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Originally Posted by Zem
I think if you look at the power detail in game you find that CS doesn't crit at all, ever. The mechanism for recharging Build Up seems to be handled behind the scenes somehow or else it's just that they forgot to add the code that could translate that line-item in CS's effect list into English for the power detail screen.
Either way, it sounds from reading threads like this one that it boils down to a 20% chance to recharge Build Up whenever CS *hits* regardless of your Hidden state. That would also seem to preclude the "double critical" bug from happening with CS (thus giving you two chances after a Placate) which only occurs when the power has different behavior inside Hide and outside of Hide. Or to put it still another way, using CS after Placate is completely pointless and a waste of Placate. Or have I misunderstood? |
I am confused as well.
Let's just say that the ONLY time I see instant recharge is when I use Placate and CS. Other than that, the chances are either too small (for me to care) or my build up was recharged when I used CS so no effect at all.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Yeah... kind of makes me wish I'd paid more attention to the beta forums. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Let's just say that the ONLY time I see instant recharge is when I use Placate and CS. Other than that, the chances are either too small (for me to care) or my build up was recharged when I used CS so no effect at all.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
I am confused as well.
Let's just say that the ONLY time I see instant recharge is when I use Placate and CS. Other than that, the chances are either too small (for me to care) or my build up was recharged when I used CS so no effect at all. |
I have taken it to mean you have a 20% chance to have CS cause build up to recharge anytime the power would crit. Meaning that there is a 20% chance to recharge buildup anytime you use CS after placate or from hidden, and then a 20% chance to recharge buildup on any 10% chance to crit out of hide/placate.
So from hide/placate 1 out of 5 CS's should recharge buildup. If scrapping it out you have a 1 out of 10 chance to have a 1 out of 5 chance to recharge buildup.
So teamates have an impact on how many chances chances you have to have a 20% chance to recharge build up.
(If that makes sense, not the mechanic but what I said)
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.
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It makes sense to me but I normally only reserve one Build Up per spawn. I don't like using build up just for one last boss because that means I have no build up initially for the next spawn. |
Originally Posted by MutantX_7
I have taken it to mean you have a 20% chance to have CS cause build up to recharge anytime the power would crit. Meaning that there is a 20% chance to recharge buildup anytime you use CS after placate or from hidden, and then a 20% chance to recharge buildup on any 10% chance to crit out of hide/placate.
So from hide/placate 1 out of 5 CS's should recharge buildup. If scrapping it out you have a 1 out of 10 chance to have a 1 out of 5 chance to recharge buildup. So teamates have an impact on how many chances chances you have to have a 20% chance to recharge build up. (If that makes sense, not the mechanic but what I said) |
I usually run teams myself and I already need to wait for 8s to get ready for the next spawn. 8s is fine with me but I enjoy Build Up + Burst so much that I would hate not having build up ready for next spawn. This means I don't really rely on CS's build up instant recharge. If it happens great (not that I really pay attention to), and if it doesn't, then I just hit hard.
The only time I think this feature matters at all is during very very hard battle. Other than that, this feature is almost like a "non factor" to me.
I did placate + cs to test the feature. In reality, it would benefit way more if I do placate + burst to a group or placate + assassin on a boss. There is really no need for placate + cs.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
It hits pretty hard, with a nice stun attached. Good for when you have to get scrappy. When you are in HIDE only AS or perhaps BURST (in large groups) should be used first. I think the problem is that you do not see your build up, but sometimes when I notice, it I see a huge damage increase. It would be nice if they gave a noise or something to let you know it activated, but whatever. I think this power only suffers from long animation making it partially situational, although it is a monster in pvp. I use this as a finisher sometimes, not as an opener. I usually open with BU + BURST + placate + AS the boss then CS if still standing somehow (which is rare). On some teams I just BU + burst and scrap it out. Usually solo, or depending on team movement through mobs do I worry about starting with AS. If you view a mob as one mass enemy with a lot of HP, you do more damage with BU + BURST not to mention the sweet sweet knockdown (its like footstomp for stalkers sorta).
I will try to pay more attention and run some experiments to see if CS is triggering as described and acting as proposed. I doubt they would buff it considering how awesome KM is on stalkers compared to the other primaries. If anything, I fear the nerfbat a little.
