do heal IOs increase IH regen?

thank you Umbral, that explains it perfectly. I don't usually flip around to the effects tab in mids, so all I was seeing was the unchanging 600%. that also explains why on the totals tab, which I do use a lot, the regen % jumped around 1000% instead of 600% when I toggled IH on and off in the build.

and I believe several of the builds you have posted to help people here use the 3 recharge instead of Doctored slotting. I understand the concept of diminishing returns but slotting IH with the Doctored set increases that 200 to around 375, per the effects tab that I just discovered

that seems to be a pretty substantial amount of regen to pass up. is there a cap to the amount of regen you can have? I have learned a lot from your posts explaining why going for +HP on a regen isn't worth it because of the easily reached cap. in fact, that's one of the reasons I am playing with new builds because I was one of the people building for lots of +HP, thinking it would help the regen amounts. but I wasn't aware of an over-all regen cap.

Yes, there is a cap, but it is outrageously high. 3000% +regen outrageously high. You're not going to get that without a number of Empaths buffing the crap out of you.

The reason that many people, myself included on some occasions, ignore slotting heal enhancement into IH is largely an issue of slot. If I need to pull slots from somewhere, IH is a quick place to steal 2 slots (if I'm willing to give up the 5% +rech from Doctored Wounds, not that the 5% +rech set bonuses are rare) without diminishing the overall effectiveness of the power much. An increase of ~175-190% +regen might seem like a lot, but you've got to remember that IH isn't up all the time and, most of the time, when it is up, a lot of that +regen is overkill. It all comes down to the build in question and whether I want to get that little bit of extra regen (which I'm more likely to want from IH than from FH because of higher average contribution numbers) or if there is something more valuable I can get with those slots.

thanks again for taking the time to explain things like this. much appreciated.

I hadn't thought about the whole picture quite that way, just seeing the nice bump from 200 to 375% in regen. but you are right, if your base regen is over 600% and you hit IH, does it make that much difference if you jump from 600 to 1400 or 600 to 1575? probably not, if you cannot handle what you are fighting with 1400 regen, you probably couldn't handle it with 1575, most likely laid out on the floor either way

There is a cap on health. At level 50, using dull pain you'll probably hit it. Also +regen has a diminishing return for regen scrappers.

Fitness is usefull if you plan on using a lot of endurance. I don't use it on my MA/regen though.

from what I have seen in Mids playing around with my new regen build, fitness really isn't necessary, as long as you take physical perfection in your 40s. with both quick recovery and PP 3 - slotted, my endurance use to endurance recovery numbers are better than just about any other scrapper I run.

also be careful you don't lump the comments about max regen into max health. it appears that the cap for max regen is high enough you don't have to worry about it for a regen. but max health is very easily reached. my original regen was built for max regen and max health and was way, way over the max health whenever dull pain was active. and that was without adding in even 1 of the accolades that gives + HP. my new build will pretty much cap HP with a couple of accolades and a few minor HP bonuses that are part of the sets that I am slotting mainly for other reasons besides + HP.

oh, and just as a side note to Umbral - my new build slots recharge IOs in IH, needed those extra slots elsewhere

There isn't really a go-to guide anymore that really applies thanks to all of the changes that Regen has gone through, though there is a reasonably good boilerplate:

FH: gotta take it but you don't have to slot it; 1 heal (or 3 heals if you have slots burning holes in your pockets)
Recon: take it soon, slot it up and learn to love it; give it 3 heals and 3 rech
QR: take it asap and slot it; 3 end recov
DP: another asap power; 3 rech and 3 heals
Integration: another asap power; though it's a toggle, the end cost isn't high enough to bother with; 3 heals
Resilience: completely skippable; don't take it unless you're running an IO build and want a Steadfast or Gladiator's mule power; even then, take it late when you have nothing better to get
IH: take it asap; slot it for recharge asap and healing when you have a chance; 3 rech and 3 heals
Revive: skip it; it's a wakie on a 5 minute recharge
MoG: take it asap and love it; the +def and +res are large enough that there is no point to slotting them; all the power cares about is recharge; 3 rech

