windows 7 = newer drivers?
By
Back_Blast,
Posted on: 2010-05-08 10:54 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
Well if Nvidia no longer makes drivers, odds are any that come with 7 will be no better than whatever is the latest from Nvidia. You can certainly try it but I suspect it won't make much difference.
The only other alternative I can think of is to go here: http://www.omegadrivers.net/ and try the Nvidia drivers from them. These are 'tweaked' drivers that should run on most any Nvidia hardware out there and are based on the latest official Nvidia drivers. As they are modified, they are unofficial but Omega Drivers have been around for ages and generally know what they're doing. It may not help but you can give it a try.
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Thanks for the link 
I also am in the stage of trying modified .inf files to run drivers from laptopvideo2go.com which so far havent run the game due to errors 
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Nvidia moved the base MX440 drivers to a legacy status years ago.|
Originally Posted by Sunstormer
]I use an old geforce MX440 card on my laptop. Yes I know its ancient but it still runs the game fine other than the tailor crashes at the minute.
Im also running windows XP and NVidia no longer make drivers for this card, understandable considering its age but I was wondering if I upgraded to windows 7 would there be newer drivers along with it or will it just be the same as the NVidia final release? |
Nvidia still updates the legacy drivers on an occasional basis to account for Windows API changes. Nvidia has also fixed some serious bugs (such as a 5 year old memory leak) in the legacy releases. So if this is a driver issue (and it probably is), you need to contact Nvidia.
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See I'm starting to think that possibly the bug maybe related to drivers since I downgraded and crashed even earlier than with the newest ones out, so if there were any compatible or newer drivers than that I may get it working... Or if there was a way to effectively 'trick' my computer into accepting drivers for a newer 3d card just to get past the bug this would be good too. Please do not bother telling me I should just buy a new laptop/3d card, if this was an option right now I would have done it already. The point being I should not really be forced to buy a new comp just to play a game that came with a supposedly optional add-on to graphics and I wont buy a new comp for the sake of one game, which the developers refuse to fix the bugs for and still charge to play, no matter how fun it is 
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There's a very good reason why for years neither AMD nor Nvidia gave official support for laptops. Vendors can, and did, often change chip configurations such as clock speeds, memory buses, memory amounts, and even ordered special chips with cut pixel processing pipelines or on-board disabled hardware. Vendors would also link extra display hardware, such as the LCD luminosity controls (brightness / tint / hue) to the graphics chip, components that wouldn't be in the reference driver.
So while the chip in your laptop may have been sold as a Geforce 440MX... it might not actually have BEEN a 440MX, and it might not map to a reference 440MX's device-id's and IRQ's.
Currently both Nvidia and AMD offer limited support for Laptop hardware, but you might notice that mostly full support requires a a DX10+ / OpenGL 3.0+ chip. ATi still provides a reference driver for the DX9 / OpenGL 2.0 cards running Xp, but Geforce Support pretty much starts at the Geforce 7 series.
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Your card, unfortunately, only maps to OpenGL 1.3 (It's an overclocked Geforce2 MX at best). So, getting back to your particular problem, here's another spot where you got it just, well, wrong.
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| which the developers refuse to fix the bugs for and still charge to play |
However, just because the game itself is API compliant... does not mean that the drivers are API compliant. One of the main reasons Nvidia heavily supported OpenGL from the Riva TNT up to the Geforce FX was the addition of proprietary extensions. OpenGL can support a vendors proprietary plugin for code acceleration. In some cases, Nvidia needed these proprietary extensions to run certain graphical effects and operations. The most famous of these extensions was Ultra Shadow, which allowed the OpenGL 1.5 / DX 8.1 GeforceFX keep up with Radeon 9700's in ID Software's Tech3 engine utilized in Doom3.
This is where we get back to your to your particular problem. The City of Heroes legacy engine was reportedly filled with calls to these proprietary extensions, hence the rendering errors with water effects on ATi Radeon graphics cards. Rewriting the engine to get the same type of visual / graphical effect against the ratified API standard took a lot of time and effort.
However, we know for a fact that Nvidia's drivers at the time were loaded down with various cheats and driver-shortcuts, as evidenced by the FutureMark 3DMark 2003 scandal where GeforceFX was rendering a completely different scene as forced by the driver than equivalent cards from XGI/Xabre, ATi, Matrox, Via, or 3Dlabs.
