Returning to the fold
So I am returning to CoH not having played since 6/2009 I think, I13 or so. I see a lot of changes, and a lot of bad things are gone. Also a lot of new choices. I will be keeping my Stone/Ice Tanker, but a lot of the rest I may redo.
What I would like is an opinion on the solo-viable scrapper builds. I don't want to solo everywhere or everything, but I don't want to be PUG-dependent either. I used to play Spine/Regen in I2-I4 and I could solo really well. I also could solo well with Spine/WP in I13, though not quite as well as I would like, and DB/WP was quite awesome as well with the right combos. So what is the build du jour for the solo-oriented scrapper today? Thank you in advance for your assistance! La Noche Blanca |
They all work but the big question is what is your play style what levels do you want to reach and do you want to put in the time to farm the cash or do you want an out of the box set that takes cheaper IO investment.
Do you have a concept that you like ?
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Kat/wp is what id consider the "everyday scrapper". It doesn't give up much as you lvl up and can be build into a monster if you want.
id say that on just SO's its as good as some of the "weaker" IO'd builds
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Everything is good these days.
But the consensus answer if you know nothing about what someone wants is usually Katana/Willpower - easy to build, easy to play, easy to level, and gives up nothing in top end power.
But we might as well just ask what you want, which is what Hejtmane seems to be getting after. AoE vs. single-target damage, early bloomer vs. late bloomer, toggle and go vs. active involvement in the character's survival, what is your tolerance for endurance issues, do you want to do stupid scrapper tricks - pylon soloing, AV soloing, +4x8, or do you want to optimize around the more normally-experienced parts of the game, and so on and so forth. There are a TON of good combinations, just with different flavors.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Good questions.
I have always had a fondness for AoE and I have a lvl 50 Spines. I also spent a lot of time with variations of DM/DA and even a Spines/DA "dust bunny", but it was also an END nightmare before the mid 30's. I think I want to move towards a more traditional AV-hunter though and let the blasters do the minion mulching now.
I'd like to be able to solo mishes and AVs, and I definitely like to go +level mobs. I like my heroes to feel like SUPER heroes, not "sorta great" heroes, you know what I mean?
For example, my Stone/Ice tank has always been able to tank +2-4 mobs in great numbers. I mean, he needs someone else to do the damage, but I can taunt/control/aggro manage like a beast. I wouldn't really want to have a scranker. I'm old school, I want to herd!
I want to go toe-to-toe with the big'uns.
- I'd prefer it not cost huge amounts, since I'm a casual player.
- I don't mind END management. Been playing on and off since I2. I can handle END management.
- Toggles are fine, but I play an Ill/Rad troller, so I don't mind micro-managing in the action.
Primaries:
I will say, I don't like Katana or Broadsword, but I would try Katana over Dual Blades at this point. I am intrigued by KM, Fiery, and EM if only because suddenly its like having a Blapper that doesn't die in one hit. However, I have no idea how they compare to DM or Katana or DB (I know how they compare to Spines: they don't. Spines remains unique.) Comments on that comparison would be really helpful.
Secondaries:
I don't mind Regen, but I played it I2-4 and I just can't deal with what they did to it. I prefer WP to it. DA is fun in a lot of ways, but its also pretty weak comparatively, esp for the END cost. If I want to eat that much END, I'd traditionally prefer the reliability of Inv, even though it has fewer nifty tricks at high levels. Unless something has changed with DA. I love love love the concept, just not the END cost. I again have no idea about SD, EA or FA. FA looks quite weak to me.
So I would tend towards WP, DA or Inv unless I learned something really interesting about the new secondaries. Again, some comparison of these with the new one would be great.
I don't like and never did like Claws, MA or SR and I don't see me using them any time soon. They're of no interest to me.
Thanks all!
Cheers,
La Noche Blanca
OK, to me, Dual Blades is fairly close to Claws. So if you don't like Claws, I'd avoid Dual Blades too. Katana and Broad Sword are out, which is fine since every primary is good. Electric is best at AoE, so let's set that aside.
So for primaries - Dark Melee, Martial Arts, Kinetic Melee, Fiery Melee.
For the secondaries, my opinion is that Shield Defense plays similar to Super Reflexes, except that it comes with a big damage boost and a big AoE. Plus some resistance, plus some hit points. So not really all that similar other than being defense-based at the core. It's very popular, I think mostly because the damage boost is pretty big, and the AoE is very nice. I agree that Fiery Aura is fairly weak defensively, and Electric Armor is as well.
