Rad/Rad or Rad/Sonic IO Set Build


Garent

 

Posted

Hello, Defender gurus! I've relatively recently (close to a month now) returned to the game after a prolonged absence. I've leveled and been playing a Shield/Axe tanker, which I've very much been enjoying, but have decided I would also like to level a debuffer. I've decided on Rad, no questions, for my primary but am having trouble deciding between /Rad and /Sonic for my secondary. The "state of the forums" seems to have changed in the time I've been away, in that the guide stickies are no longer updated and most guides I've been able to find through search are very outdated (pre-Invention System).
Having never really played a Defender seriously before, I've been trying to do my homework best I can. The Res debuffs from /Sonic seem to be very nice, but /Rad looks to have a great deal of potential in that it supplies it's native Def Debuff and can, through IOs, also supply Res Debuffs via procs.
Assuming inf being no object, which of these two primaries would you suggest? Is there a secondary I've overlooked that maybe should be reconsidered? I plan to build this character as a great teaming debuffer, so soloing potential doesn't matter.
Lastly, any sample builds that anyone might have fitting what I'm looking for would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to everyone that responds and I look forward to any input you have.


 

Posted

Rad/Sonic.

Drop an achilles proc in Radiation Infection. Sonic does better RES debuffing than /Rad with achilles procs, and -DEF debuff in powers that require an accuracy check are fairly weak otherwise. You'd be better off picking up Tactics and running it.

There are some good explanations as to why in this thread:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=250877

As for sample builds, I can throw one together for you tonight. I'll even leave a slot for a travel power, promise! I'm no expert, but I know my way around mids and most of the powersets.

Also, check out Silas' guide to Rad Emission. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...39#post2354739


 

Posted

Heh, I actually read that topic on the /Rad debuffs right after making this topic; I'll check out that Rad/ guide now. Thanks for offering to throw a build together, I have Mids' but still fidn it somewhat overwhelming. If the power selections could be better used elsewhere, I'm comfortable not having a travel power; I don't have one on my new Tanker I've been playing and it doesn't bother me, Ninja Run with a Jet Pack for when I need extra vertical movement is perfectly fine for me. Thanks for the other tips, also!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlloyd View Post
Ninja Run with a Jet Pack for when I need extra vertical movement is perfectly fine for me.
A man after my own heart. I haven't picked up a travel power since NR was introduced, as well as early access to jetpacks from vendors.

The only drawback to this is on MO runs, but if you go with a team who doesn't mind TPing you, not a big deal.

edit: if you took hover for a defensive power (i tend to opt for CJ even if i were to cap ranged def, simply because I prefer that for mobility), the above point would be completely moot.


 

Posted

I love /rad, because your hard hitting blast also stuns with mag 3, which is perfect for sappers, healers on itfs, and many others. it has has a pbaoe and a targeted aoe. sonic is probably better debuff, but its cones, and one is a sleep lol.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theheat View Post
and one is a sleep lol.
I like sleeps. They're great for stopping ambushes and other adds, as well as disabling alphas in groups that are less than optimal.

With that said, god, the sonic sleep is awful. I find myself actually preferring to take the sleep from Psy mastery (as well as the hold+mind over body) if I so desired. At least it holds a cheap purp.

@OP: Had a rather hectic evening, I did get some stuff thrown together, albeit not finished. Do you have a preferred APP/PPP? If not I'll probably put in psi or power.


 

Posted

Hey, Youmu, sorry, i've been kinda busy today, too, and not able to check in on this again until now. Having looked at the Defender Epic pools, I'd have to say that Energy looks the best.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlloyd View Post
Hey, Youmu, sorry, i've been kinda busy today, too, and not able to check in on this again until now. Having looked at the Defender Epic pools, I'd have to say that Energy looks the best.
Fiddling with mids I was able to get ranged to 45% with energy APP, along with 65% S/L res, with some sacrifices to recharge and toying with the slotting a bit. I'd say 32.5% (small purple to cap) range might be a better choice, but that's up to you.

Let me know how you feel and then I'll post something up this afternoon.


