Ice APP and Ice Armor vs Psionic and Indomitable Will
By
Gilia,
Posted on: 2010-10-21 08:39 in Controllers
Stick with Ice and carry a column of Break Frees for when you get mezzed during that second or two when aggro's on you because your Phantom Army's down. Sure, your debuffs go down for a few seconds, but that's rarely a big deal.
That's indeed what I've been doing, and it's rarely a problem. I've had 1 death attributed to getting held in a Malta bot burn patch. Usually, I have breakfrees available. Knockback can be annoying, but Acrobatics will fix that (and Indomitable Will doesn't help with KB anyway). So it's your contention that I'm better off with the smash/lethal defense? Or is more that you favor the Ice attacks over the Psionic's?
You have outlined good reasons for both. You didn't mention Frost Breath for a faster-recharging AoE attack.
I find that I spend a fair amount of time going up against Robots in the upper-level content. Being limited to only Psi damage will mean that you spend a lot of time taking them down. Plus, I find that I rarely get mezzed, but that may be in part due to my playstyle. If you are spending a lot of time getting mezzed, then going with the Psi APP makes sense. But if you are more solo focused and need that damage against Robots and other Psi-resistant foes, then stick with Ice . . . but consider taking Frost Breath. It recharges much faster than Ice Storm, and is up-front damage. As I discussed in my Ill/Rad guide, the DoT of Ice Storm may not be the best for you.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Another thing to consider is that I19 also introduces Incarnate powers. You might want to put off making any major decisions until you see the details of the Alpha slot.
Quote:
Oh my, yes. Not just Robots though. Almost every Carnie has defense AND resistance to Psionic. It's very common in Arachnos, particularly bosses. Fake Nemesis resist psi pretty well. Drones, and then almost all Lts+ from Rikti (besides Headman Gunners I think) have resist or defense against psi. I know people like to cast a vote against Smashing/Letal damage sets because of how commonly its resisted/defended, but late game psi resist/defense may be more common, depending on what you tend to fight of course. "Normal humans" (PPD, KoA, AA) tend to not to have a particular psi defense/resist, but they also don't usually have S/L defense/resist. A notable exception is Malta, who tend to be weak to psi but strong against s/l. Their titans resist everything though.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
You have outlined good reasons for both. You didn't mention Frost Breath for a faster-recharging AoE attack.
I find that I spend a fair amount of time going up against Robots in the upper-level content. Being limited to only Psi damage will mean that you spend a lot of time taking them down. Plus, I find that I rarely get mezzed, but that may be in part due to my playstyle. If you are spending a lot of time getting mezzed, then going with the Psi APP makes sense. But if you are more solo focused and need that damage against Robots and other Psi-resistant foes, then stick with Ice . . . but consider taking Frost Breath. It recharges much faster than Ice Storm, and is up-front damage. As I discussed in my Ill/Rad guide, the DoT of Ice Storm may not be the best for you. |
I would definitely consider a different damage type for your epic, since you lean heavily on Psi damage from your primary.
Psi is a weakness for CoT Spirits, and as a group they don't heavily resist anything (demons resist fire, the ones with ice shields have defense to cold, rock defense to s/l, it varies, etc)
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Indeed, completely forgot about Frost Breath for some reason. And yes, you're all correct in saying that late-game content seems to have a lot of psi resistance present. I'll keep Acrobatics in my build for the knockback protection and hold resist, and use break-frees for anything else that actually gets through.
The smash/lethal def might indeed be more useful over time, to get away from AoE splash damage, or for when I draw a bit of attention, etc.
That way, I spread my defenses (and offense) a bit better, i.e. some status protection and resist, and better smash/lethal def, and a different damage type, as opposed to same damage type and full-on status protection, with 17% less S/L def.
Feels like I went full circle, since this was the logic behind Ice in the first place. But it's nice to get some outside opinions.
I did the last of the vet respecs this week-end, for an i19 compliant build (I could've waited, but got impatient). I took out the fitness pool, for one thing, and added SJ, Acrobatics and Assault. Took out the Fighting pool (not sure where I was going with that, bad choice). I also swapped Ice Storm for Frost breath (much better choice).
With Combat Jumping, Hover, Ice Armor, Group Invis and Superior Invis, I have about 30% smash/lethat defense (that's after the defense reduction of SI and GI when attacking/clicking glowies). With some changes in my slotting of AM, I still have amazing recovery. Getting Stamina in i19 will just be icing on the cake, but the toon can easily function without it.
To get back to the subject of the thread, Acrobatics and Combat Jumping, along with a few breakfrees are more than sufficient to deal with the occasionnal hold/immob that comes my way. Having the s/l defense is indeed handy for those times when I start getting hit (I have my settings at +0 x4, and once in a while, PA doesn't get all the aggro, and I get some unwanted attention from baddies). Finally, Frost Breath is simply a better choice over IS. Much better recharge at about 7 seconds, and 2 big ticks of damage. Decent range too with the Detonation IO set (can't use the recharge in Positron's unfortunately).
Thank you for the advice.
Quote:
I assume you realize that when I-19 hits, you will need to Respec again to get the inherent Fitness? I presume you know that, since you can't slot Fitness now unless you take it.|
Originally Posted by Happy_Cat
I did the last of the vet respecs this week-end, for an i19 compliant build (I could've waited, but got impatient). I took out the fitness pool, for one thing, and added SJ, Acrobatics and Assault. Took out the Fighting pool (not sure where I was going with that, bad choice). I also swapped Ice Storm for Frost breath (much better choice).