Pools-
Fighting: Start working on it in your 20-30s. Boxing/Kick is useless (crappy attack, don't bother slotting it), but Tough is great (3 res, 1-2 end redux). Don't get Weave unless you're doing an IO build because defense isn't worth it unless you're packing on 15-20%.
Speed: Hasten provides recharge. Regen loves recharge. Hasten is awesome (3 rech). Super Speed is a nice trans power if you want it. The other powers are useless.
Leaping: CJ is cheap and provides mobility as well as +def, but the values are too low to bother slotting heavily (1 def). SJ is an awesome transport power. The other powers are useless to you.
Flight: Hover is like a more expensive version of CJ that lets you stay in the air. Flight is liked by some people. Air Superiority is a nice mitigation attack. Group Flight is useless.
Leadership: Maneuvers is awesome (3 def, 2 end). So is Tactics (2-3 tohit, 2-3 end). Assault is decent but not worth it thanks to Scrapper modifiers. Vengeance is similar.
Fitness: Hurdle/Swift are nice, but not worth slotting. Health provides less +regen than FH and that's not worth slotting so Health isn't really worth slotting either. Stamina is to QR as Health is to FH, however, unlike +regen, +recov is nice to load up on so, if you really want to never have endurance problems, start working through Fitness in your 30-40s. Don't slot anything except for Stam and, even then, it should only get spare slots.

If you're going into IOs, all you should really care about is recharge and defense. +Hp is useless because it is laughably easy to cap with DP and it's remarkably easy to make DP permanent (55% global +rech with both DP and Hasten slotted). +Regen is largely redundant as well: 2 hp/sec doesn't provide much comparative advantage when you're already recovering 100 hp/sec. +Recov and +End are largely redundant as well because Regen is one of those sets that doesn't have problems with endurance even before IOs. Defense makes your damage recovery powers act upon progressively smaller amounts of damage, functionally multiplying the effects and increasing your survivability more than +regen ever will. Recharge makes your click powers come back faster. Your click powers are more than half of your survivability, so recharge is always welcome, since it makes your attacks recharge faster and makes your harder to kill.

No, it doesn't. Every bit adds more +regen in exactly the same way.

if you look at it like your health is recharging, and the +regen increases the recharge rate, it can look like there are diminishing returns. But in the game, and in terms of what you'll be healing in hp/sec, there are none. Every point of +regen is more regen.

I think the proper way to phrase it would be "diminishing comparative returns". Each portion of +regen provides the same hp/sec, which provides a smaller proportionate increase to your survivability than any previous portion you've gotten.

Yes, I was not precise. When you throw a bucket of IO set bonus regen into the ocean that fast healing and integration create you won't gain a noticible amount of survivability. The return on survivabilty for the price/rarity of the IOs necessary is low compared to other scrapper secondaries.

Well, the only unenhanceable portions are Integration (50% unenhanceable, 100% enhanceable) and Instant Healing (600% unenhanceable, 200% enhanceable). Assuming a 25% uptime on IH (i.e. you're spamming it), you'd have ~800% +regen currently and an extra 190% +regen if those unenhanceable restrictions were removed.

Considering how little of the set game is really unaffected by enhancement, and how overkill IH already is a vast majority of the time, I doubt it would really accomplish much in real play. For most, IH is already unkillamode (unless you click it when you're low on health rather than when you're getting ready to face pain). Removing the unenhanceable part would just exacerbate that condition and likely make */Regen even more borked in PvP.

Personally, I think the damage recovery mechanisms on */Regen are at a nice place. I kinda wish that IH actually had some instantaneous healing portion so that it could actually be used as an "oh ****" rather than an "I'm predicting ****" button, but that's about all I'd really consider about changing any damage recovery mechanisms for */Regen.

The real thing that */Regen needs is debuff resistance, which an entirely different discussion.

That has been beaten to death with no response from any of the developers. Can a guy get a little recharge and regeneration debuff resistance here!?