You can't really be a tankermind with a melee pet set... That is the help I'm giving you.
Quote:
I will echo this, but try to explain a bit more.. Not saying it is NOT possible, just more difficult and definitely not possible with this build.. |
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
You can't really be a tankermind with a melee pet set... That is the help I'm giving you.
|
You need to be DEFENSE CAPPED, not defense capped for this type of build. You need either many more defenses if not ALL capped to be able to pull Tankermind off. Otherwise every energy mob will drop you flat fast. Regardless of bodyguard mode and the resistances you might have. Elite Bosses or several bosses will dwindle down your health. Even if you had super regen and your heals up in .5 seconds you would not be able to keep your pets alive.
In bodyguard mode an AV or a High con EB would kills your tier 1 pets in 1 or 2 hits.. Your Tier 2 pets would be hurt. Another hit or even 2 ( I'm being nice with my estimations ) will kill off your Tier 2 pets. Your Tier 3 pet will maybe take 1 more hit before it dies.. Then your next..
It is very difficult to get Pain Defense capped. ATM this is best I can do. Compare it to your build to see the differences.
Range pets are much easier because big bosses, AVs do AOE attacks which might not hurt you because of defenses, but will kill off your pets instead.
It seems you understand defenses, but are thinking all you need is Smash and Lethal capped. Which is where your concept went off the mark. That is why I mentioned Energy attacking mob above..
Either way I hope you got something out of this, and maybe some new idea's as well
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: Pain Domination
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Demonlings -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Dmg(7), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), BldM'dt-Acc(21)
Level 1: Nullify Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(A), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(5), H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Lash -- ExStrk-Dam%(A), ExStrk-Dmg/KB(37), FrcFbk-Rechg%(48), ExStrk-Acc/KB(50)
Level 4: Soothe -- Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(A), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(5), H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(11)
Level 6: Enchant Demon -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 10: Conduit of Pain -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Summon Demons -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(13), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(13), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), BldM'dt-Acc(15), BldM'dt-Dmg(25)
Level 14: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(17)
Level 18: Hell on Earth -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(19), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(19), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), BldM'dt-Acc(31), BldM'dt-Dmg(36)
Level 20: Suppress Pain -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(21), EndRdx-I(33)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), EndMod-I(23)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(25), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-EndRdx(39), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), RedFtn-Def(46)
Level 26: Summon Demon Prince -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), BldM'dt-Acc(29), BldM'dt-Dmg(31)
Level 28: World of Pain -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(33), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), ImpArm-ResDam(34), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-EndRdx(34), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def(40)
Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Anguishing Cry -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), LdyGrey-%Dam(36), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 38: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 41: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Build%(43), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46)
Level 44: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(45), RedFtn-EndRdx(45), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(46), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), RedFtn-Def(48)
Level 47: Painbringer -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Scorpion Shield -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(50), DefBuff-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 6: Ninja Run
Code:
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1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Thanks for the input. It looks like tanking is out of the question with Necromancy. Its to bad as I really wanted to run a build with them as I don't see many Necros around.
As for the defense I was able to get just about everything to cap on a Necro/Traps build but could not figure out how to with Pain. Thanks for the build as you manged your IOs better than I could. I focused too much on trying to be different and get regen as high as possible. I guess I was pretending to be a scrapper.
On a non Tankermind build is necromancy viable or do AOEs make melee pets sub-par for higher end content? If possible I would still like to run Necromancy but will build a more "normal" MM instead of focusing on tanking myself.
You might be able to get good mileage out of Necro/Thermal, Thermal has some good heals and shields.
I would echo all here with tankermind and necro. Even necro for any kind of playstyle solo is really hard.
So far the only sort of soloing I have been able to do at higher levels with necro has been with dark (large amounts of control and -to hit) and thermal.
The low resist to fire with necro pets tier 1 and 2 make them very squishy to any burn patches or explosions.
For tankermind, the best still remains Bots/traps with the super stacked bubbles and FF generator on you.
@Boerewors
Quote:
If you look at some of my threads in various AT forums you will see I push traps a lot. Traps and anything else is king. You can run Traps without pets and still do +1 +8, it's that good. People will say Dark is nice as well and I will agree, but since dark has nothing like trip mine you must have your pets for dps. With traps my pets are doing extra damage but not a requirement.|
Originally Posted by Arovin_Summers
Thanks for the input. It looks like tanking is out of the question with Necromancy. Its to bad as I really wanted to run a build with them as I don't see many Necros around.