So for secondaries - Willpower, Dark Armor, Invulnerability and Shield Defense.
From those lists, I'd say your absolutely most survivable top end is Dark Melee/Invulnerability. But frankly, it's MORE survivable than you need for even AV soloing with no temps no insps. You might want some more damage. Dark Armor is good IO'd to the gills, but I think it's best combined with more defense, and since you don't like the sword sets, I'd personally suggest passing on Dark Armor for now. Willpower is good with everything. Invulnerability, yeah, if I was going Invulnerability I'd combine it with Dark Melee for the heal, which is what Invulnerability wants. Shield Defense also likes a heal, so Dark Melee/Shield Defense is probably less survivable than DM/Invuln, but still plenty survivable, and is probably the flavor of the year build for AV soloing no temps no insps. In its element, under ideal circumstances, it puts out the highest single-target DPS of any Scrapper combo (though we're still waiting on Kinetic Melee results). A drawback of Dark Melee is just how single-target it is, though. If you're willing to give up a little more survivability still, Fiery Melee/Shield Defense is an awesome damage machine in all ways (DPS, burst, AoE) while still being quite survivable, and I19 will make it easier to add Aid Self if you really want that last push to uber survivability. Kinetic Melee should also be very good with Shield Defense, but again, still waiting on results, and I haven't studied it on paper.
So, I guess my personal recommendations are, and roughly on a scale from most survivable to most damage output:
Dark Melee/InvulnerabilityAnd you may also want to consider:
Dark Melee/Shield Defense
Fiery Melee/Shield Defense
Any of the primaries mentioned/Willpower
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
EM is AoE? Really? Didnt know that [EDIT: Would have helped if I'd noticed that 4 of its powers are AoE :/] How does it compare to Spines? I guess with /SD it really gets a power boost that Spines has a hard time competing with now. Spines I guess would depend on DA with Death Shroud/Spine Burst/Throw Spines/Ripper/Quills. I'm guessing neither one is great for AV soloing.
I suspect that against mobs, /SD is better than /INV if you have some AoE stuff, but less useful against an AV, but isn't /Inv also weaker against a single target?
Thanks, that's great info btw. Always loved DM because it looks cool, it has neat effect stuff and best of all Neg NRG is one of the least defended against, so even at lower raw numbers, it is resisted less.
Looks like the armor cost/sec on DA has dropped considerably, only .208/s unmodified compared to .26/s for Fiery, Elec, SD, etc. I mean, yeah it needs to be spec'd hard, but it looks better than ever!
Ok, well, that's great stuff to think about. Thanks again!
La Noche Blanca
EM is AoE? Really? Didnt know that [EDIT: Would have helped if I'd noticed that 4 of its powers are AoE :/] How does it compare to Spines? I guess with /SD it really gets a power boost that Spines has a hard time competing with now. Spines I guess would depend on DA with Death Shroud/Spine Burst/Throw Spines/Ripper/Quills. I'm guessing neither one is great for AV soloing.
I suspect that against mobs, /SD is better than /INV if you have some AoE stuff, but less useful against an AV, but isn't /Inv also weaker against a single target? Thanks, that's great info btw. Always loved DM because it looks cool, it has neat effect stuff and best of all Neg NRG is one of the least defended against, so even at lower raw numbers, it is resisted less. Looks like the armor cost/sec on DA has dropped considerably, only .208/s unmodified compared to .26/s for Fiery, Elec, SD, etc. I mean, yeah it needs to be spec'd hard, but it looks better than ever! Ok, well, that's great stuff to think about. Thanks again! La Noche Blanca |
Good luck and enjoy
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
I personally say that claws is incredibly similar to spines, just looking at what the powers do, when they are available and all.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
Good questions.
