kat/invun v.s. kat/wp...

Some time in the next few months I am thinking of roleing a "Warrior's Mark" toon. The premise is based on multi culture warriors. I might even create this toon sooner, and have him a praetorian... Anyways.

I have a 50 invun/axe/bod tank, and had a wp/sm lvl 35 and I have a wp/ss lvl 39 tank...

I prefer the feel of invun, but I created a good kat/invun build. but besides S/L scrap side resists are kinda lack luster. Whether WP or Invun. My build is going to have a solid attack chain coupled with a mix of res/def/regen/recovery.

Just not sure, which would make a tougher jack of trades kind of build. This would be a toon that should beable to rival "Timeless Seraphima" my bs/sd, which can solo most anything at +3x8.

I am really on the fence here, Like I said I am not much on the feel of WP, however that tanker has really taken off. He is very tough, no where near as tough as "Protector-Knight" but that can be adjusted as his build levels out.

a friendly arguement between the two would be nice. I am also aware of Werner's two kat/wp scraps he just put in that thread about regen v.s WP.

Kind of depends on your budget, I guess. Kat/Inv is easier to soft cap and has better resistances, but assuming unlimited budget Kat/WP is most likely better due to higher damage recovery, which is what matters mostly after you reach the soft cap.

I, too, prefer the feel of Invuln scrappers. My main scrapper is Kat/Inv, so I am biased towards that. No scrapper I have ever made has been as much fun.

I have a 50 WM/WP tanker and a near 40 Fire/WP scrapper. The tanker is practically unkillable, the scrapper is decently survivable, which is impressive considering they have no active mitigation. But I find them kind of boring (the tanker is OK, because they have work to do, the scrapper is actually not much fun to play, but I have a solid concept for them, so, from time to time, I am drawn back to playing them for story).

When I gather more enemies around my Kat/Invuln scrapper or my WP/WM tanker, I can almost always see my green bar stop moving down. When I get more enemies around my Fire/WP, I usually take more damage, so its a race to get my AoEs to kill them before they kill me. There really is nothing I can do to help improve my survivability. Pulling out to lower damage also eliminates my healing. Gathering them to improve my healing makes the damage incoming outpace the healing. The self-rez is terrible, much to my dismay. I thought Resurgence would be the thing that made the set interesting on my scrapper, but more often than not I die again when I use it (whereas, when I use RotP, more often than not the enemies die and I keep moving through the mission). All that leaves me is SoW, which works good on my tanker, but I have not had it long yet on my scrapper.

Unstoppable is exciting and forces me to pay attention and be ready to pop inspires before the crash (or fall back on rare occasions). I can make sure to leave minions while I kill the bosses and lts. in order to keep my incoming damage down. I can hope Dull Pain recharges again soon. And I am shiny (but maybe you can make WP shiny too now, I haven't tried).

Really, though, you'll want to get your S/L/E/NE Defenses at 35%+ with one enemy in melee range. My current build has about 38% S/L and 36% E/NE Defense with one enemy in melee range, and it works really nicely for just about everything. Add to that ~30hp/sec regen and capped HPs and you've got a really sturdy scrapper.

With slight tweaking of the build, I could get to S/L soft cap with only one enemy in melee range at the cost of some F/C resistance and 5% +Rech, but I'm not sure it's worth all the hassle. I'm not really big on soloing AVs so soft capping with only one enemy isn't really what I need to enjoy my playstyle.

You could check my guide in my sig for an example build. I think it isn't the latest version of the build, however, so if you like what you see in the guide and are happy with using Ninja Run as your travel power, just ask me and I'll post my current build here.

PK, I'm glad you brought this up!

I'm thinking about building a new scrapper for praetoria. I'm looking at Katana primary and either Invulnerability or Willpower as a secondary. The highest I have gotten either secondary on a Scrapper is low to mid 30's. The Invuln was last touched in i6. I haven't seen what it can do since the buff it got a short while ago. I have a BS/WP that I haven't played in a long while either..BS just seemed so slow and it wasn't IO'd out. There is a lvl 50 BS/WP in my SG, but not IO'd out either, and seems a bit squishy.