As for the defense I was able to get just about everything to cap on a Necro/Traps build but could not figure out how to with Pain. Thanks for the build as you manged your IOs better than I could. I focused too much on trying to be different and get regen as high as possible. I guess I was pretending to be a scrapper. On a non Tankermind build is necromancy viable or do AOEs make melee pets sub-par for higher end content? If possible I would still like to run Necromancy but will build a more "normal" MM instead of focusing on tanking myself. |
Though I have been playing around trying to make a tankermind out of pain. As I mentioned I'm a bit short on the defense caps. I am still working on it to see how close I can get. Pain unlike dark though does not have darkest night which helps your defense cap in the other direction, by lowering mobs to hit score. Which is really similar to gaining a defense increase.
As was mentioned Thermal is good and many consider Thermal superior to Pain. I sort of consider pain the set that just has enough to get you into trouble, but not much to get you out of it. It is still a new set to me as well and I have been asking around in other parts of the forums. I think it was Silias that mentioned the aoe regen for pain is much higher for MM then it is for others. Which is a bonus. Again something I didn't look at. Though I think it is mentioned in mids hero builder. Just something I over looked. And to be honest about pain, I have not seen any big info on it. I have not seen any of the big number crunching players put out data on how many of the powers work such. Again not when compared to some of the other power sets.
Personally I am thinking of maybe doing the same of kicking up all the Pain aspects and have high regen for world of pain and such. Might not be the +1 +8 solo machine, but the healing aspect might be of value to some end game TF and SF players. People remember how good the heals are or lack thereof. That might be a route to go. Then once 50 you can make a Defense cap Pain build but just to S and L and keep a 50 AE ticket mission based around S and L type mobs, like the samurai AE and some S and L regular mission to farm IOs and salvage.
You know there are so many angles sometimes who knows whats right or best to do.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Quote:
A Non-Tankermind Necro build is very much possible. I only have experience with Necro/Poison (which I wouldn't recommend for teaming in PvE), but I pretty much soloed all the way to 50 on relentless (not sure what the difficulty equivalent would be now, +4 x0?). And I didn't solo because I like to, the zombies just died so fast on teams that I may as well just go petless.|
Originally Posted by Arovin_Summers
Thanks for the input. It looks like tanking is out of the question with Necromancy. Its to bad as I really wanted to run a build with them as I don't see many Necros around.
As for the defense I was able to get just about everything to cap on a Necro/Traps build but could not figure out how to with Pain. Thanks for the build as you manged your IOs better than I could. I focused too much on trying to be different and get regen as high as possible. I guess I was pretending to be a scrapper. On a non Tankermind build is necromancy viable or do AOEs make melee pets sub-par for higher end content? If possible I would still like to run Necromancy but will build a more "normal" MM instead of focusing on tanking myself. |
I will also confirm what everyone else in this thread has said. Tankerminding does not work well with Necro. I respecced into a tankermind build at 50 after hearing about how great it was, but I was sorely disappointed. In fact, I don't think I've played that toon since I ruined him with that build. It's just too much effort to respec and get the right enhancements again...
Another Quick question while I work on my new build tonight. Does the Damage Buff from IO sets effect pets or just your character?
Quote:
Just you, unfortunately.
|
Originally Posted by Arovin_Summers
Another Quick question while I work on my new build tonight. Does the Damage Buff from IO sets effect pets or just your character?
|
OK, maybe at this point I should just start a new thread as I have gone from wanting a Tankermind Necro build, to a normal MM Necro build and now to something completely different. But for now I'll see how far this thread goes.
I have given up my want for a Necro build and hopped on the Demon band wagon. I still wanted to be unique and tried my best make a build with trick arrow. I figured I could focus on recharge time and control while my demons ripped things up. They could even light the oil patch for me. I think it looks promising and will be fun to play, again at end game who knows how well it will work. It will be a good experiment none the less.
