I don't know if it's the best per se, but Mind/Storm is certainly a solid soloist. You get high ST damage at low levels, and at high levels when Mind starts to fall behind because of the lack of pet your damage is partly made up by Lightning Storm and by Freezing Rain's debuff.
Some people will complain about Mind/Storm because it is popular to immobilize targets and use Tornado as a damage power, and Mind has no immobs or other anti-kb powers. On the other hand, the reason Mind has no immobs is because it's too full of powers that actually control enemies and stop them from attacking, so I've never minded the modest loss of damage from not being able to immob + Tornado - the ability to actually shut down enemies makes up for it nicely.
One thing that will help a lot is getting either SS or a stealth IO to stack with Steamy Mist; Mind is quite good at minimizing aggro in combination with stealth.
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Originally Posted by Verren
Hiya folks,
I am going to roll up a Mind/? troller, this char will be mostly solo then teams at 50. How does Mind/Storm solo? Will another combo with Mind work better? I definetly have my heart set on Mind, i just want the best secondary for soloing, thanks! |
I chose Radiation instead of Storm for its Solo-friendliness. Although Storm was a close second. The fact that healing is available in Radiation was the tipping point in favor of RAD.
I have never liked that Gale was forced on you. A power that works well at first, but later, either doesnt get used at all, or used under limited circumstances.
From a damage dealing standpoint, Storm probably holds better cards, but I like the survival tools in Rad better. They come sooner and work quite well even with minimal slotting.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
I don't know if it's the best per se, but Mind/Storm is certainly a solid soloist. You get high ST damage at low levels, and at high levels when Mind starts to fall behind because of the lack of pet your damage is partly made up by Lightning Storm and by Freezing Rain's debuff.
Some people will complain about Mind/Storm because it is popular to immobilize targets and use Tornado as a damage power, and Mind has no immobs or other anti-kb powers. On the other hand, the reason Mind has no immobs is because it's too full of powers that actually control enemies and stop them from attacking, so I've never minded the modest loss of damage from not being able to immob + Tornado - the ability to actually shut down enemies makes up for it nicely. One thing that will help a lot is getting either SS or a stealth IO to stack with Steamy Mist; Mind is quite good at minimizing aggro in combination with stealth. |
I was on my 39 Mind/Storm earlier this evening, soloing the Troy Hickman AE missions. This assessment is spot on. Mind has good single target damage for a controller in low levels, but that damage doen't increase in later levels like other controllers. Tornado and Lightning Storm make up for this to some degree. Plus when you play solo, the chaos powers are like added control.
I skipped Telekinesis from Mind, O2 Boost and Thunderclap from Storm. Hasten/Super Speed for travel gives you full invisibility with Steamy Mist.
Those missions are fun, filled with bad puns. Eva Braun becomes "Evil Braun" and Buddy Holly becomes "Bloody Holly."
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Honestly, Gale isn't even all that great at the beginning. It has its uses, but it's never going to be an all-the-time power.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
I chose Radiation instead of Storm for its Solo-friendliness. Although Storm was a close second. The fact that healing is available in Radiation was the tipping point in favor of RAD.
I have never liked that Gale was forced on you. A power that works well at first, but later, either doesnt get used at all, or used under limited circumstances. From a damage dealing standpoint, Storm probably holds better cards, but I like the survival tools in Rad better. They come sooner and work quite well even with minimal slotting. |
On the other hand, I'm not sure there are any powers that give you quite the kind of safezone that Hurricane does. Hurricane is a beautiful, beautiful power, Tornado is another great staying-alive tool (once you've learned how to use it as such rather than fixating on it as a damage power) and the stealth from Steamy Mist synergizes quite well with the low-aggro Mind powers (although +stealth IOs have rather deflated primary/secondary stealth powers for a lot of people).
Don't rule out Mind/Cold either. It is possibly more team orientated than Storm and won't deal as much damage early, but is still pretty solid.