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See, what you are asking for is for the developers to BREAK, and I'm going to repeat that, BREAK the engine in order to account for major long-term issues with the driver your card uses.
You are not asking the developers to fix anything. You are asking the developers to insert intentionally badly written, vendor specific code, back into the engine. Well, sorry. I don't think Paragon Studios should re-break their engine to deal with issues introduced by a vendors bad or proprietary code.
Now, I do think Nvidia should do a code-audit and make sure their legacy driver sets are capable of running standardized API calls. I'm not entirely sure such a code-audit would help though, again, as a reference driver provided by Nvidia may, or may not, map to the chip you physically have in your possession.
Making sure the driver maps to your chip would be up to the vendor of your laptop.
Im sorry I do see what your getting at but I also dont see how you can say its nvidias fault that CoH crashes...
I get that you say they used shortcuts and 'cheats' to get stuff done, but it worked fine originally and the settings I use in game have not changed so why have the requirements changed? The game still runs fine actually playing it but the BROKEN part of the tailor, name entry screens, contacts display pictures and all linked in one BUG.
I dont see what the big issue would be with reverting the display pictures back to how they were pre i17, that would completley solve the issues and its not exactly going to make the slightest bit of difference to any other player.
If your saying it was a bug, then how come it was in the game since release right up till two weeks ago? I think you have your wires crossed here, thats not a bug, i17 was. There wouldnt be crash fixes in the last patch and the one on test if i17 wasnt responsible for any of this. Its the fact the devs rushed stuff out (probably due to marketing pushing them) why these bugs were ignored on test in the first place.
The lack of help after that is whats driving players away, and looking at the financial figures, they cant really afford to get rid of players because of bugs at this stage. Yes theres still plenty here, but a very bugged issue for a 6 year old game is not going to bring in new players until its ironed out. The problem is, by that stage the players who ARE having issues like me will be long gone.
I do realise there trying to get things sorted but it doesnt change the fact they really should have kept i17 on test until they sorted major issues such as this out in the first place. You cant release a major graphical override without checking and sorting the bugs first, thats just insane.
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He's not saying it's nvidias fault that CoH crashes... he's saying it is the fault of the manufacturer of your laptop. He's saying that even though they sold the laptop saying it was nvidia, the manufacturer of the laptop likely made some proprietary changes to it. He's also saying it is very OLD technology.|
Originally Posted by Sunstormer
Im sorry I do see what your getting at but I also dont see how you can say its nvidias fault that CoH crashes...
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| I get that you say they used shortcuts and 'cheats' to get stuff done, but it worked fine originally and the settings I use in game have not changed so why have the requirements changed? The game still runs fine actually playing it but the BROKEN part of the tailor, name entry screens, contacts display pictures and all linked in one BUG. |
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| I dont see what the big issue would be with reverting the display pictures back to how they were pre i17, that would completley solve the issues and its not exactly going to make the slightest bit of difference to any other player. |
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| If your saying it was a bug, then how come it was in the game since release right up till two weeks ago? I think you have your wires crossed here, thats not a bug, i17 was. There wouldnt be crash fixes in the last patch and the one on test if i17 wasnt responsible for any of this. Its the fact the devs rushed stuff out (probably due to marketing pushing them) why these bugs were ignored on test in the first place. |
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| The lack of help after that is whats driving players away, and looking at the financial figures, they cant really afford to get rid of players because of bugs at this stage. Yes theres still plenty here, but a very bugged issue for a 6 year old game is not going to bring in new players until its ironed out. The problem is, by that stage the players who ARE having issues like me will be long gone. |
Also - I don't remember if you've contacted tech support yet. Have you? If you have, then be patient and work with them. If you haven't, then you really should ask for help from tech support before claiming that there is no help.
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| I do realise there trying to get things sorted but it doesnt change the fact they really should have kept i17 on test until they sorted major issues such as this out in the first place. You cant release a major graphical override without checking and sorting the bugs first, thats just insane. |
Seriously - I do understand how frustrated you are. And I do understand that buying a new computer is often not an option for many of us. But the devs are trying to fix what problems they can, and tech support is there for anyone having problems. In order to improve the game, there have to be changes. It's impossible for them to know exactly what might break for those with older video hardware.
Storm
Serenity is not freedom from the storm, but peace amid the storm ...