 

Posted

It's not too hard to get perma-AM and perma-Hasten with a Rad/Sonic, I kind of miss mine but I left that server behind.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoumuKonpaku View Post
Fiddling with mids I was able to get ranged to 45% with energy APP, along with 65% S/L res, with some sacrifices to recharge and toying with the slotting a bit. I'd say 32.5% (small purple to cap) range might be a better choice, but that's up to you.

Let me know how you feel and then I'll post something up this afternoon.
Been having trouble getting logged into the forums today, sorry my response is so late. I'd probably have to agree the ranged would be better than the S/L; honestly, I'm really not too concerned with def/res on this character, but I do see the advantages to it in any situation. as I mentioned, I plan to team pretty much exclusively with this character, so it's just not the highest priority, is what I'm trying to say. Thanks again for the help!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlloyd View Post
Been having trouble getting logged into the forums today, sorry my response is so late. I'd probably have to agree the ranged would be better than the S/L; honestly, I'm really not too concerned with def/res on this character, but I do see the advantages to it in any situation. as I mentioned, I plan to team pretty much exclusively with this character, so it's just not the highest priority, is what I'm trying to say. Thanks again for the help!
Sorry for being unclear, it'd be:

45% Ranged def and 65%ish S/L res,

or

32.5%ish ranged def and 68%ish S/L with more recharge (perma-AM, .7 sec off perma-hasten)

While you certainly won't be running off soloing things, there are many times in teams where you won't have a big stack of DEF buffs, things will get loose and shoot at you, etc. Things that aren't being hit by RI, as well.

Anyway, I'll throw up the Rad/Son I came up with. This is what I would run were I to pair the sets. I've played Rad and Son separately but not together, so mostly combining my experiences with them.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Shriek -- Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(25), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/Dmg(37)
Level 2: Scream -- Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Decim-Acc/Dmg(9), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 4: Accelerate Metabolism -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(9), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 6: Radiation Infection -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), HO:Enzym(13), HO:Enzym(17), HO:Enzym(42)
Level 8: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 10: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11)
Level 12: Lingering Radiation -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(39)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Shout -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(39), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 20: Mutation -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Kick -- ExStrk-Dmg/KB(A), ExStrk-Acc/KB(42), ExStrk-Dam%(45)
Level 24: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(37), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(43)
Level 26: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(29), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit(46), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 30: Howl -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg(31), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Posi-Dmg/Rng(31), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 32: EM Pulse -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(33), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(33), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), Lock-%Hold(43)
Level 35: Screech -- Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(36), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(36), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(36), Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(37), Stpfy-KB%(40)
Level 38: Siren's Song -- CSndmn-Acc/Rchg(A), CSndmn-Acc/EndRdx(40), CSndmn-EndRdx/Sleep(45), CSndmn-Sleep/Rng(45), CSndmn-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 44: Power Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(48), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(48), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(50)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(3)



Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1590;766;1532;HEX;|
|78DAA594494F535114C7EFEB6B2DA52D6D69CB58A0200814286DD4382D8C0A262AC|
|5060C2BB579B68FF222B684D6006A020E4B5DB9700A4E1187950BA71857262AF801|
|1CA2C6E8077058BBA967B8144C9736F0FFBD77EEFF9C73EF797D8D4DF7398498DB2|
|E948A5DE35A2E97E8D347F54C4A9FB4C4B4B49114562144703996D8797C74343CA4|
|A50C2D6F643389FE63462E071781A26148CBA4F55478389B3192891DF9BC963CEAD|
|99319D327F54C3EBC7C618F67B3E3E1DDE3467A2C5F4ED7C313BA9E72D1E580AE41|
|A1DC9831E1641BBA8C4CBAB27FC24886E3D929E812D372797D72A606F6B611FEA74|
|C427E0A66B15F11222A4CFB08E641C29A186380F069B5FD2AA05DD45C21345F665C|
|23B45E227C06BB22ED0AAF94F18A8F93AB38AB8A6BCC805D257FC1A45E3461C3B20|
|B044797404CC38D85EBA9969770E3158E4D706756859B2844A7E40958B5B255B136|
|537627C306619BEC62F3D3B1CA7D0C37E114A4DA39D564E7C66EC6BA876468810A4|
|E59C1C92B15FFE02B547071058B6B9E4235D7B9C22DC60D42FB4D42F436C103653D|
|5C56F5F0C62A796395BC319F9770920E4E3EE1E5339920D52FB7EC9FA2F5CE6942F|
|70C410543B5DC727584CAB48608A14605676F0643AD6C5ECBCDEBB8791D370F7073|
|2FF8EAD967A9BF4F0F27B040E8B9CBB843E8BD47883E207C016D905F848667B4E5C|
|6478CC78CA784E013C22CD89BA4BDE923E506DF33DE119A3F10427FA8FA77D01639|
|EE96B3B4CDB5738CD38C337CE25942FB39C237C86A934DDA5EF1CA1B42F76BC622A|
|16789B0A80AD121BF501DFC98438C2558E992CFA38B436F211496D30CF3B87B79DC|
|BD3CEE283E8C06E1836946646A84A71E30175F31F8838F182889C4CDC5F74A28141|
|9440F37FCAFCF73C7722FDB5039E8019438CA08CA419443288751349423284994C2|
|8B62B66B336E680BCA56946D287E37C879745AF1FDB2A338509C2815282E14378A1|
|7A50E651EA560836495CF5CF801351465F5F97F96447EAD441465847FD2F6D2EC7F|
|AF5E09F2FBC388944C3A5412899644369444D697445626FC174D5C36DF|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Some numbers and explanations:

Ranged def is 32.7%, S/L res is 68.5. These will cut a good chunk of incoming damage.

Global recharge is over 170% with Hasten and AM up.

All of your attacks are accurate (note: the proc in tactics skews the numbers at a glance, remove it to see real values) enough to hit 95% vs +4s. Most of them are actually in the 120% range, and help cover critters with extra defense. "But I have RI, isn't this redundant?" is probably what most are thinking. I'd say, 'yes and no'. First of all, some of the bonuses can't be avoided. Recharge sets tend to carry them, for example. Second, you will come up against higher level, def debuff resistant mobs. You'll also come across those who debuff your accuracy. Lastly, you will be in situations where RI just doesn't get everything in the debuffs. I imagine you know this, but still felt it should be touched on. One could argue dropping tactics, but the bonuses it provides stack nicely with RI and it covers -PER. You'd be surprised how many teams I end up in at 50 where I'm the only person with tactics and they'd be blinded were I not present.

RI is a massive debuff and worth the Enzymes. If you can't afford them (not sure on the market value), just drop in some tohit debuff/end and def debuff/end IOs.

LR is permanent if facing a long lasting target.

Mutation doesn't need more than an end reduction. The cost is pretty hefty. If you dropped a Recharge IO it'd cut ~9s off. Only place to really pull one from is maybe dropping an enzyme from RI.

Boxing/Kick are usually a 'whatever who cares' choice, but kick is an oft overlooked place for a cheap shot of Ranged def.

Tactics: The build up proc won't help too much, but the entire set is a nice chunk of ranged def, as well as other good bonuses in the set. It also maximizes the two aspects you care about, and teams will love it. Together with RI, almost everything can be hit, even if your group mates fail at slotting accuracy. Those pesky defense carrying mobs, high level AVs, etc. Keeping in mind that said AVs resist RI, but can't stop this!

Howl: Can be a problem early game with getting yourself killed from aggro in teams, later on not an issue. Nice to pepper a spawn with hopefully before the big hits go in, like when the DM/SD brute is soul draining. Left for later intentionally.

Screech: This thing fires fast and chains nicely for -RES. From my experience with Sonic, the proc is NOT problematic in teams.

Siren's Song: Okay, not a fan of this power myself, but Sleep does have its uses, even if there are better sleep powers. It has a nice recharge set with room to grow into an extremely cheap purple.

Rest of the picks/slotting should be fairly self explanatory.

