Alpha Slot for Fire/SS tank?

Hiya folks!

OK, I've been away from the game for a few months (pretty much since I19) and just returned to get into this whole incarnate thing and I'm pretty torn. I've unlocked my alpha slot and created a spirit and cardio enhancement (both tier 1) but want some help/advice before investing more materials in something that's not going to pay off. My tank is currently built to maximize melee defense and +recharge. My choices:

1) Cardio. Here, the +20% resist is appealing as with fire, most of my resists are well short of 90% except fire. I do run tough, but it seems like everything can benefit from the +20% resistance. I do use endurance, but consume makes the +end kind of redundant as I never run out of endurance due to the quick recharge time of consume. Thinking maybe reaching tier 2 of this for the 20% resistance bump for tanking REALLY heavy hitters (Recluse, etc) then moving on.

2)Muscles. Let's face it, Fire/SS gives up some survivability in exchange for some impressive damage figures. Bumping this figure is always appealing, although most of my attack powers are currently in the 90%+ damage range due to IO's and I really wouldnt benefit much from this until after the enhancement got high enough to exceed the ED barrier (t3, T4). Very exciting for farming as well as most typical TFs where the extra resist isnt needed and I can add some value to the team in terms of DPS compared to most tanks.

3) Nerve. Well with IOs, perma-rage and usually double rage, I've never had a problem hitting my targets. I don't see a lot of appeal to this one.

4) Spirit. Most of my key powers (healing flames, consume, burn, foot stomp, rage) are all at or near 90% recharge already, although most of my melee attacks are not. There is some fairly immediate value to this enhancement for that reason, and its the one I'm currently using just running around doing missions, etc. Otherwise, the appeal is breaking ED limits for recharge in particular with Healing Flames, Burn, and Footstomp as well as helping Rage stay double stacked once I get to T3/T4 status.

So, I see 3 of the 4 Enh providing some value to this character but I wonder if there are some considerations I should be taking into account that I'm not. My current plan:

1) take Cardio to level 2 to get 20% resistance enhancement
2) Torn between muscle and spirit, as neither will really provide any further benefit until the T3, T4 range.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

First off, understand that it's not 20% resistance, it's 20% of the value of the powers in question. They are also subject to varying amounts of ED. As such, Let's look at the value of it.

Fire Shield:30% S/L Resistance, 30% Fire, 10% Cold

Plasma Shield: 30% to E/NE/F

Tough: 15% S/L

So, totals give you 60% Fire Res, 45% S/L, 30% E/NE, and 10% Cold.

Slotting these with three even-level SOs gives you a 56% bonus to these, bringing them up to 93.6% Fire (capped at 90%), 70.2 S/L, 46.8 E/NE, and 15.6% Cold.

Let's add a tier 2 Cardiac Boost. It gives 20% Resistance. However, only 1/3rd of this bypasses ED. As such, you're only going to be getting about a 10% additional Resistance bonus from this Alpha.

This will bring your totals up to: 99.6% Fire (capped at 90%), 74.7% S/L, 49.8 E/NE, and 16.6% Cold.

As such, where it matters, you're only getting a slight resistance increase from the Alpha slot if you go for the Resistance Bonus.


Just something to think about.

That is exactly the kind of feedback I am looking for! I cant realistically chase 3 different incarnates at once, I need to figure out where to start. Thank you for the feedback. So, any suggestions about what I could get the most value out of?

I would say, based on your input, to go for the Recharge one. Sure, it may not do much good at the Tier 1 or 2 stage, but later on, it could be a nice boost to your longer-recharging powers, or powers that just don't have a lot of Recharge slotted in them already.

The other option is to build for Endurance, to lessen the number of times you need to waste time hitting Consume. Of course, if you're doing that, then you're getting the DamRes as a bonus, not the main thing you're shooting for.

I went Cardiac w/my Fire/EM for the end redux & resists. First off, I think if you're not running out of end, even w/Consume slotted well, you're just not firing off enough (PB)AoE attacks. Cardiac fixed that, plus now (currently T3) my S/L resists went from around 70% to 75%, as Aett illustrated w/math. I was already softcapped to S/L def, but still, it's a nice bump in performance, w/similar, though not quite as good, performances to E/N resists, way over cap for F and a tiny amount for C/Tox (for Healing Flames, only).

