing anything. I was (over?) simplifying it to illustrate that the only defense amount to worry about is 45% defense.
Which is the problem. Many player do not understand the mechanics behind the golden number of 45% defense. Your statements make it appear as 45% defense means you only get hit 5% of the time against any mob. It's the sort of thing that gets repeated over and over but folks who've never taken the time to read the actual explanations as to how players came to the 45% defense values. Not the sort of statement you wanna make to a player seeking advice.


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Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
Which is the problem. Many player do not understand the mechanics behind the golden number of 45% defense. Your statements make it appear as 45% defense means you only get hit 5% of the time against any mob. It's the sort of thing that gets repeated over and over but folks who've never taken the time to read the actual explanations as to how players came to the 45% defense values. Not the sort of statement you wanna make to a player seeking advice.
Going back to the first page, my original point was that building up to 45% defense is the easiest way to make a Scrapper "awesome". Most people don't need to know about the intricacies of the to-hit code. They just need to know that 45% is the magic number and going past it doesn't help in most situations. Do you really think a player who is new to the game will take the time to learn all the math behind everything? That is for min/maxers to do, not brand new players or people who have been gone a while.


 

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Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
Going back to the first page, my original point was that building up to 45% defense is the easiest way to make a Scrapper "awesome". Most people don't need to know about the intricacies of the to-hit code. They just need to know that 45% is the magic number and going past it doesn't help in most situations. Do you really think a player who is new to the game will take the time to learn all the math behind everything? That is for min/maxers to do, not brand new players or people who have been gone a while.
Precisely.

Quote:
At 45% defense, most enemies will only hit you about 5% of the time because their base chance to hit is 50%.
This is the statement that Uberguy took issue with. It's the sort of thing that can be damaging to a new player. It's one thing not to go into the intricacies of why 45% is sought after, but that statement is misleading.

The OP is trying to make a higher performing scrapper. That likely means the OP will not be facing even con mobs. Telling them that 45% means +3 mobs will only have a 5% chance to hit them is incorrect.

The intent and advice of your comments are not in question.


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Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
* Even then it's possible a +0 minion has an attack with > 100% base accuracy. I don't know of any examples offhand, outside of the AE.
Anything that has martial arts-like attacks or assault rifle-like attacks will have accuracy bonuses. Off the top of my head, I believe Council minions have them.

As to the idea of making a cheap high performance scrapper, I think my choice would be Katana/Invuln. When I get home, I will try to strip down my current Katana/Invuln build to its raw cheap essentials. It slots things like Pounding Slugfest and Pulverizing Fisticuffs, which makes it pretty cheap in general. But it also slots Scirroco's, which is a little more expensive (but not too bad). It has HOs because the build dates all the way back to I9 when those were not hard to get. I'm curious to see how cheap the core elements of the build can get, and I think I can go pretty low given how many slots are already slotted with relatively cheap enhancements.


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Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
The main point I was trying to make is that we can't do anything to our defense to affect mitigation vs. increased accuracy, so ignoring it is acceptable when creating a build.
Cool. Then know that while I am no longer trying to correct any misunderstanding you might have, I still contend that your simplification actually included an incorrect statement that I felt it was important to point out. I think you did good in pointing out the 10% of normal (average) damage thing, but bad in explicitly referring to things having a 5% chance to hit. Simplifications are good, but it's important to not let them be misleading.

Sorry to beat the horse, though. Consider it a minor pet peeve of mine. I run into folks all the time who are all like "damnit, I am totally past the softcap and this +4 AV was sure hitting me a lot", because they're unclear that even at the soft cap a critter like that would have had something like a 10.5% chance to hit per attack (assuming no accuracy bonuses), which is like 7/4ths of the chance a +2 minion would have to hit them.

Apologies to the OP for the sustained threadjack.

Edit: I should have read Desmodos' posts 1st. I could have then just agreed with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Anything that has martial arts-like attacks or assault rifle-like attacks will have accuracy bonuses. Off the top of my head, I believe Council minions have them.
Oh, yeah. Duh. Hm, do Broadsword wielding critters like Cimerorans get sword set bonuses? And then there's the lovely bow-wielding Wyvern mobs...


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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I've been remiss in saying thank you for this thread, especially for the build suggestions, I'm very impressed.


@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk

 

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Originally Posted by Dante View Post
I've been remiss in saying thank you for this thread, especially for the build suggestions, I'm very impressed.
If you post a build with your goals and restrictions, I'm sure people on these forums can help you make it better.