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Yeah Storm is a great set. I really want to get a character to 50 one day with Storm.|
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
Honestly, Gale isn't even all that great at the beginning. It has its uses, but it's never going to be an all-the-time power.
On the other hand, I'm not sure there are any powers that give you quite the kind of safezone that Hurricane does. Hurricane is a beautiful, beautiful power, Tornado is another great staying-alive tool (once you've learned how to use it as such rather than fixating on it as a damage power) and the stealth from Steamy Mist synergizes quite well with the low-aggro Mind powers (although +stealth IOs have rather deflated primary/secondary stealth powers for a lot of people). |
I didnt mean to imply that Storm doesnt offer protection either, but when you look at the hefty endurance costs that come with that protection, you can begin to see why I lean toward Radiation. Dont want anyone thinking that Rad is "more" defensive than Storm. Its just easier on the Endurance bar and comes sooner and (in general) can be used with fewer slots invested (My opinion).
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
The beauty of Mind/Storm or Mind/Cold is that you can combine the mist powers they get with Super Speed for PvE invisibility. You can then, if you want, slot a Stealth IO to help with things that see past that (like those floating Rikti robots).
An invisible Mind Controller is just plain scary in PvE. I pretty much only team, so that's where most of my experience comes from with that. In the late game you basically can turn any team into a winner because of your unmatched ability to pepper enemies with mezzes before pulling aggro. And if you're ever worried that they'll defeat each other before the team arrives to beat them up, you can even sleep them all without pulling aggro either. Storm probably uses too much endurance to stay perpetually in Super Speed, but my Mind/Cold is easily able to stay hidden because of Heat Loss.
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I'm also playing a Mind/Cold and loving it. Strangely enough, one reason I like it is that cold as a soloer (mostly) is that it doesn't demand you take a lot of its powers early - you can concentrate on getting all the mind powers early, along with essential pools, and then you get all the great cold stuff 28-38. Cold fills the possible solo controller hole of difficulty vs. AVs/EBs who can't by mezzed by giving you fantastic debuffs, as well as the same two great powers storm gets, as well as a great endurance tool at high levels.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
The beauty of Mind/Storm or Mind/Cold is that you can combine the mist powers they get with Super Speed for PvE invisibility. You can then, if you want, slot a Stealth IO to help with things that see past that (like those floating Rikti robots).
An invisible Mind Controller is just plain scary in PvE. I pretty much only team, so that's where most of my experience comes from with that. In the late game you basically can turn any team into a winner because of your unmatched ability to pepper enemies with mezzes before pulling aggro. And if you're ever worried that they'll defeat each other before the team arrives to beat them up, you can even sleep them all without pulling aggro either. Storm probably uses too much endurance to stay perpetually in Super Speed, but my Mind/Cold is easily able to stay hidden because of Heat Loss. |
Storm would be great also - in fact the beauty of mind, and one of the reasons I love it so much, is that it has so many controls, and does enough damage, that it's self-sufficient - you really can go with whatever secondary appeals to you and not worry so much about relying on your secondary to plug a lot of holes.
True, there's no pet, but you have more than enough mass control by 32 to handle almost anything, and with Terrify and some epic pool damage powers (I like cold for the theme with the cold secondary and the additional AoEs), damage isn't too bad.
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And remember that you can slot Terrify for damage, and combined with Containment from something like Total Domination or Mass Hypnosis, you can do respectable damage. The basic Terrify duration is almost 30 seconds, which is plenty long without enhancement.
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Originally Posted by MaxLongstreet
True, there's no pet, but you have more than enough mass control by 32 to handle almost anything, and with Terrify and some epic pool damage powers (I like cold for the theme with the cold secondary and the additional AoEs), damage isn't too bad.
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I don't disagree, but this should be "two of the same great powers", not "the same two great powers". Your phrasing implies that there are only two great powers in Storm, which isn't true. |
Originally Posted by MaxLongstreet
Cold fills the possible solo controller hole of difficulty vs. AVs/EBs who can't by mezzed by giving you fantastic debuffs, as well as the same two great powers storm gets, as well as a great endurance tool at high levels.
