Why doesn't anyone talk about widow/forts?
By
Aerik,
Posted on: 2010-06-22 06:16 in Soldiers of Arachnos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Redd35
Why are 90% of the forum topics about crabs/bane/huntsman? In my experience I have been having a lot of fun with my Fortuna and I was looking through the topics to get some advice but they are trumped by the amount of other topics.
Leveling a solder from 1-24 was one of the worst and unfun game experiences I have ever suffered through. The crab legs are...annoying especially if you have a dual build with something other than crab. Is the soldier branch really that more powerful than the widow branches? |
Well Silas just made a Fort guide recently which is pretty good, even if my own current build direction is angled more towards the AOE Blaster-with-ridiculous-defenses path.
Certainly I've never felt my Fort or Widow was being overshadowed by SoAs in any way, we just end up buffing each other and the whole team ending up being pretty awesome.
What advice were you looking for?*
Do you have a link to the guide? I did not find it in the Guides and FAQs section.
On my fort...
I worked out a build in mids that had Melee and Ranged softcapped with AoE being WAY over the cap. I was able to do this without ML. Was wondering if I screwed something up because I did it using pretty cheap sets.
The advice in particular I was looking for was if Mask Presence necessary if I don't have any powers from the widow branch. Also if Darkest Night from the epic pool was as good as the Darkest Night from DM.
In time, I'll come to forgive you.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Redd35
Do you have a link to the guide? I did not find it in the Guides and FAQs section.
On my fort... I worked out a build in mids that had Melee and Ranged softcapped with AoE being WAY over the cap. I was able to do this without ML. Was wondering if I screwed something up because I did it using pretty cheap sets. The advice in particular I was looking for was if Mask Presence necessary if I don't have any powers from the widow branch. Also if Darkest Night from the epic pool was as good as the Darkest Night from DM. |
Without Mindlink my Melee defense is 33% at the mo, and my ranged something like 22%. So it should be easy to cap Melee with fairly cheap sets, but I dunno about ranged, it should be tougher to be making up the 23% or so you'd need. I did read a post yesterday about a Blaster where Mids was misreporting his defense totals so maybe it's that?*
I don't bother with Mask Presence on my Fort. None of the powers I've taken crit so I find it more fun just to pull with Psi Tornado and watch everything miss me.
DN from the epic pool is exactly the same as the Dark Melee version but modified by your AT modifiers, so it comes out fairly low overall, even lower than the MM version. Still 8.5% -ToHit is the same as +8.5% defense (except vs AVs) and it's slottable to up to about 13%, plus you've a bit of a Damage debuff (16%) so I'd say it's still well worth it layered on top of your other defenses, especially if your build turns out not to be softcapped all of the time.
Edit : Silas's guide is at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...99#post2872599
I don't agree with it 100%, on teams AOE trumps single target damage IMO but it's a decent enough guide to them.
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Agreed, even though it gets better after the lvl 24 transition, it's still a huge pain in the *** to play. Personally there are only few things more painful than that; DP corruptor and a pre-IO dominator.|
Originally Posted by Redd35
Leveling a solder from 1-24 was one of the worst and unfun game experiences I have ever suffered through.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Redd35
Is the soldier branch really that more powerful than the widow branches?
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Quote:
Defense bonuses usually come from cheaper sets, so its possible. One thing to note is that if you have mask presence activated when you're checking stats in Mids, it uses the unsuppressed value. MP suppresses during combat so don't have it active when you're looking in mids, just add the suppressed value afterward.|
Originally Posted by Redd35
On my fort...
I worked out a build in mids that had Melee and Ranged softcapped with AoE being WAY over the cap. I was able to do this without ML. Was wondering if I screwed something up because I did it using pretty cheap sets. The advice in particular I was looking for was if Mask Presence necessary if I don't have any powers from the widow branch. Also if Darkest Night from the epic pool was as good as the Darkest Night from DM. |
My slotted mask presence grants 3.92% defense, activating it in mids grants 11.8%. This value is correct out of combat, but once you engage it drops to the suppressed value.
I don't think I've played my crab since I IO'd my widow. Bane and fortunata builds are on the back burner, but my widow build outperforms any other toon I have on either side down to level 25.
