City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Robots/Traps needs a bit of help

Adeon Hawkwood

By Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-19 10:11 in Masterminds

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
You mentioned your Procs but you either failed to look or decided not to mention that my Force Feedback +recharge proc has a chance to go off every time a mobs hits my Bonfire. And when it goes off my Proc that I spent 5k on and single slotted in a silly power like Bonfire just beat all that recharge you spent BILLIONS to obtain..
Have you verified this in game? My understanding is that in a pseudo-pet power like bonfire it's have a change to proc once on you when you cast the power but any subsequent procs will be applied to the pseudo-pet and not you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
You mentioned your Procs but you either failed to look or decided not to mention that my Force Feedback +recharge proc has a chance to go off every time a mobs hits my Bonfire. And when it goes off my Proc that I spent 5k on and single slotted in a silly power like Bonfire just beat all that recharge you spent BILLIONS to obtain..

And since I run on a setting of 8 I have many mobs hitting my Bonfire at any given time. End result my 10% chance proc goes off A LOT.
That's not at all how the FF proc works with Bonfire...

Bonfire is a very underrated skill on a ranged MM set, but it's not feeding your recharge like this.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Arbegla I clearly understand what your trying to get across. I also happen to read the the thread you sent me in a PM, before your PM.

Simply in response to your numbers.

You spent Billions to be able to have a regeneration rate of 3 more points then me without Triage Beacon and 5 more with Triage Beacon.

You spent Billions to be able to have a Recharge Rate that just about allows you to have Acid Mortar up every 27 seconds compared to my 33 seconds.

You mentioned your Procs but you either failed to look or decided not to mention that my Force Feedback +recharge proc has a chance to go off every time a mobs hits my Bonfire. And when it goes off my Proc that I spent 5k on and single slotted in a silly power like Bonfire just beat all that recharge you spent BILLIONS to obtain..

And since I run on a setting of 8 I have many mobs hitting my Bonfire at any given time. End result my 10% chance proc goes off A LOT.

Finally Arbegla you have no attacks.. So there is nothing you can do without your pets solo in a mission. As I mentioned you are completely dependent on your pets for damage.

One simple TF comes to mind Apex TF. I'm sure you read the thread or might have done the TF so no need to explain the situation.

I have all my debuffs (which i've already stated have more debuff value then yours) I have caltrops, with i can quad stack, and i have my rifle burst, (which with my purple set in it, hits pretty hard, and i can spam it all day long) I also have the mu mastery single target hold, and the mu mastery AoE immobilize.

I can do plenty without my pets, but i figure the point of a mastermind is to USE your pets, and if i wanted to play without them, i would just roll up a corruptor, as the endurance values on /traps are much lower on a corruptor.

The only thing you build has above mine is the ability to take 10% more -defense. While mine has more resistance, more regeneration (2HP/second base is Massive, and i have enough recharge to perma it, while you don't, not without using bonfire, which as others have stated, Won't do exactly what you want it to do. Its more crowd control and area denial then actually benefiting you)

The difference between 27 seconds, and 33 seconds is the difference of 2, or 3 acid mortars. And that is without factoring in the alpha slot. The debuff value of 2 acid mortars vs 3 acid mortars is MASSIVE, especially when you consider the -res proc adding basically a whole acid mortar worth of -resistance for free.

Also my bots pretty closely soft-capped (all but the protector bots exceed the softcap of 45% defense to everything but psi, and the protector are covered by the -tohit debuff values they, and i have, very similar to the way i'm covered by them)

I've been pretty successful on my apex runs, and i even got master of apex on my second attempt. And i didn't use the whole 'lets have BM run around like a chicken with her head cut off' tactics most people use. I immobilized her (using web nade, and my AoE immobilize) then played rotate the columns of doom, and was able to use seeker drones, acid mortar, and poison trap all very effectively. Heck, i even got 3 mortars to debuff her while she was raining (literal) hell down on us.

In all of my apex attempts i was the only form of debuff, and i was the sheer reason we won.

Yes, i spent billions, and yes most of it was for a few percents worth of increase, but overall, my build greatly out performs yours.

 

Posted

What did you tell me about relying on procs? oh yeah

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy
...You are relying on a Kluge and a prayer...hoping your proc goes off...
Yet you rely on your +rech proc in bonfire to go off, and doesn't bonfire scatter mobs around and make then hard to manage, thus effectively limiting your AoE potential due to scattered mobs?

And, aside from fireball, the only 'attack' you have it trip mine, the rest are side effects of debuff powers, or caltrops, which is a massive DoT attack.

