What if stalkers had sniper attacks?
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2011-01-30 21:53 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Only time I've used a sniper attack is for long range pulling, or on one defender, as a way to solo the bunker defenses in Bloody Bay (Moonbeam let's you snipe the missile turrets without aggroing them) when getting a Shivan.
Other than that, they are mainly useful for sets or if you don't anything better to take.
Responding to the comments... and thank you very much for abstaining from the personal attacks... I was not sure which forum I was on! 
Yes, stalkers get a sniper attack 41+, as alluded to in the initial post... but one single sniper attack isn't worth a whole lot. I thought that having multiple sniper attacks might let a stalker set up a decent alpha attack chain, that could take the place of AS, before having to close to melee. For instance, open with Body Shot on the sapper, Leg Shot on another minion, then Head Shot on an Lt before closing. Obviously they would have to have passable interrupt times for this to work.
And PvP... that is the major catch. I was trying to find ways to have stalkers compete PvE without being overpowered PvP. The fact that all these shots would be interruptable would remain a major catch. I think that if they made these shots unable to cast while flying, that should make them much more balanced.
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Well, first of all, NO ONE has multiple sniper attacks. Blasters have one, Dominators have one, Defenders and Corruptors have one. Why should Stalkers have multiple sniper attacks, when they are designed to fight IN MELEE?|
Originally Posted by BugeyeJack
Yes, stalkers get a sniper attack 41+, as alluded to in the initial post... but one single sniper attack isn't worth a whole lot. I thought that having multiple sniper attacks might let a stalker set up a decent alpha attack chain, that could take the place of AS, before having to close to melee.
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Second, you can't MAKE an attack chain with sniper attacks. By definition, once you begin an attack chain, sniper attacks are useless. They are OPENING MOVES, so once you've used one, you've getten all the use out of them you're going to get.
This is not to say sniper attacks can't be used in combat, they can be, and I use them all the time, on my characters with high Def or a hold. But the interrupt time means that any time you use a sniper attack, your DPS drops dramatically. Sniper attacks actually reduce sustained damage. (Which is why very few players ever take them. Even those who do take them would not give up the slots to take more than one)
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| For instance, open with Body Shot on the sapper, Leg Shot on another minion, then Head Shot on an Lt before closing. Obviously they would have to have passable interrupt times for this to work. |
And if you raise the damage of a sniper attack to 4.33, to match its (average) cast time, that would likely be overpowered, particularly when used by a Stalker from Hide. Currently, Dominator sniper attacks are 3.56, this is probably about the greatest they could be, and Doms are using their lower ranged scale for their damage, ending up with about the same damage as Blasters anyway. (For lower recharge time)
It sounds like what you are saying is that you don't want sniper attacks, but ranged attacks the Stalker can use to apply control effects in PvE. A head shot to stun the foe, a kneecap to immobilize him, a hand to throw his aim off. You don't really need the interrupt time for that. But then, you do need more powers, and the Stalker already has a full Primary and Secondary. Unless you let him produce those effects with his regular attacks, like the Demoralize on AS.
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Well, that's just it. Having multiple sniper attacks would let stalkers have options *other than* just pure melee. After all, there is no real way to balance stalkers with scrappers with melee alone... otherwise, they become scrappers with free AS and hide, and where's the balance in that? Stalker balance has to come from somewhere else.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Well, first of all, NO ONE has multiple sniper attacks. Blasters have one, Dominators have one, Defenders and Corruptors have one. Why should Stalkers have multiple sniper attacks, when they are designed to fight IN MELEE?
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Quote:
| Second, you can't MAKE an attack chain with sniper attacks. By definition, once you begin an attack chain, sniper attacks are useless. They are OPENING MOVES, so once you've used one, you've getten all the use out of them you're going to get. |
Snipe abilities would not be designed for good DPS. If a stalker wants to DPS, he will have to close in to melee as designed. These snipe attacks would be designed to let him open a fight without immediately getting pasted by the target's friends. In addition, it would let the stalker/sniper do some damage from range if they just can't survive in melee against certain AVs. Suboptimal DPS, to be sure, but it beats being veng-bait.
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Well, to be fair, there are situations in which I can't use Assassin's Strike but I can use Moonbeam. Some enemies have auto-hit (or high accuracy) auras. In that situation, doing Moonbeam from outside of the aura radius and then running in to use high damage attacks will be better than using Dark Blast.|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
I respecced and put a single Range IO enhancement in Dark Blast, and it works far better than Moonbeam in every situation.
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Also, Moonbeam seems to be awesome for single pulls.
I would like to see the snipes get decreased activation times though. 6 seconds is just unreasonable.
A few thoughts, IMO:
I have always though of assassin's strike as my sniper attacks (and wished I could slot decreased interrupt time). Though in a team I use AS much less then solo. I do play Elec/Elec, which has gone from being the 'suck' stalker to the 'good' one in the time I have played him.
A cluster of 'sniper' like attacks would alter the AT significantly, as mentioned above the activation times would need to go down some for this to viable. It does fit with the assassin theme of the character. I still don't see it being very viable however.
I do have two characters I can think of right now that use sniper attacks and in fact thrive on them. Two are 20 or lower, one in the 40's. All are defenders with some level of END shortages. For the higher level one, Storm/Elec defender, running steam mist + hurricane and then opening with Freezing Rain, Lightning Storm, Tornado and Voltaic Sentinel leaves him pretty drained. Solo he uses Zot as a primary attack because he can push mobs into a corner, have the other three powers chewing on them and since they cant hit him due to hurricane he can Zot away (and not End crash). In teams he hangs back, and focuses more on debuffing + healing with the occasional attack, using Zot or other powers.
That is a pretty specific set of circumstances to make the sniper attack useful as the 'attack chain' my other two defenders are similar in they sit back buff/debuff and snipe.
So, I like the idea of improving the stalker, to make it easier for me to get a team, though to be honest I really have never had a problem (as of yet) compared to any of my other characters (except my fire/kin who people bug). I dont know this is the right path to go down. I do certainly agree with brining up the idea however, as we never know what will be a good fix or spark a Dev into a good idea on how to 'balance' the AT better as a whole compared to other classes.
I am thinking adjusting the +3% crit per party member stalkers have as a class feature to perhaps +4% would make for a good fix, but who knows. I do know on a big team I like getting all those crits and seeing big numbers as I AOE away. To bad LR cant crit though. 
It is up fairly often however so I guess it balances out.
To make them viable, I'd say make em more like a ranged Assassin's Strike. Shorten the cast time to something reasonable and add a Hide damage bonus.
Potentially OP? Of course, but it's an Epic/Patron pool anyway, give em something they'll actually use. It doesn't have to be full AS damage, just a decent amount.
Also, I never use my AR Blaster's snipe anymore (it's outclassed and boring) but my Kin/Rad Defender uses his a fair bit, mostly for the awesome sound effect. Pew pew pew pew!