My question is this: which secondary, fully IO'd out (w/o purps or PvPs) has the greatest survivability for most™ of the content this game offers? And for extreme situations (solo +4 x 8 as an example...not that I would, but if I wanted to)? This is for PvE only. I mostly team, but occasionally solo. cash/merits aren't a problem.

I too am looking for some good debate!!! please and thank you!!!

I'm guessing if you're making it a Praetorian, you'll be taking him redside? If that's your plan, I really can't recommend anything Inv with the constant battles against Arachnos (Fortunatas, Night Widows and Tarantula Mistresses and Queens) who will chew you out constantly. At which point going WP is a no brainer; and you did say you wanted an all-rounder or rather a tougher jack-of-all-trades.

In addition, Kat/WP is reasonably easy to softcap to S/L/E/N/F/C. The expensive part is the Numis and LoTGs for the regen and rechage to make it all work.

IMO, WP has good survivability for basically everything in the game, and goes well with pretty much any flavor of support you can team with. Main issue on its own is facing heavy defense debuff enemies, it has only moderate amounts of def on its own and its def cascades down fairly fast. WP gets good resistance and defense to psychic, along with its high regen rate. Gets a +perception buff in the defense toggle (helps vs late game arachnos smoke grenades). Also gets fear and confuse status protection, which, although rare, are handy to have sometimes.

Invuln has REALLY good protection to smash/lethal, decent to fire/cold/energy/negative, and absolutely crap to psychic.

Praetoria throws psychic enemies at you REALLY early.

WP gets most of its defenses earlier than invuln does. Invuln doesn't really feel good as as set until 28, when you get invincibility. For willpower each power is yet another layer of survivability, invuln is *extremely* dependent on invincibility. Willpower also gets a passive + max hp power and fast healing, which is really nice for early game. Also being able to skip/put off fitness for a while is really nice for willpower early on, cause it gets quick recovery at level 20 and you don't have to spend power picks on fitness to get it.

TLDR: Invuln is great if you want to beat up romans all day long late game, WP is good for everything else.

As with willpower, each power you take will add to your layer of surviablity. Counting set bonus, UY with Resit Ele and Ngy, I'm about 38% protection vs. When you get UY at lvl 16, things get easier. Invuln is a great powerset for all lvls and foes...well but those with alot psi attacks.
Look at the buffs that Castle gave the powerset and remember it's easier to softcap Invul than WP.

I have a lvl 44 WP/SS Tanker. Only half IO'd out and he rocks (now). I did have a bit of trouble with him at lvl 35 when I jumped on an ITF, sk'd up to 50 against +3's. I chewed a lot of skittles that TF. I suspect no Foot Stomp had something to do with it, as well as no SoW. I've duo'd with a Shield/DM Tank on a mission set for 6 against Nemesis and they wreaked havoc on me as well...nearly put the Shield Tanker in the grave on several occasions. I did have Foot Stomp and SoW at that point. I'm guessing fully IO'ing him out might fix that. I've taken my Invuln Tanks against Nemesis and Romans and laughed. Even Carnies aren't too bad...have to pop a purple for the Ring Mistresses tho (before the Invln buff too).

All that being said, those are Tanks. My concern is that my Scrapper will have less protection. I like the triple layers of protection of both secondaries. They both do it a bit differently which isn't an issue. The more resistance and DP of Invulnerability appeals to me. The psi, fear and confuse protections and +perc of WP appeal to me as does the extra Stamina (but this is Katana). Both have some good Defense numbers. You don't see alot about Invuln Scrappers in the forums, even after the buff. I may have to dig deep into the forums.

The Katana with DA will help quite a bit I'm sure.

Sorry for the late response, protector... Haven't noticed this thread for some reason.

For a tailored build I'd suggest any of the builds I posted with purple sets replaced by either Kinetic Combat/Mako combination (Hecatomb) or Eradication/Scirocco (Armageddon). Swapping SoTW for GC will increase your DPS because GC is the better attack out of the two. It also recharges faster making it a better filler. You can keep Flashing Steel if you like it, I only took Hasten to get me to perma DP and better ST DPS which seem to be goals different from yours.