politics seriously does not belong in a game that is for fun. and if anyone wants to gather data about what people want they can come to this section of the forums.
This is not a democracy. It's a monarchy, and War Witch is our queen!
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Just as a quick informal followup, the main advantage to this idea would be the continued and ongoing success of this game. I think that, a lot of the time, ParagonStudios is just fishing in the dark when they make updates. Not everybody who plays the game uses the forums, however everybody who plays the game will be a line of text away from voicing their opinion. That sounds like a wider opinion base to me. City of Heroes / Villians is a small community, so ParagonStudios can not afford to make arbitrary decisions that will alienate their customers. Games like WoW and others may be able to get away with it, but due to the small number of subscribers, the voices of the players must be heard for the game's essential survival.
The other list of changes this update would cause are wide, however the large upsides are listed below:
- Wider range of opinions
- Sneak-Peeks to future updates
- Democracy styled governance (more opinions heard)
- Better customer based anchoring (the more content you know is going to be changed, the more likely you will keep playing)
- Increase in player approval. (IE: No messups such as the PvP gimp)
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I'm not suggesting it should become any more political than it already is. The idea in itself is democracy, however the programmers are the ones making changes, not us (IE: It's still a dictatorship). The idea of polling is to give the programmers reliable data as to what the gamers want. They could outright ignore us, but at the very least they would be making informed decision.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
politics seriously does not belong in a game that is for fun. and if anyone wants to gather data about what people want they can come to this section of the forums.
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still not a good idea. this is not "our" game. it is their game. also the devs do not want to much info getting out way to early about updates because so much can change. it is always a good idea to keep people guessing for a while as to what is coming out. that is what keeps people playing. and castle "says" he has not finished with PvP and that the past changes were the start of a "new" PvP system.
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Originally Posted by Kree_A_Tivitee
Just as a quick informal followup, the main advantage to this idea would be the continued and ongoing success of this game. I think that, a lot of the time, ParagonStudios is just fishing in the dark when they make updates. Not everybody who plays the game uses the forums, however everybody who plays the game will be a line of text away from voicing their opinion. That sounds like a wider opinion base to me. City of Heroes / Villians is a small community, so ParagonStudios can not afford to make arbitrary decisions that will alienate their customers. Games like WoW and others may be able to get away with it, but due to the small number of subscribers, the voices of the players must be heard for the game's essential survival.
The other list of changes this update would cause are wide, however the large upsides are listed below: - Wider range of opinions - Sneak-Peeks to future updates - Democracy styled governance (more opinions heard) - Better customer based anchoring (the more content you know is going to be changed, the more likely you will keep playing) - Increase in player approval. (IE: No messups such as the PvP gimp) |
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I wish it was our game...|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
still not a good idea. this is not "our" game. it is their game. also the devs do not want to much info getting out way to early about updates because so much can change. it is always a good idea to keep people guessing for a while as to what is coming out. that is what keeps people playing. and castle "says" he has not finished with PvP and that the past changes were the start of a "new" PvP system.
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Regardless though, you're implying that our votes would change the fabric of the game itself. The programmers could choose to ignore every scrap of data they get. If I were them though, and I wanted to make my paychecks happy, I would utilize every scrap of data possible.
I'll grant you that keeping people guessing keeps people playing (Apple has succeeded very well with this tactic). I'll amend the head topic to deal with this.
There still should be a level of knowledge available though. If you give a kid a crayon, he'll eventually draw a masterpiece. It's the same general idea. When somebody knows something topical, they'll rip it apart and manipulate it until it's a viable idea that could be used. That being said, we shouldn't be left completely in the dark. The topical ideas would be clearly stated in red as, "Unofficial and no way indicating or suggesting any changes to the game". But the ideas given directly to people allows for inspiration and creativity.
I'd still vote for no. I'd rather the devs work on things that they believe that they can get into the game fairly quickly, rather than work on things that the players have voted on, but can't be done in a timely manner.
This entire forum exists to give the devs ideas to pull from, and a LOT of things in the game as it is right now have come from player suggestions. I'm just not sure how much a poll would help the Devs.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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The forums are open to all players. And all players are welcome to post any suggestions that they want for the game here. The Devs have been very open to accepting player feedback and ideas for what they want in the game.|
Originally Posted by Kree_A_Tivitee
Just as a quick informal followup, the main advantage to this idea would be the continued and ongoing success of this game. I think that, a lot of the time, ParagonStudios is just fishing in the dark when they make updates. Not everybody who plays the game uses the forums, however everybody who plays the game will be a line of text away from voicing their opinion. That sounds like a wider opinion base to me. City of Heroes / Villians is a small community, so ParagonStudios can not afford to make arbitrary decisions that will alienate their customers. Games like WoW and others may be able to get away with it, but due to the small number of subscribers, the voices of the players must be heard for the game's essential survival.
