Where's my kryptonite?


Anti_Proton

 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Now I'm not sure if you're discussing the issue out of concern for balance or some such or plainly arguing out of spite because some pissant l33T player ruffled your feathers.

On one hand, you complain about tedious character generation systems, such as a tenuous stat slider that gives the illusion of complexity when, in fact, sliders like that are probably way simpler than the enhancement system we have. Do you realize you've probably memorized how much (or ballpark) schedule A, B, C and D values and the ED cap line for enhancements of those values? Or the values of DO, TO and SO enhancements? That isn't more complex than simply adjusting a slider for the values so you at least know where you stand rather than guess/memorization work?

Then on the other hand, you argue how cheap the enemies are and that they aren't real challenge but cheap challenge. Well, the NPCs have no choice right now. They *have* to be cheap otherwise we'd mop the floor with them every time. It's no more cheap than invincible bosses that only have 1 point of their body during a particular duration of time that's vulnurable in nearly every game on the market. Quick-time events? Cheap substitute to make you feel like skill was required. It's all the same.

You're basically self-limiting your perception of any possibilities that might expand a game's ability to simulate combat while at the same time reprimanding the games for its limits. Dynamic does not equal cheap unless you can't be arsed with being creative enough to think outside the box.
I haven't remembered almost anything, actually. I try to, but I keep forgetting what anything but Schedule A is. What I HAVE remembered is that I don't want to put more than three enhancements of the same type, and in most cases the third enhancement doesn't really add enough to bother with it. That's all I know. That's all I NEED to know. I don't have to worry about what percentages each enhancement gives me, because it doesn't matter. If it's an unimportant aspect, I won't slot for it. If it matters, I'll single, slot it. If it really matters, I'll double-slot it. If it's damage, defence, resistance or healing, I'll triple slot it. That's it.

Any time people start talking to me about procs and about how much what defence they get out of how many sets in how many power and how many of what sets I need in which powers at what level to soft-cap and how many of what in what I need to get how much recharge to get what kind of attack chain at what kind of DPS... I change the channel. Even simple dual-aspect enhancements get on my nerves without accounting for Set bonuses. Luckily, we'll never get Common dual-aspect enhancements so I'll never have to deal with that (because if we did, I'd feel like I had to at least figure out if they're better - and they often are), but the point remains.

I don't want systems where I have to decide how many percent of which aspect I want to enhance down to a hundredth of a percent point. For instance, if I have 100% to split between accuracy, damage and endurance reduction in a power, how would I split it? I don't know, because my enhancement doesn't come in large lump units. It's much easier to tell if I want one or two than to tell which of the 10 000 possibilities I pick between 0.00% and 100.00%

You seem to have misinterpreted my point. I never claimed I wanted bosses to be hard in a better way. I'm perfectly fine with them being easy. I'm perfectly fine with the game not having any challenge. Just fifteen minutes ago, I quit out of a L4D2 game because some ******* kept voting to increase the difficulty and finally managed to succeed. I don't want to play a game of optimization where I'm "challenged" by what comes down to a numbers puzzle.

Let me put it this way - if I had my way, I'd prefer to play games like Soul Reaver or Darksiders or Advent Rising. Games that include levelling up and powering up, but where the system isn't complicated.

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That's more a skill system than an advantage/disadvantage system. Having a hacker that can handle a particular situation while someone else has to do it another way isn't an advantage to one and disadvantage to another. That's just giving one character a capability they didn't have...like one being able to fly and fight airborne enemies but the other can only run around fast.
I'm really not motivated enough about this idea to actually try to move it forward, but it's an idea which I probably wouldn't challenge if it were suggested. I like the idea, just not enough to bother writing up an actual suggestion. If you make one, though, I'd support it.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I don't want systems where I have to decide how many percent of which aspect I want to enhance down to a hundredth of a percent point. For instance, if I have 100% to split between accuracy, damage and endurance reduction in a power, how would I split it? I don't know, because my enhancement doesn't come in large lump units. It's much easier to tell if I want one or two than to tell which of the 10 000 possibilities I pick between 0.00% and 100.00%
Well of course a hypothetical overly-complicated system is going to be complicated. It'd be annoying as crap if I had to find mutant enemies and 'mine' in their areas for specific number of dual-origin enhancements to combine them for single-origin enhancements. If I am off by even 1 component, it'll break or give me a red SO that won't enhance my powers. See? Hypothetical tedious system is tedious.

Basically saying, you can't really argue about how complicated something is if it doesn't exist...because then it can simply be argued 'well make it simpler'. I guess you *can* do that, but what a boring discussion that'd be.