I have always had a fondness for AoE and I have a lvl 50 Spines. I also spent a lot of time with variations of DM/DA and even a Spines/DA "dust bunny", but it was also an END nightmare before the mid 30's. I think I want to move towards a more traditional AV-hunter though and let the blasters do the minion mulching now. I'd like to be able to solo mishes and AVs, and I definitely like to go +level mobs. I like my heroes to feel like SUPER heroes, not "sorta great" heroes, you know what I mean? For example, my Stone/Ice tank has always been able to tank +2-4 mobs in great numbers. I mean, he needs someone else to do the damage, but I can taunt/control/aggro manage like a beast. I wouldn't really want to have a scranker. I'm old school, I want to herd! I want to go toe-to-toe with the big'uns. - I'd prefer it not cost huge amounts, since I'm a casual player. - I don't mind END management. Been playing on and off since I2. I can handle END management. - Toggles are fine, but I play an Ill/Rad troller, so I don't mind micro-managing in the action. Primaries: I will say, I don't like Katana or Broadsword, but I would try Katana over Dual Blades at this point. I am intrigued by KM, Fiery, and EM if only because suddenly its like having a Blapper that doesn't die in one hit. However, I have no idea how they compare to DM or Katana or DB (I know how they compare to Spines: they don't. Spines remains unique.) Comments on that comparison would be really helpful. Secondaries: I don't mind Regen, but I played it I2-4 and I just can't deal with what they did to it. I prefer WP to it. DA is fun in a lot of ways, but its also pretty weak comparatively, esp for the END cost. If I want to eat that much END, I'd traditionally prefer the reliability of Inv, even though it has fewer nifty tricks at high levels. Unless something has changed with DA. I love love love the concept, just not the END cost. I again have no idea about SD, EA or FA. FA looks quite weak to me. So I would tend towards WP, DA or Inv unless I learned something really interesting about the new secondaries. Again, some comparison of these with the new one would be great. I don't like and never did like Claws, MA or SR and I don't see me using them any time soon. They're of no interest to me. Thanks all! Cheers, La Noche Blanca |
With the advent of Physical Perfection in the Body Mastery APP (don't know if you noticed, but all the APPs have 5 powers now instead of the 4 they used to), a lot of Dark Armor's end problems have gone away. And with the introduction of the Theft of Essence Chance for +End proc, DA's biggest end hog (Dark Regeneration) can actually GAIN you endurance instead of costing a crap ton. That's because the proc checks to give you 10 endurance back when you use the power, and it checks for every target the power hits.
With Divine Avalanche, you can softcap melee defense pretty easily, and building for other defenses isn't too difficult (though it can get expensive). Defense on top of Dark Armor's already good resists and monster heal is just an awesome combination.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I'm a little worried about Sword/Dark once we hit incarnate content. Sure, I should be able to soft cap again, get endurance sustainable again, and raise my on-paper survivability even further. But I hear rumor that there will be more to hit and more defense debuffs, which could get nasty for our approach to Sword/Dark. It might be hard to keep up. Mind you, it'll still be really, really good. It just won't be as good as I got used to before the IO nerfs, and perhaps not as good as I can do with some of my other toons. But it still remains to be seen what they do with the incarnate content, I suppose. And for that matter, what most of the incarnate slots will do. It's really hard to predict what's going to be good.
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Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Have not decided what to go with yet, but I am looking at:
DM/SD or EM/DA.
I know, I said no to AoE this time around, but I likes AoE. Was using my 50 Spines/Fiery last night and while he is a bit squishy and nowhere near spec'd up enough (I don't even know what I need on IOs anymore.)
If I understand /SD and /DA as they now work, would the following comments be valid to their differences:
DA: Resistance, Damage Mitigation/Control (Cloak and Oppressive), Self-Heal, PBAoE Aura
SD: Defense, Damage Enhancement, slow recharding Active AoE
I'm thinking if you can manage your END use, EM/DA is really powerful potentially as an AoE. Would it hold up against EM/SD which seems more popular ATM?
Some questions on powerset powers:
What are the core SD powers? I'm guessing:
Defelction
Battle Agility
True Grit
Active Defense
Against All Odds
Shield Charge
One with the Shield
For DM:
What is the conventional wisdom on Shadow Maul at this time? The animation is a disaster
Is Siphon Life still too little healf and too little damage for too much END/too slow RECH? Looks like with 4 Touch of Nictus and 2 Hecatomb, you can get END cost down to 8.681, RECH to 5s (!), ACC to 139%, heal to a little over 15% and Damage to 180NE. Now it still has that terrible 2s cast time, but still it seems respectable.
Ah, also, what are the IO sets du jour for DA, EM, DM and SD? Are they listed somewhere? I'll post a prospective build soon.
Again, much appreciated.