The other list of changes this update would cause are wide, however the large upsides are listed below: - Wider range of opinions - Sneak-Peeks to future updates - Democracy styled governance (more opinions heard) - Better customer based anchoring (the more content you know is going to be changed, the more likely you will keep playing) - Increase in player approval. (IE: No messups such as the PvP gimp) |
Also, the players might not always vote in their best interest. I'd say that the recent AE experiences are tantamount to that. Being PLed from 1-50 in a few hours might be fun for a while, but pretty quickly, you get bored and stop playing. So, people were doing something that would result in quicker boredom, and hence quicker leaving of CoH. Yet, if people were given the option, I'd bet that they'd vote to be able to do it again. That isn't really in their best interest, long-term.
They might also vote for things that the Devs could not do, then they'd be mad at the Devs for not being able to do them, despite the fact that they tried. They'd get angry at the Devs for not doing what the players wanted. Right now, you might get the same complaints, but there was no indication that the Devs were going to try to get function X into the game at all.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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From any programmer's, author's, scientist's, etc. point of view, the more voices/opinions/numbers you have for any particular subject the better. I know I (and others) ask 5 people to read my research paper before I actually submit it. I'm sure you do the same. The same's true for many fields. It gives any professional another source from which they can make a decision.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I'd still vote for no. I'd rather the devs work on things that they believe that they can get into the game fairly quickly, rather than work on things that the players have voted on, but can't be done in a timely manner.
This entire forum exists to give the devs ideas to pull from, and a LOT of things in the game as it is right now have come from player suggestions. I'm just not sure how much a poll would help the Devs. |
On other side about this idea is it gives the programmers of CoX an unbiased vote base. Yes, they use this forum for ideas, but I have to say, if you post any idea that isn't flashy or full of fun new stuff! It's going to be shot down by every single d***ed critic on this website.
A poll would make it simple. Here's the idea: Now vote on it. No bickering, no discussion. Just straight up numbers. The main point is to get opinions that aren't tainted or shot down by critics or opposers of any idea.
Also, let me stress this point again:
The poll would in no way be binding to the developers. If 95% of voters say they want farming again, the developers could easily say no and move on.
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Actually, in my former profession, I wrote EAs and EISs (environmental documents for the government), and we sent them out for comments on them, to try to make them better. WE would first send them to other government agencies, that tended to have an interest in our projects. These comments tended to be quite good. Then, we sent them out for public comment. These comments tended to be quite bad, as the public generally had little knowledge on the subject, put in opinions in place of facts, and, in general, wanted things included that we couldn't possibly include. However, some public comments were good. But when you have to slog through several hundred public comments, and only get one or two useful comments out of it, it's not quite as handy.|
Originally Posted by Kree_A_Tivitee
From any programmer's, author's, scientist's, etc. point of view, the more voices/opinions/numbers you have for any particular subject the better. I know I (and others) ask 5 people to read my research paper before I actually submit it. I'm sure you do the same. The same's true for many fields. It gives any professional another source from which they can make a decision.
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This is what is is called the signal to noise ratio. There is a reason that you might want 5 people to review your document, but you probably wouldn't want 500 to review it.
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| On other side about this idea is it gives the programmers of CoX an unbiased vote base. Yes, they use this forum for ideas, but I have to say, if you post any idea that isn't flashy or full of fun new stuff! It's going to be shot down by every single d***ed critic on this website. |
Also, there is no unbiased voter base. It just can't be done, unless you take a group of people that are completely unfamiliar with a certain subject. As this is a game, and we'd only be sending it out to people who play the game, our results would come back biased, since all of the voters would have knowledge of the subject, and had formed opinions of the game already.
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| A poll would make it simple. Here's the idea: Now vote on it. No bickering, no discussion. Just straight up numbers. The main point is to get opinions that aren't tainted or shot down by critics or opposers of any idea. |
Would you like feature X in the game?
The general results will always go for including that feature in the game. Every. Single. Time (unless it was a really bad idea). Why? Feedback bias. The people who answer the poll will be those who have the strongest feelings for whatever feature X is, either positive or negative. However, people with strong negative emotions towards it don't always respond negatively, as many just ignore it. However, those with strong positive feelings on it tend to respond. Those with no feelings on it either way tend not to respond.
So you get a situation where whenever the Devs put out a poll, they get told to include it, since that is how the 'majority' vote. However, unless you get responses from the entire CoH community voluntarily, you will have bias in your feedback to a large degree.