While that does do a fair amount of damage, and i can see using bonfire to give you coverage while you setting up a field of doom, the time required pretty much negates its practical uses, even with your softcap, as your going to get hit.
Without factoring in your +BU proc, as its not very reliable, and may or may not actually benefit trip mine and caltrops here are your damaging abilities outside of your pets:

Your fireball does 72.91 damage recharging in 15.06seconds
Your trip mine does 417.82 damage recharging in 6.613seconds, with a 4 sec interruptable cast time
Your caltrops do 204.57 damage(recharging in 18.83secs, so able to triple stack, so 613.71 damage)
Your Provoke does 14.35 damage recharging in 3.493secs
Your seeker drones do 30.86 damage recharging in 36.76secs
Your acid mortar does 24.72 damage 33.45secs

And as we've already established that you can only double stack acid mortar 80 - 25% of the time, your total -res is about 20 - 40%.

While my attacks (disregarding my pets) do:

Pulse Rifle Burst does 140.26 damage recharging in 2.303secs
Caltrops do 282.81 damage (recharging in 12.95secs thus able to quad stack, so 1,131.24 damage)
Poison trap does 35.34 damage recharging in 25.9secs
Acid mortar does 11.14 damage recharging in 27.17secs
Provoke does 11.35 damage recharging in 3.019secs
Electrifiing fenses does 29.18 damage in 5.757secs
Electric Shackles does 38.30 damage in 10.26secs
Seeker Drones does 33.16 damage in 26.69secs

And, i'm able to triple stack my acid mortar so about -60% to -80% resistance (depending on the -res proc going off)

So, disregarding trip mines, which would take you roughly 10 seconds per mine to set up, I'm fairly certain even without pets, i would out damage you, and thats what the game is all about right? doing the most damage the quickest?

 

Posted

Arbegla

I simply only brought up the Proc issue because twice you found it necessary to remind readers about how what happens when your procs go off.

Myself on the other never mentioned anything about procs because as I already stated they are luck shining its grace on you.. That is all.

But I felt after your 2nd posting mentioning your procs. I figured I would show you how a simple proc which has a chance to go off many times completely exceeds any recharge rate you have. Whereas compared to some of your procs that only have a chance of going off on power activation.

Is your build expensive.. Yes.. But its not efficient, could be done better for probably cheaper.

As I mentioned I know I can swap things around, increase my resistances. But I'm realistic, I know I'm going to die sometime. Things do go wrong no matter how hard you try. I only have so many slots. So picking a aoe power that knocks everyone back but AVs and GMs seemed very useful, especially with the proc ( yes I said it ) I placed in it. I just need it to go off once and honestly with a bunch of mobs hitting it repeatedly it does.

I have fought and defeated AV's with my build. So for the 180 million how much more does it need to do really.

BTW fireball is not for damage it's for aggro. Nothing more. Between Provoke and Fireball Its my attempt to gain all the AOE aggro I can get.. This way whatever Provoke misses I am hoping Fireball picks it up.

The ress is for what I mentioned above.. It saves me a run back. I'm Tier 2 Alpha for damage and have Tier 2 Alpha for recharge depending on what I am doing at the time.

nonetheless the price tag for that build does not match the performance.

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

The problem lies in that fact that your proc doesn't work the way you think it does.

Bonfire summons a psuedo pet, which does the Aoe knockback. Pets are unaffected by recharge, and psuedo pets even more. So basically the only time your proc has a 10% chance to go off, is when you cast the power.

While my procs on the other hand (mainly the -res) has a 20% chance every attack to go off. each acid mortar shoots 10 mortars, within its 1 minute life span, so every fifth attack triggers the proc. And as the proc doesn't stack with itself, the duration is just refreshed, so its basically perma.

The -tohit proc in seeker drones doesn't work, and if you notice, i didn't count it anywhere in my math, it was all straight debuff values. You slotted your seeker drones for stun duration, while i slotted mine for tohit debuff.

You do realize that you (the mastermind) has a lower threat mod then your pets, and the same threat mod as any squishy AT. So using fireball for aggro isn't going to help your cause unless you pets are not attacking (merely look up how threat is calculated and it will explain it for you)

Name a proc i've mentioned that only has a chance to go off on power activation? My damage proc in my rifle burst? well, yes, but the recharge is under 4 seconds, so thats pretty much as much as possible, and the chance is 33%, i've already gone over the acid mortar proc, and hold proc in my electric fenses is also 33%, and the recharge on that is under 5 seconds. My Pancea proc and performance shift procs have a chance to go off every 10 seconds, while i'm idle, doing nothing.

I'd like to see your pylon DPS values, heck lets even compare them, as the last time i ran mine i managed 344DPS.

I have no +rech procs, so all my recharge is based on actual global bonuses, or up time of hasten, so all my debuffs, while also hitting for more values then yours, are up for often as well, i don't have to resummon a AoE knockback power for a chance of higher recharge, i just have higher recharge naturally.

So again, while i did spend billions for billions sake, the increased durability and performance far out weighs that your build can do.

And i'd like to see a video of you soloing 0/8 without your pets. Heck, lets goto test, and each run a mission together, each not using our pets, and each taking on the same size groups. See who performs better, side by side.