With Combat Jumping, Hover, Ice Armor, Group Invis and Superior Invis, I have about 30% smash/lethat defense (that's after the defense reduction of SI and GI when attacking/clicking glowies). With some changes in my slotting of AM, I still have amazing recovery. Getting Stamina in i19 will just be icing on the cake, but the toon can easily function without it. To get back to the subject of the thread, Acrobatics and Combat Jumping, along with a few breakfrees are more than sufficient to deal with the occasionnal hold/immob that comes my way. Having the s/l defense is indeed handy for those times when I start getting hit (I have my settings at +0 x4, and once in a while, PA doesn't get all the aggro, and I get some unwanted attention from baddies). Finally, Frost Breath is simply a better choice over IS. Much better recharge at about 7 seconds, and 2 big ticks of damage. Decent range too with the Detonation IO set (can't use the recharge in Positron's unfortunately). Thank you for the advice. |
If one of your 6.25% recharge bonuses is from Glympse of the Abyss in Spectral Terror, you can replace that with the 5% Recharge from a 5 Unspeakable Terrors and therefore fit in a Posi-Blast into Frost Breath with a net gain of 5% more Recharge.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
My original plan was to respec as per my planned build, then hold off on training at lv 50 (until i19 hits) to get to place 2 slots in Stamina and one in Health. Then I started thinking, and playing around in mids, and decided to use those 3 slots in Frost Breath and EM Pulse. So I hit 50 and did just that. I figured, worse comes to worse, I can shelf the toon until i19, and respec again. No big deal. I've been playing now with this new build, and it's just fine without stamina. A bit of +recovery from some sets and AM cater to my recovery needs. So one IO in Stamina, and the numina regen/recovery in health will be fine.
Right now, I'm at 216.5% recharge. If/when I can get the 4 Purple sets I want, I'll be at 237.5%. If that happens, the 5% set in Spectral Terror will be swapped for the 6.25%. As it stands now, I'm maxed out on 6.25, 5, and LoTG. I have 3 x 7.5% (in Blind, EM Pulse, and Flash), but cannot use/fit any more of those basilisk gaze.
I'm at work, so I can only post a by-hand build (keep in mind, doing this from memory).
SW: 6 slots => 5 decimation, 1 damage IO
Blind: 6 slots => 4 basilisk, 2 Acc\Damage IO's from Thunderstrike and Devastation (I think)
Confuse: 5 slots => 5 Malaise's Illusion
Flash: 6 slots => 4 Basilist, 2 Acc\Recharge IO's from Ghost Widow and Essence of
SI: 1 slot => LoTG
GI: 1 slot => LoTG
PA: 6 slots => 4 Call to Arms, 2 Expedient
Spectral T.: 5 slots => 5 unspeakable terror
Phantasm: 5 slots => I forget here... but I do get a 6.25% bonus that is not counted right now, but will be once I replace a 6.25 with a purple. Also, 95% acc and Damage for phanty.
Radiant Aura: 6 slots => 5 Doctored W. 1 + recovery from Miracle
Rad Infect: 4 slots => 4 DW's Despair
AM: 6 slots => 6 efficacy adaptor
Enervating F.: 2 slots => 2 End. Red. IO's
Lingering R.: 2 slots => 2 Acc. IO's
EM Pulse: 6 slots => 4 Basilist, 2 Acc\Recharge IO's from Ghost Widow and Essence of
Ice blast: 5 slots => 5 decimation
Ice armor: 6 slots => 1 LoTG, 5 Red Fortune
Frost Breath: 6 slots => 6 Detonation
Combat J.: 1 slot => LoTG
SJ: 1 slot => Jump IO
Accro: 1 slot => End. Red. IO
Hover: 1 slot => LoTG
Assault: 1 slot => End. Red. IO.
Hasten: 2 slots => 2 Rec. Red. IO's.
My Ill/Rad is now lv 48, and I have chosen the Ice APP for the Ice Blast, Ice Armor and Ice Storm powers. Like most people, I'll be respec'ing once i19 arrives, and I started to question if the Ice APP was the best choice.
My non-purple build for i19 has 215% recharge, and Indomitable will would be near-perma.
I also included Acrobatics for the knockback protection. With both of these, I have very good protection against status effects (save repel, taunt and placate I believe). My purple build has 236.5% recharge, with a downtime of 10 seconds for Indomitable Will.
I barely use Ice Armor as it is, so the question is: do I stick with Ice to get roughly 34% Smash/Lethal DEF, or do I go with Psionics to get near perma status protection.
Another issue is having all psionic damage (with Spectral Wound, Blind, Mental Blast and Psionic Tornado), versus having 2 attacks of a different type (Ice Blast and Ice Storm).
Obviously, my attacks cycle very fast at roughly 1.5 sec. for SW, and 2 sec. for Blind and 2 sec for Ice Blast. So I'm not sure that a non-psionic attack or 2 makes that much of a difference at this point. Also, Psionic Tornado recharges in 4 sec. for 127 (non-contained damage) versus roughly 30 sec. for Ice Storm at 400 something damage. Seems Psionic Tornado would help put out more damage over time than Ice Storm.
Now, I don't think that going either way would be a bad choice, but I'm curious to see what is the general consensus on status protection versus smash/lethal that can be capped with a small purple (if I did my math ok). Incidentally, I have 47% DEF to Psionics with Indomitable Will...
Psionic is my personnal preference, if only for thematic reasons. Also, the Fire and Primal APP's are out, because I can't slot an additional LoTG anywhere (I could always elect to pick Maneuvers over Assault in my build, but I'd rather not). Stone is out because of the longish animation for Hurl Boulder.
Any thoughts are welcome!