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Storm's a great set! |
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
I don't disagree, but this should be "two of the same great powers", not "the same two great powers". Your phrasing implies that there are only two great powers in Storm, which isn't true.
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I completely agree it's got other great powers and a good argument can be made that it's better than cold, particularly solo.That being said, I do think that Freezing Rain/Sleet is the absolute crown jewel of both sets - I personally would place it among the top 5 overall powers available in the entire game.
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Actually, aren't there three? Snow Storm, Steamy Mist/Arctic something, and Freezing Rain/Sleet? Snow Storm in both sets does a nice job early of providing a kind of AoE control when many controllers, like Mind, Illusion and Grav, are lacking in AoE control.
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Originally Posted by MaxLongstreet
Cold fills the possible solo controller hole of difficulty vs. AVs/EBs who can't by mezzed by giving you fantastic debuffs, as well as the same two great powers storm gets, as well as a great endurance tool at high levels.
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LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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I don't think mind lacks AoE control early on - it gets Mass Hypnosis at 8. I'm not a huge Snowstorm fan, particularly on Controllers. You could take it if you team a lot and your team wakes everything you sleep, but even then I'd respec out when I got my other AoE's later on.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Actually, aren't there three? Snow Storm, Steamy Mist/Arctic something, and Freezing Rain/Sleet? Snow Storm in both sets does a nice job early of providing a kind of AoE control when many controllers, like Mind, Illusion and Grav, are lacking in AoE control.
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Mass Hypnosis is pretty weak as AoE control unless you are solo -- I mainly use it to set up containment for Terrify. If you don't like Snow Storm, that's fine, but it is worth mentioning. Snow Storm has its uses -- for example, in the ITF, those guys resist a lot of control powers, but are substantially affected by Slow powers -- My Ice/Storm is one of my favorite controllers on that TF. Snow Storm on the many EBs provides a huge benefit.
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Originally Posted by MaxLongstreet
I don't think mind lacks AoE control early on - it gets Mass Hypnosis at 8. I'm not a huge Snowstorm fan, particularly on Controllers. You could take it if you team a lot and your team wakes everything you sleep, but even then I'd respec out when I got my other AoE's later on.
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LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Since I solo most of the time, I come from a different perspective on this. Mass Hypnosis can be fairly useless in many groups, but solo it's the set defining power until you have Mass Confusion fully slotted out. Its duration and recharge are much better than practically any other hard AoE control (and solo, it is a hard control), so that it can be perma'd very easily, which makes soloing a breeze.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Mass Hypnosis is pretty weak as AoE control unless you are solo -- I mainly use it to set up containment for Terrify. If you don't like Snow Storm, that's fine, but it is worth mentioning. Snow Storm has its uses -- for example, in the ITF, those guys resist a lot of control powers, but are substantially affected by Slow powers -- My Ice/Storm is one of my favorite controllers on that TF. Snow Storm on the many EBs provides a huge benefit.
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As far as SS goes for EBs, it's helpful, but Cold has even better debuffs to nerf them back into the stone age - Infrigidate, Benumb and Sleet - that Snowstorm is a bit redundant in that role. And when I'm soloing an EB, I also don't want the Endurance drain of an expensive toggle either. This is a place Cold is simply better than Storm, I think - single target debuffs - though Storm more than makes up for it in other areas.
As I noted, I can see using SS at low-mid levels in groups, but since I primarily solo, I have a radically different outlook on Mass Hyp and SS.
I have a 50 /Storm and 50 /Cold and love both sets. Of the two, Cold is the one I'd want around for an AV fight.
In terms of expensive high level slotting, keep in mind that Cold's shields plus Arctic Fog plus Ice or Earth armor can all be slotted with Luck of the Gambler +Recharge for a total of +30% Recharge netted from those powers at the cost of just one slot per power. It's expensive but I managed to do it by running Task Forces and using merits. I call my Mind/Cold the "task force buster" as he specializes in stealthing, stealing glowies (e.g. the sleep and grab tactic), and debuffing end bosses.