Here is what I came up with.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Demonlings
- (A) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Sovereign Right - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Endurance
- (5) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus
- (5) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus
- (7) Edict of the Master - Damage
- (A) Gravitational Anchor - Chance for Hold
- (48) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize
- (48) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Recharge
- (48) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
- (50) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff
- (7) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff
- (9) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Recharge
- (9) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
- (11) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Pacing of the Turtle - Chance of -Recharge
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (11) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth
- (13) Unbounded Leap - Jumping
- (13) Winter's Gift - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
- (15) Winter's Gift - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
- (15) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)
- (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Chance for Recharge Slow
- (17) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
- (17) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
- (19) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
- (A) Blood Mandate - Damage
- (19) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
- (21) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
- (21) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
- (23) Healing IO
- (23) Healing IO
- (A) Jumping IO
- (25) Jumping IO
- (A) Fortunata Hypnosis - Sleep
- (25) Fortunata Hypnosis - Sleep/Recharge
- (27) Fortunata Hypnosis - Accuracy/Sleep/Recharge
- (27) Fortunata Hypnosis - Accuracy/Recharge
- (29) Fortunata Hypnosis - Chance for Placate
- (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
- (29) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (31) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
- (31) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
- (31) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Recharge
- (33) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets
- (A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
- (33) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
- (33) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
- (34) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
- (34) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
- (34) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (36) Miracle - +Recovery
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (36) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (A) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage
- (36) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (37) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Endurance
- (39) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown
- (40) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (40) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
- (40) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
- (42) Ragnarok - Damage
- (42) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
- (A) Unbreakable Constraint - Hold
- (42) Unbreakable Constraint - Hold/Recharge
- (43) Unbreakable Constraint - Accuracy/Hold/Recharge
- (43) Unbreakable Constraint - Accuracy/Recharge
- (43) Unbreakable Constraint - Endurance/Hold
- (45) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (45) Red Fortune - Defense
- (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (46) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (46) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
- (50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Empty
Level 2: Ninja Run
Code:
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Hell on Earth up nearly 50% of the time
Power Boost up nearly 50% of the time
Glue Arrow always up
Emp Arrow (one of the best holds in the game) up every 1:20
Oil slick up every 50s means its only down for 20s should be up once for every fight
The only thing I am unhappy about it having to slot Entangle arrow over Glue arrow for the extra 10% recharge.
I think overall it will be fun to play. Again, I will be happy with any suggestions. Thanks
Hello I'm a returning player and looking to build a tankermind. I'm not a huge fan of FF for all the knock back and I am ok with using traps but thematically it is tough to go with zombies. I decided to play around with Pain as a secndary and this is what I came up with.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Necromancy
Secondary Power Set: Pain Domination
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Chill Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Zombie Horde -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg(7), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(7), BldM'dt-Acc(9), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(9), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11)
Level 1: Nullify Pain -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(3), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 2: Soothe -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(5), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 4: Share Pain -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Numna-Heal(23)
Level 6: Enchant Undead -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Jump Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), KntkC'bat-Knock%(40)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(34), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(34), Winter-ResSlow(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 12: Grave Knight -- S'bndAl-Dmg(A), S'bndAl-Acc/Rchg(13), S'bndAl-Build%(13), SvgnRt-PetResDam(15), EdctM'r-PetDef(15), EdctM'r-Dmg(17)
Level 14: Life Drain -- Nictus-Heal(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(17), Nictus-Acc/Heal(19), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(19), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 16: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), KntkC'bat-Knock%(42)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A), Jump-I(31)
Level 20: Suppress Pain -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(21)
Level 22: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Knock%(45)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(43), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 26: Lich -- SipInsght-ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(27), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(27), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SipInsght-%ToHit(31)
Level 28: World of Pain -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(48)
Level 30: Provoke -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(31), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(33), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(33), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(33)
Level 32: Dark Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Anguishing Cry -- AnWeak-%ToHit(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(39), Mrcl-Heal(39)
Level 41: Flash Freeze -- CSndmn-Acc/Rchg(A), CSndmn-Sleep/Rng(45), CSndmn-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(50), CSndmn-EndRdx/Sleep(50)
Level 44: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Jump(A), ULeap-Stlth(36)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 4: Ninja Run
The order is still up in the air as this build focuses on seeing what I could get with IO bonuses. I'll adjust the leveling order once I am happy with power selection and bonuses.
This hits the Defense cap for Smashing/Lethal and since pain does not have a ton of personal defense focus I decided to put as much into Regeneration as possible and combined that with self and pet healing. Managed to get Regen with Suppress Pain toggled on to 640%. With this a big AOE heal and Lifedrian I hope this will be a survivable build.
For attacks I figure with the self centered AOE heal and zombies being in melee I should be in melee range too. My goal is to use the pool power attacks, life drain and Provoke to hold aggro.
I know I missed some of the Key grouping powers in Pain but I am planning on using this as a solo build.
Any suggestions welcome I really am just trying to see if this is at all viable.
Thanks