As for things I've skipped? Well:

Choking Cloud: Massive cost and just not worth it in this set up, IMO.

Fallout: Situational, can be fun. Replace Siren's Song and slot 5 posi blast.

Amplify: Just not needed, plenty of accuracy and -def debuffs as it is. Sure, you can hit a bit harder, but this would be more for soloing, IMO.

Dreadful Wail: You already get one power in the set that crashes you (em pulse). I don't like crash nukes on defenders, personally. EM pulse is a special case, though. If you want it, replace sleep and slot with 5 oblits. Fallout would be a better pick, in my mind.

Think I covered everything. If you want to cheapen things, swap all of the lotg def/end/rech to red fortune def/ends. You lose acc, but that's to taste/wallet. Again, this is what I, personally, would do and my reasons for doing so.


 

Posted

Thanks again for the build help. When I get home, I'll toss it in Mids' and maybe play around with it a bit then get to leveling! Thanks, also, for the explanations as to some of the choices you made; much better than those that are "This is how you should do this, no questions asked."...granted, this game tends to (mostly) have a much better community than that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlloyd View Post
Thanks again for the build help. When I get home, I'll toss it in Mids' and maybe play around with it a bit then get to leveling! Thanks, also, for the explanations as to some of the choices you made; much better than those that are "This is how you should do this, no questions asked."...granted, this game tends to (mostly) have a much better community than that.
No problem, I enjoy doing this. I spend about as much time in mids as I do in game, probably! Should get some input from others on this, as their opinions/insight may differ and provide more information.

Also, I did not build this with the consideration of exemplaring, although I don't see why it would be a problem aside from loss of set effects.


 

Posted

With most IO sets, I usually shoot for around level 30 or 35. Not a huge difference between there and 50, taking into account ED, and they also tend to be cheaper and allow exemping to 25-30 and still having active set bonuses. Of course that doesn't work for things like purples and such, but for most it does.

Edit: Also, I probably will drop the sleep for Fallout. Personally, I've never been a big fan of sleep, especially in team settings. As you mentioned, though, it'd be nice for a relatively cheap purple set. I guess I'll see for sure when I get there.


 

Posted

Yeah, sleep is really a YMMV, acquired taste, sort of thing. I generally fit it in for a cheap purp and the situational uses. Unless you're elec control, then it's just awesomely awesome. Fallout is really great if you have squishy melee, though!

Especially on AVs, nuke the AV and then rez the dead melee for another round, fun stuff.


 

Posted

I could be wrong, but I'm expecting Vengeance>Fallout>Mutation to do magical things.

Edit: BTW, I did switch out Hover for CJ.


 

Posted

It does magical things unless the person is very quick to self-rez (or someone else hits them). Just tell the team, 'hey, i have vengeance, fallout and mutation, if you die in melee just give me a few seconds'.


 

Posted

Radiation blast has better area damage, but sonic blast is king of single target. As far as pure performance goes, sonic definitely wins. Youmu seems to have already covered everything sonic related though.


 

Posted

I do like Sleeps on a rad defender for a couple of reasons;
1. Your debuffs won't wake the mobs, so all you have to worry about is a boss as you are setting them up. Mainly handy in a situation without a tank, but that can include things like stealthing missions and clicking glowies with spawns around them, such as speeding through TFs.
2. More and more high level missions and TFs these days have ambushes. Sleeps are good for shutting those down till more of the team is available to handle them.

On my rad/rads I take Mass Hypnosis, psi epic, for that reason, but they predate the availability of sonic by many years. I think the /rad secondary is a bit more fun, and against most spawns puts out more damage because its more AoEs, but most teams can steamroller most spawns anyway. The pacing items on high end TFs tends to be taking down hard targets like AVs, and its unarguable that /sonic is better then /rad for that.

On the sonic, consider taking the ST stun, its not as good as Cosmic Burst for rad because it doesn't do any significant damage, but theres just times you want to stop a lt (or with a couple shots a boss) from doing whatever its doing faster then you can with damage, being a defender. Plus it takes a (relatively) cheap purple set.