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I think I disagree with pretty much everything. I love Scream, Psi Nado, Confuse, Scramble Thoughts(even though it has a long activation), and I love being able to hit anything and everything with CT: O and the +tohit toggle.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Edit : Silas's guide is at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...99#post2872599 I don't agree with it 100%, on teams AOE trumps single target damage IMO but it's a decent enough guide to them. |
To the other poster: I did not have mask presence...I didnt even take it and I was still able to get over the softcap on all positional defenses without using any LOTG.
EDIT: Oh, and I think vengeance is entirely skippable.
In time, I'll come to forgive you.
Widows were definitely FOTM here for a long time, with the playing sort of like softcapped spines-scrappers with stalker aspects. Despite End issues, they're incredibly powerful if you like that sort of thing (I didn't, and switched to Fort in my 40s), and high-end builds tear apart AVs with ease.
However, they're melee-focused so they produce slightly-less satisfying AoE results than Banes or Crabs unless you can play them quite well.
Fortunas have the mixed blessing/curse of being very versatile, and so debates on here about particular builds falls into personal preference very quickly. Beyond the all-positions-softcap and a little bit of Endurance care, your goals are quite open: load up on AoE or maintain a killer ST chain? Stick solely to ranged or go for Mask Presence and crit?
My one complaint with my Fortuna is a lack of a self-heal. If something ignores my lovely softcapped Def, I can go down off one AV attack. My crab never has that issue.
I really enjoy my Night Widow and still play it now and again.
That said, my take on it is similar to that stated by Harkness.
It's not as tough or effective (against the masses) as my Brute.
It's not as sneaky or effective (against tough Bosses) as my Stalker.
It's a nice compromise blend of both of those AT's, so it's more
flexible (in general), but less capable in the areas where those other
AT's excel.
It's definitely less effective than either of those two in PvP also (imho).
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
You might say that people don't talk about Forts/Widows for a couple of reasons.
1. They are just so awesome that nothing else needs to be said.
2. They are afraid that this much awesome has to be a mistake and if they say something, Castle is going to come rain on their parade.
That being said, I enjoy my Fort immensely. So much so that she has become my go-to villain. I can fill many roles for my team. Damage dealer, non-heal buffs, stealther, light control, and so on. I brought her on a MoLGTF - Hard Mode run several time because I knew that she could contribute on every mission as well as being a toon that wasn't going to die easily.
I read a post somewhere that said that Forts are basically ranged scrappers. We have mez protection and loads of defense along with nice ranged blasting powers. I've tried my widow build from time to time and while I find it a refreshing change of pace every once in a while, I still find myself drifting back to my Fort.
I know my limitations, though. I can't tank. I can't heal. I'm not that great at debuffing anything other than recharge. But, knowing what I can accomplish allows me to fill in wherever necessary to let my team achieve the best possible results.
And, when GR comes out, I'll be sure to head over to the hero side of things and show the capes how awesome a real EAT can be.
Quote:
Pfft, whatever. |
Originally Posted by Aerik
And, when GR comes out, I'll be sure to head over to the hero side of things and show the capes how awesome a real EAT can be. |
You know you're just jealous because you don't have tentacles.
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
We're all Mind Linked.
We don't need to talk using the forums.
Eastern Standard Time (Australia)
is 15 hours ahead of
Eastern Standard Time (North America)
which is 5 hours behind
Greenwich Mean Time (GMT)
Quote:
Good point. But who needs yucky tentacles when you have mind bullets?|
Originally Posted by Tramontane
Pfft, whatever.
You know you're just jealous because you don't have tentacles. |
PEW PEW PEW!
Quote:
Ah, yes, but who needs mind-bullets when you can have glowy-light-star-bullets? THAT SHOOT FROM YOUR EYES?|
Originally Posted by Aerik
Good point. But who needs yucky tentacles when you have mind bullets?
PEW PEW PEW! |
... /Tentacles. >.>;;
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
Why are 90% of the forum topics about crabs/bane/huntsman? In my experience I have been having a lot of fun with my Fortuna and I was looking through the topics to get some advice but they are trumped by the amount of other topics.
Leveling a solder from 1-24 was one of the worst and unfun game experiences I have ever suffered through. The crab legs are...annoying especially if you have a dual build with something other than crab.
Is the soldier branch really that more powerful than the widow branches?
In time, I'll come to forgive you.