By the way, I was a bit surprised that the stun chance isn't 100%. CS seems like a typical Total Focus type but doesn't have the same stun chance and costs the same endurance. The activation is a tiny bit faster even though all Kin attacks look "slower" because the actual damage comes at the end of activation; whereas some attacks may deal damage earlier and then you are stuck in that activation (example Midnight Grasp does damage very fast and then you are stuck there for a bit).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
That's a good observation. I had completely forgot about powers like TF and ET with regards to its stun chance. It wouldn't be out of line, IMO, if all ATs' Concentrated Strike had a 100% stun chance. What's the duration of it again?
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Actually it *would* be out of line. Why should CS have a 100% stun AND KM's signature -dmg debuff when Total Focus only has the 100% stun?
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
That's a good observation. I had completely forgot about powers like TF and ET with regards to its stun chance. It wouldn't be out of line, IMO, if all ATs' Concentrated Strike had a 100% stun chance. What's the duration of it again?
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Because EM gets Energy Transfer too which is a 100% stun as well as Stun which is a 100% stun.
Hmm, I'm sure there's another attack in Kinetic that doesn't get the signature -dmg of the set...which one was that again?
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Repulsing Torrent. Of course that power has other things going for it (as well as other strikes against it). Also, Stalkers do not get it. Although I don't think AS gets the damage debuff, so maybe that is what you were referring to? Though, none of the Assassin's moves get the signature secondary effect of their set (DM kind of does, but only by coincidence).|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Because EM gets Energy Transfer too which is a 100% stun as well as Stun which is a 100% stun.
Hmm, I'm sure there's another attack in Kinetic that doesn't get the signature -dmg of the set...which one was that again? |
Energy Transfer is not a 100% chance to stun, it is only 50%. KM has a lot of things going for it over EnM, I do not think CS needs to have the 100% chance to stun that TF gets.
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Yeah, all the -damage is probably better than 100% chance to stun. I just don't notice the -damage that much. Maybe the targets die too quick. I need to find a Hero/AV to test the -damage.
Do most AVs/Heroes have high resistance to -damage debuff?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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As has been pointed out, ET is not a 100% stun. And Stun's stun is not a side-effect. It is the primary effect of the power. Damage is the secondary-effect of Stun. Bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison you've made there.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Because EM gets Energy Transfer too which is a 100% stun as well as Stun which is a 100% stun.
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Point is... stunning is not KM's "thing". Damage debuff and self-damage buff is. KM is actually pretty well served by having not only an overriding theme for its secondary effect of damage debuff, but a fairly good smattering of tertiary effects as well like knockdown and stun chances.
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I was trying to make the comparison between mitigative powers, specifically Repulsing Torrent. If the theme of the set is -dmg, then its mitigating power should have it but it doesn't. It doesn't even provide a self-damage buff when used with Power Siphon and the KB isn't 100% either.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison you've made there.
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But my point was, KM has multiple deviation points, the stun in the tier 9 being one of them.
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A target's resistance dictates how they resist a particular type of -damage debuff.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Yeah, all the -damage is probably better than 100% chance to stun. I just don't notice the -damage that much. Maybe the targets die too quick. I need to find a Hero/AV to test the -damage.
Do most AVs/Heroes have high resistance to -damage debuff? |
ie. fire resist makes you resist -fire damage debuff
Its also why Infernal hits so hard, you can't really reduce his damage with -dmg.
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Divine Avalanche. Siren's Song. Freeze Ray.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I was trying to make the comparison between mitigative powers, specifically Repulsing Torrent. If the theme of the set is -dmg, then its mitigating power should have it but it doesn't.
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| It doesn't even provide a self-damage buff when used with Power Siphon and the KB isn't 100% either. |
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| But my point was, KM has multiple deviation points, the stun in the tier 9 being one of them. |
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Could swear I saw somewhere that KM's -dmg isn't resisted in this way. Any truth to this or was it just plain wrong? Can't remember where I saw that. Might have been the beta boards.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
A target's resistance dictates how they resist a particular type of -damage debuff.
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Either way, it sounds from reading threads like this one that it boils down to a 20% chance to recharge Build Up whenever CS *hits* regardless of your Hidden state. That would also seem to preclude the "double critical" bug from happening with CS (thus giving you two chances after a Placate) which only occurs when the power has different behavior inside Hide and outside of Hide. Or to put it still another way, using CS after Placate is completely pointless and a waste of Placate.
Or have I misunderstood?
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