Storm is also great, and probably the better set at soloing for most normal situations. The kind of soloing it does isn't the farming variety though. It's just compotent at completing missions.
BTW, with Mind Control one APP to look at is Primal. It doesn't have a Defense based shield for you to slot LotG in, but it does have Power Boost. Power Boost combined with Mind Control is something to behold. Looking at my lvl 50's slotted Confuse power, the duration of Power Boosted Confuse is 123.4 seconds on a same level enemy. That's TWO MINUTES that the enemy is out of the fight! And you can cast it from invisibility.. and it ignores positional defense... and. .. and... really I think I have to pass out.
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I'm envious you've got the time to run all those TFs! Alas, 7.5/LotG's are rather a distant dream for me, for now.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I have a 50 /Storm and 50 /Cold and love both sets. Of the two, Cold is the one I'd want around for an AV fight.
In terms of expensive high level slotting, keep in mind that Cold's shields plus Arctic Fog plus Ice or Earth armor can all be slotted with Luck of the Gambler +Recharge for a total of +30% Recharge netted from those powers at the cost of just one slot per power. It's expensive but I managed to do it by running Task Forces and using merits. I call my Mind/Cold the "task force buster" as he specializes in stealthing, stealing glowies (e.g. the sleep and grab tactic), and debuffing end bosses. Storm is also great, and probably the better set at soloing for most normal situations. The kind of soloing it does isn't the farming variety though. It's just compotent at completing missions. BTW, with Mind Control one APP to look at is Primal. It doesn't have a Defense based shield for you to slot LotG in, but it does have Power Boost. Power Boost combined with Mind Control is something to behold. Looking at my lvl 50's slotted Confuse power, the duration of Power Boosted Confuse is 123.4 seconds on a same level enemy. That's TWO MINUTES that the enemy is out of the fight! And you can cast it from invisibility.. and it ignores positional defense... and. .. and... really I think I have to pass out. |
123.4 second mass confusion is hilarious - I do have to wonder if it's entirely necessary. It's hard to imagine a spawn that can't be dealt with in half that time, especially when the spawn is helping out by killing itself. It would make a good Youtube video though, watching two minutes of spawn v spawn carnage, and it would certainly give time for an unhurried pee break.
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It's not strictly necessary for doing steamroller runs against easy enemies. I find it very useful against enemies that can hand you your tail though. Malta, in particular, turn into kittens when there is a competent Mind Controller around to confuse the bosses and sappers. It's not that you want to wait out the whole duration of the power so much as that you know if you hit someone with it they are out of the fight instantly and forever, and you can train your powers on someone else.|
Originally Posted by MaxLongstreet
I'm envious you've got the time to run all those TFs! Alas, 7.5/LotG's are rather a distant dream for me, for now.
123.4 second mass confusion is hilarious - I do have to wonder if it's entirely necessary. It's hard to imagine a spawn that can't be dealt with in half that time, especially when the spawn is helping out by killing itself. It would make a good Youtube video though, watching two minutes of spawn v spawn carnage, and it would certainly give time for an unhurried pee break. |
EDIT: BTW, the duration of my IO'ed characters' PB'ed Mass Confusion is actually about 112 seconds, not 123 (that's the duration of the single target Confuse). While I'm at it, might as well report the other mezz durations:
Mass Hyp: 69 seconds
Dominate: 66 seconds (same for all Controllers)
Total Domination: 47 seconds (same for all Controllers)
Also, if PB affects the duration of the Contagious Confusion proc, that part lasts 37.5 seconds according to Mids.
Hiya folks,
I am going to roll up a Mind/? troller, this char will be mostly solo then teams at 50. How does Mind/Storm solo? Will another combo with Mind work better?
I definetly have my heart set on Mind, i just want the best secondary for soloing, thanks!