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You seem to have misinterpreted my point. I never claimed I wanted bosses to be hard in a better way. I'm perfectly fine with them being easy. I'm perfectly fine with the game not having any challenge. Just fifteen minutes ago, I quit out of a L4D2 game because some ******* kept voting to increase the difficulty and finally managed to succeed. I don't want to play a game of optimization where I'm "challenged" by what comes down to a numbers puzzle.
Right. Now remove the 'number puzzle' argument and see where you stand. That you don't want the option of challenge? So you hate every person that loves a game so much, they play it all the time and can breeze through the 'easy stuff' so seek more challenge? But that's not even my point. I don't care about people wanting to challenge themselves. I'm mainly looking at this from a simulation point. You can wave away some stuff, like how your robot character can be just as effected by psionics as that human over there, but you're eventually hand waving a lot of stuff that *could* be an interesting system that'd be more robust than the rock-paper-scissors game we currently have.


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I'm really not motivated enough about this idea to actually try to move it forward, but it's an idea which I probably wouldn't challenge if it were suggested. I like the idea, just not enough to bother writing up an actual suggestion. If you make one, though, I'd support it.
I won't. Writing such posts takes time and I won't be putting that much effort into something that will get about as much actual discussion done as this thread. Have you seen how far this idea got even though it *could* have?


 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
I so hate internet memes. They start out kind of funny or possibly even clever but goes further and further into the annoying territory the more often they're used. And don't get me started on people that leak this BS into normal speech. Oh man, when people *say* facepalm or 'pwned' it's enough to make me want to resort to violence. Uhg...
Unless people are willing to book a flight over to blighty just to see my expression in person as to how dumb I think an idea is, then they and others are simply going to have to suffer the facepalms. It's self inflicted, maybe it'll learn them

Basically put, there already are weaknesses built into each AT and set. Asking for the level of special snowflakeness that is being suggested in this thread is, pure and simply, unrealistic.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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So your stance is that an advantage/disadvantage system is an unrealistic expectation in this game rather than the merits of such a hypothetical game addition?

Funny how a picture of Optimus Prime does *not* express that accurately >_>


 

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I think Sam is looking at the idea being a flat plus or minus. I would imagine the idea of vulnerabilities would be balanced again the prevalence of certain types of damage as well as the type itself. Look at Smashing/Lethal, this type of damage is everywhere, but most builds can shrug it off like flies (to the complaint of many A/R Blasters). On the other side is Psy, which is the "great equalizer" in this game as almost nothing has resistance to it (remember when everyone thought Psy-Blasters would be killing machines). We already have weaknesses to a certain extent, but none so drastic to be noticeable. As long as it remains in the ideal of "risk v. reward", I see no problem with it. I even think it would create a interesting new dynamic. You may be a god of fire, but that Crey Cryo Armor is gonna clean your clock!


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
So your stance is that an advantage/disadvantage system is an unrealistic expectation in this game rather than the merits of such a hypothetical game addition?

Funny how a picture of Optimus Prime does *not* express that accurately >_>
Nah, the Primepalm was an accurate expression of the stage the thread was at at the time
Trust me, I save my pics for when I think they are actually worthy of the thread.
Otherwise I'd never stop posting them, this being the internet and all


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton View Post
I think Sam is looking at the idea being a flat plus or minus. I would imagine the idea of vulnerabilities would be balanced again the prevalence of certain types of damage as well as the type itself.........I even think it would create a interesting new dynamic. You may be a god of fire, but that Crey Cryo Armor is gonna clean your clock!
This was actually the angle I made with the [Tag] mechanic and my mind keeps gravitating to the idea in the mornings when I'm driving to work or on my jog.

The way I figure is, certain tags would make your attacks have advantages to certain enemies but disadvantages to others...like, again, the [Exorcist] tag would be flagged to do 'something more' vs ghost and demon types so I could make a spiritualist Shaman that has cleansing spirit fire that extinguishes those types of evil (Fire blaster with [Exorcist])...but then vs deities or god-like foes, it might be penalized in some way.

You can even aim it toward origins. Of course, if you decide not to use [Tags], then you're neutral with no advantage or penalty vs enemies that isn't already built in. And the only way to game it is to aim for certain enemies and run from others. Perfectly fine option but not always the case on teams. Or maybe 'game' it to cover a weakness...like adding the [Circuitry Surge] tag (which may do 'something more' vs robots and add an associated debuff vs Technology types) to your Psy Blasts and call it Technokinesis/Technopathy.