Of course, the other option is Spiritual for Healing Flames, for both the recharge & heal portion to go over ED. I didn't do the math, but it'd be nice. Being EM, I'd take full advantage of the stuns too, and Consume and all my AoEs would come up faster too, but I found my end bar suffering enough from all the WH > Burn > Fireball combos I was laying out, and Consume just didn't recharge fast enough to be a reliable way to keep up.

Nerve & Musc are sorta out of the question for me. For Musc, keep in mind, the bonuses are to your base stats. Assuming all your attacks are ED capped, at the T4 level, you're only getting a 30% bonus to your base (2/3 of 45%), which comes out to less than an SOs worth. So if you're doing 100 base damage, and are ED capped at 195-ish, and say you hit BU or FE to do 300 (ish) points of damage, now you're looking at a 10% buff to overall damage. Doesn't suck, but when compared to infinite end or perma-Hasten, I don't think it adds up.

Awesome input, thank you!

Last night I just got the 3rd tier spiritual on my fire/SS. He's become my main toon lately, so I spent a decent amount on IO's for him (zero purple or PvP sets, but still a lot more than I've spent on any other toon).

He was already good on endurance (running out is basically impossible unless hit with end drain), so I went with the Spiritual. I do have to admit, the first couple levels didn't make much difference, but it was slightly noticeable. The 3rd tier definitely makes it more noticeable. Keep in mind, it also increases your healing, so healing flames becomes stronger, as well as your regen.

But to be honest, the level shift is arguably the most valuable aspect of the Alpha anyway. At least from my very short experience last night.

I'd like to chip in and say it depends on how you're slotted. For example, I went crazy with Obliteration sets for the SL defense set bonuses, so Blazing Aura and Burn, while fast recharging, aren't exactly light on endurance to use.

Sure, you have consume. But maybe, like me, you have it slotted so that it's only up once a minute, and that just doesn't really cut it--especially if you run into sappers.

Cardiac will lower a consumption rate of 1.14+ish to about .70, on the rare version. Plus, your SL resistance will go from 70% to 75%, which is quite nice.

If you have absolutely no endurance issues, the resistance alone isn't enough to warrant Cardiac, so I would then pick something else.

If you posted your build, I'm sure we could be a bit more able to pick out what would help you the most.

I've gone with the Cardiac for my Fire tank - another benefit is that the end reduction allows you to overslot for resistance instead of end reduction. I'm well aware that normally it's not worthwhile to go beyond ED, but with the t3 cardiac my smash/lethal res is sitting at 82.5%, or in other words taking just over half as much smash/lethal damage as normally. Another side effect is that E/N resists are 55% instead of 45% - not quite as noticeable, but still a nice perk.

If you care to go for the PVP IOs that grant extra resistance, capping smash/lethal resistance is actually quite feasible, though this has been out of my budget range so far.

Admittedly, part of my motivation for this was that I already have defense based scrappers, so I didn't feel like building for defense set bonuses yet again. As such, you may want to take this option with a grain of salt.

Good point about posting my build. I've already hit T3 Cardiac at this point, and I think I'll work on Spirit next.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ghostly Vengeance: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctvArm-EndRdx(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), S'fstPrt-ResKB(5), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(7)
Level 1: Jab -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Healing Flames -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal(11), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), FrcFbk-Rechg%(23)
Level 6: Blazing Aura -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Oblit-%Dam(19), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(21), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(25)
Level 8: Consume -- P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Krma-ResKB(23)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(29), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(29), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(31), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(31), Zinger-Dam%(31)
Level 18: Burn -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(33), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), FrcFbk-Rechg%(50)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 24: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), FrcFbk-Rechg%(39)
Level 26: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(40), RctvArm-EndRdx(40), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Rage -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(42), HO:Membr(42)
Level 30: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(43), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 35: Hurl -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(45), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Decim-Build%(46)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(48), Oblit-%Dam(48), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Rise of the Phoenix -- HO:Perox(A)
Level 44: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 50: Cardiac Partial Core Revamp
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-End%(42), P'Shift-EndMod(43)