This is what I am thinking... Obviously with I19 I can skip three of those and add in some other powers. I mean, I'll get SJ a lot sooner this way.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Darkest Deflection: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Deflection -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(7), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SW-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 2: Smite -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(15), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(17), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hectmb-Dam%(19)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(21), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(21), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), RedFtn-Def(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(43)
Level 6: True Grit -- TtmC'tng-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam(27), GA-ResDam(29), Numna-Heal(43), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(45)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(A), Nictus-Acc/Heal(9), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Nictus-Heal(11), Numna-Heal/Rchg(11), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A), Numna-Heal(40), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(42)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod(23), P'Shift-End%(29), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Dark Consumption -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(25), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(25), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(46)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(31), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 28: Tough -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(33), GA-End/Res(33)
Level 30: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34), SW-Def/EndRdx(34)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), GS-Dam/Rech(37)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(37), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(39)
Level 38: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A), Jump-I(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(45), EndMod-I(45), EndMod-I(48)
Level 47: Energy Torrent -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(50), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Ragnrk-Knock%(50)
Level 49: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run
Have not decided what to go with yet, but I am looking at:
DM/SD or EM/DA. I know, I said no to AoE this time around, but I likes AoE. Was using my 50 Spines/Fiery last night and while he is a bit squishy and nowhere near spec'd up enough (I don't even know what I need on IOs anymore.) If I understand /SD and /DA as they now work, would the following comments be valid to their differences: DA: Resistance, Damage Mitigation/Control (Cloak and Oppressive), Self-Heal, PBAoE Aura SD: Defense, Damage Enhancement, slow recharding Active AoE I'm thinking if you can manage your END use, EM/DA is really powerful potentially as an AoE. Would it hold up against EM/SD which seems more popular ATM? Some questions on powerset powers: What are the core SD powers? I'm guessing: Defelction Battle Agility True Grit Active Defense Against All Odds Shield Charge One with the Shield For DM: What is the conventional wisdom on Shadow Maul at this time? The animation is a disaster Is Siphon Life still too little healf and too little damage for too much END/too slow RECH? Looks like with 4 Touch of Nictus and 2 Hecatomb, you can get END cost down to 8.681, RECH to 5s (!), ACC to 139%, heal to a little over 15% and Damage to 180NE. Now it still has that terrible 2s cast time, but still it seems respectable. Ah, also, what are the IO sets du jour for DA, EM, DM and SD? Are they listed somewhere? I'll post a prospective build soon. Again, much appreciated. |
http://www.cohplanner.com/
You goal on shield is to reach 45% to melee, aoe and ranged defense so you want to build for defense and recharge and endurance to a degree.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
I've been playing around a bit lately with a Spine/Electric and it seems to be pretty dang good so far... I just hit 33 with him and I'm still on SO's. I rolled him up after watching several buddies with Spine/Elec scrappers... it's an AOE monster but a bit squishy. Endurance isn't THAT big an issue with him either; he's playable with all (very) yellow SO's.
I've two high level Shield scrappers, one Broadsword/Shield at 50 (soft capped to all positions) and one Fire/Shield at 47 that's lacking in Ranged defense at the moment due to an incomplete build... I think I'm soft capped to melee and almost to AOE but still only in the high 30's for ranged. Of the two the BS/SD is better AOE and defensively but the Fire/SD seems to hit a bit harder in single target. Both are quite capable, although both are somewhat late bloomers due to the nature of defense sets.
I also have a Spine/Regen and Broadsword/Regen at 50; both are older characters and neither has had extensive IO work... the Spine/Regen is even a HO build. Still, both are competitive in today's game although not as dominant as they were prior to the Regen nerfs of yesteryear. Good damage output but very unforgiving of a slow finger on the heal buttons in the high levels.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
So I am returning to CoH not having played since 6/2009 I think, I13 or so. I see a lot of changes, and a lot of bad things are gone. Also a lot of new choices. I will be keeping my Stone/Ice Tanker, but a lot of the rest I may redo.
What I would like is an opinion on the solo-viable scrapper builds. I don't want to solo everywhere or everything, but I don't want to be PUG-dependent either. I used to play Spine/Regen in I2-I4 and I could solo really well. I also could solo well with Spine/WP in I13, though not quite as well as I would like, and DB/WP was quite awesome as well with the right combos.
So what is the build du jour for the solo-oriented scrapper today?
Thank you in advance for your assistance!
La Noche Blanca