Now, if they put out a poll such as this:
We are planning on including one of the following four features in I21. Which would you prefer?
Feature W
Feature X
Feature Y
Feature Z
Then, you tally the votes, and they come in in this order of popularity: Y, W, Z, X. So, the Devs start working on Y. Except, as they work on it, they find that it is not feasible. Uh oh! What do they do now? Well, the work a bit on Feature W, and find that it can be done pretty easily. Except, they've basically told people that Feature Y was the most popular, and that they'd be working on it. Now, they can't, and can only give us Feature W. Well, the people aren't going to like that.
[/quote]Also, let me stress this point again:
The poll would in no way be binding to the developers. If 95% of voters say they want farming again, the developers could easily say no and move on.[/QUOTE]
If this is the case, then the polling would be seen as having little overall value. If the Devs, after the poll, can just dismiss the results for any reason, then the poll would be seen by many as inconsequential, and they're voting schemes would then trend towards the most 'fun but crazy' option, if not the one that they wanted the most.
For instance, if you knew that the Devs were going to throw out anything that they didn't really want to do, and we got this question:
Which powerset would you most like to see in I21?
A) Dark Control
B) Psychic Buff/Debuff
C) Laser Blast
D) Carp Melee
I'm betting that you'd get a lot more Carp Melee requests than you otherwise would, simply because we know that they're going to throw it out (the request, not the carp. Who throws out perfectly good carp?). The actual results from the other sets are therefore not an accurate sampling of what the players actually want, since many people voted for Carp Melee instead. So now which one do you, as a Developer, make, since your input isn't good?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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look, there is no way this should be added to the game. deal with it. as for shooting down ideas, have you read any of them? or maybe should i ask, do you know what a debate is? |
Originally Posted by Kree_A_Tivitee
From any programmer's, author's, scientist's, etc. point of view, the more voices/opinions/numbers you have for any particular subject the better. I know I (and others) ask 5 people to read my research paper before I actually submit it. I'm sure you do the same. The same's true for many fields. It gives any professional another source from which they can make a decision.
On other side about this idea is it gives the programmers of CoX an unbiased vote base. Yes, they use this forum for ideas, but I have to say, if you post any idea that isn't flashy or full of fun new stuff! It's going to be shot down by every single d***ed critic on this website. A poll would make it simple. Here's the idea: Now vote on it. No bickering, no discussion. Just straight up numbers. The main point is to get opinions that aren't tainted or shot down by critics or opposers of any idea. Also, let me stress this point again: The poll would in no way be binding to the developers. If 95% of voters say they want farming again, the developers could easily say no and move on. |
not everyone has good ideas, but when something comes along that is decent, it is met with other ideas that can flesh it out and make it better. then there are the totaly bad ideas that are comletely destroyed becuase they will harm the game. plus, i don't think people really want to be taking polls everytime they log in or everytime a dev a dev comes up with an idea. that can get really annoying and drive people from the game
Subject: Suggestion
Regarding: In-Game Content
Body: I think that ParagonStudios should integrate a polling function to the game. There should be an ingame /poll command that opens a window. This window will contain sortable active (as well as inactive) polls that will allow ParagonStudios to aggregate data as to who likes an idea, and who doesn't.The polls themselves would be posted from topics on the forums. If an idea interests the programmers, they could add it to the in-game polls. Another possible idea would be to add a form that allows player to suggest ideas. People should be able to sort between "Dev Posted Polls", and "Player Posted Polls". Before any polling, players must read a prompt and click an, "I Understand" button. The prompt would contain red, bolded text notifying all players that this polling box is, "Completely unofficial, and will in no way impact the progress or orientation of this game. This polling box is solely for the purpose of collecting numbers." The voting itself should be on a scale of 1 - 5, that way the programmers have an idea of how strongly the players want a certain feature added (or removed) to/from the game. Lastly, to keep players up to date, there should be a MOTD posted every 2 weeks that contains Hot Topics within the 'Polling Place' that alerts players about ideas that are popular --text removed--.
On the developers side, the data could easily export to an excel spreadsheet (since everybody loves those)
Example:
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Suggested Change: To add functionality to the game
that supports democracy.
Your Vote: ****o (4/5)
[Submit & Next Topic]
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People who vote would not see the actual poll results. The only people who would see the results are the programmers based at ParagonStudios.
- James
General: All edits bolded
Edit 1: Corrections made dealing with keeping players in the dark.
Edit 2: Text added amending where polls could be taken from.
Edit 3: Elaborates what is contained in polling box.