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The crash reports I looked into saying its the same error everytime prove that it is one bug and yes I checked the file with the error, its a game file not a NVidia file.|
Originally Posted by PerfectStorm
You have no way to know that it is all one BUG. Based on what je_saist is saying above, I'm gathering that it was pretty much a bug that some of the old graphic tech was still working with the game at all. At the very least it was sort of like the way I used to in the old days fix a hole in my muffler with a tin can to cover the hole and some muffler tape to hide the tin can. It worked... but it was not even close to safe or legal. If I then beefed up my engine, that taped up muffler might have caused a big problem for me... or caused my car not to run at all.
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I understand what your trying to point out but to add to that analogy, if you beefed up your engine and didnt put your foot down to the floor then that tin can might still do the job. In reference to the game, the original settings simply shouldnt have been changed, the idea of i17 was an addition for high end computer users, not something demanding an upgrade from every single player, thats why the sliders move up one more instead of just giving you a whole remake of the entire system.
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Originally Posted by PerfectStorm
I understand that you don't really have any idea what goes into programming a massively multiplayer online role playing game - very few of us really know. However, I do some programming - and what you say above is just impossible. There is no way to put the game back to pre-I17 conditions for just some people. It WILL affect - and make more than the slightest bit of difference to probably the majority of other players.
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Originally Posted by PerfectStorm
I17 doesn't make my computer crash. And, while I certainly understand your frustration - most of the bugs you are having trouble with really didn't show up on test as far as I know. And I highly doubt that the issues were being ignored.
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Minor bugs like chat issues are annoying yes, but when your forced to look at a graphical issue such as the WW missing windows bug etc, it affects people a lot more negatively I think.
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Originally Posted by PerfectStorm
So ... what financial figures do you have access to that others do not?
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=220866
Notice the steady decline in the past few issues.
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Originally Posted by PerfectStorm
Also - I don't remember if you've contacted tech support yet. Have you? If you have, then be patient and work with them. If you haven't, then you really should ask for help from tech support before claiming that there is no help.
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Didnt expect them to fix it but it was worth a try. Also Ive heard from Castle and Arbiter Kim several times on the matter, who have said the engineers have been working on it since the day after i17 release. Whilst I am patient, two patches have gone by now with no fix which makes me wonder if I was just fobbed off.
I dont know if I already mentioned but theres 43 of us suffering from this now that I know of, 39 of which will not be renewing subs unless its sorted by time it runs out. I did expect bugs with i17, like i said earlier there is with every issue release but bugs of this magnitude still not fixed after two patches is unheard of in all the time I've played CoH.
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Originally Posted by PerfectStorm
I also don't remember if you were in closed or open beta. I participated in closed beta and read the forums and don't recall seeing the issue that you are having described there. I'm not so sure it is as prevalent as you think it is.
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Originally Posted by PerfectStorm
Seriously - I do understand how frustrated you are. And I do understand that buying a new computer is often not an option for many of us. But the devs are trying to fix what problems they can, and tech support is there for anyone having problems. In order to improve the game, there have to be changes. It's impossible for them to know exactly what might break for those with older video hardware.
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Dont get me wrong I have faith that the bug will get fixed...eventually, its just the amount of time the bugs been around for is a lot longer than any other gamebreaking bug I've ever heard of. Usually these things get seen to in the first one or two patches, we have had two (including test) and theres still no fix. Ive asked for an update of the situation from Arbiter Kim and not even had a reply. Its this thats more annoying than the actual bug.
I use an old geforce MX440 card on my laptop. Yes I know its ancient but it still runs the game fine other than the tailor crashes at the minute.
Im also running windows XP and NVidia no longer make drivers for this card, understandable considering its age but I was wondering if I upgraded to windows 7 would there be newer drivers along with it or will it just be the same as the NVidia final release?
See I'm starting to think that possibly the bug maybe related to drivers since I downgraded and crashed even earlier than with the newest ones out, so if there were any compatible or newer drivers than that I may get it working...
Or if there was a way to effectively 'trick' my computer into accepting drivers for a newer 3d card just to get past the bug this would be good too.
Please dont bother telling me I should just buy a new laptop/3d card, if this was an option right now I would have done it already. The point being I shouldnt really be forced to buy a new comp just to play a game that came with a supposedly optional addon to graphics and I wont buy a new comp for the sake of one game, which the devs refuse to fix the bugs for and still charge to play, no matter how fun it is