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1401;695;1390;HEX;|
|78DA65935B6F124114C767B9B442A1057B81DEB9B4A5A5EDD2B57D32698C5A6B1A4|
|B44317D256B3BC246B220BB18FBE68B5F40A355E38751E3EDCB787934F1B29E3DFF|
|112F10E037FB9F9933E7FCCF4EF9DE4E4C88FBE78416BBD8341DA776C3B46FCB4EB|
|86CD6ADC3E4E546CB719BC7990369D7A5691FCA4121C42496D476E42D693B52DFB5|
|64E7B876BEDB31A7D54C5936A5D4ABDD368DAB6E8736BB8DE49EDD903474F5DF835|
|8A5D56AEAFBD26C5B763DCA0FD5B69447711EEE5AF5864B13497EDAB3EF5A8E75D3|
|6A5AEE71EA52DB3AD42F74BAAEAC555BDD66AD6C3A2EA590A6DC0AF47B15A13F8D7|
|EC20B8B9CE68B813920CF0865813461560CA4186B51A13E5E5054083931708D71EA|
|3A5065BC8EA8E0C20B6957686488E855609F11AB0065864E61836A7910618711761|
|86113083BF120E02F7F49D1C3581E0E7F6329F19371DA03FC688618FBCE4FE91F8C|
|37B46B90B3F202834F581A7BC4301E3326A86F1158A245C639B189AFC22FFB2D6D1|
|DC24C7008F6A4E1D9143C9B8259298A10476222BE2CFC08252A6D44E53A62F33933|
|2DA0CD98BB03740087F18E0E4CAA5D4954984169199496416959949645F5069D35A|
|A768DC2C62C6CCCC3C63C6CCC1F716A06DCCC51D2E3282E30BECA330BFF20400B52|
|AA3B29845D40D825845D42D825C40BD2F24965D624EC29C0AC02AC2BC0AC3394EDB|
|4EAC7F45942282856FEE3FB886F3F5A328B6C8A40884E995759CFA359C531C65A82|
|B119F57342D6B9137EEBD79E02CF18EBCF81178C2D5ABEA8BC5B84E3EB70BC04AB4|
|B30BE04C70D38FE81F25B560D5FDE46CE71CA6C5569ABC86C98245D493AA4119236|
|94B4016926D4BB5CF4A58F5809F52EA957EC9BDDE8538C3E65B34FD9EA53F6FB944|
|AA8777D85C64A24D1BBA1DE47B24AD3D4EC3A77E3F3DFD201B7F7D3DF12EEC2973F|
|5240CBB0B472C23E161F32FCA3BC6D7A850D55F42F4398E781|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Yeah, glancing at your build, I would probably go cardiac. I don't have mids on this computer, so I can't look at the actual numbers, but with that amount of recharge and those oblit sets....yeah, cardiac seems to be a good choice.

(I would move the proc for recharge to footstomp, but you didn't ask for build help )

This is going to sound really crazy... but Ill throw it out thier.

On my Fire Tanker I slotted Consume with Obliteration set.
Oblit has massive Recharge and solid Acc boost great for consume, and with the Damage boost + Proc it turns Consume into a pretty nasty attack.

Consume + FE + BU + Proc = Rather damaging attack. With the added bonus it recharges your End

It was nice running into a big spawn, Hitting FE + BU,, then dropping Burn, Frozen Aura + Consume. Everything died and you were back at 100% end.

As to slotting I definitely wouldn't under rate Cardiac on any primary Res based power set.

5% doesn't sound like much but it adds up. At the Very Rare stage your improving your S/L by 9.4%.. that puts you basicly at 80% s/l. Thats pretty high. On my Elec Tanker it cardic will cap me to 90%.

Cardiac or Spirtual are definitely the 2 to look at for fire.
Do you go down the More Resistance, better end efficency root.
or
Quicker recharger, bigger Heal root. (of course spaming Healing Flames is a perfectly effective way to tank things to. On my Fire Tanker if I leave Healing Flames on Auto Fire.. I can get 4 stacks of it for 80% Toxic resistance heheh).

Thanks for your input, fellas.

Breog - I don't really have the spare slots to 6-slot consume with oblits. With Burn and Footstomp recharging at 6 and 7 seconds, I have enough time to use them, bruise the boss, knockout blow the boss, maybe get in a kick or haymaker to try to trigger the +recharge proc, rinse and repeat. I really dont need consume for damage, but it is an interesting thought I have to admit has never really crossed my mind.

Stone Demon - moving the +recharge to Foot STomp breaks the 6-set oblit bonus of melee/S/L defense which the toon needs for tanking purposes. I know it sucks for endurance purposes (hence going Cardiac first) but the set bonus from Oblit are some of the best in the game IMHO and I wanted to capitalize on that where I could.

Very interesting point about the chance to proc for every opponent hit - i never considered that, figuring it was a flat % to proc per activation not per target hit. Might be worth giving up a small bit of defense for a greater chance at +100% recharge... Thank you for that!