New Tanker Inherent

So what is it I'm doing when I'm standing on the globe of Atlas, getting pounded by Statesman, Back Alley Brawler, and Citadel while Positron, Numina, and Sister Psyche target me to the exclusion of my allies? As for where my ranged attacks are coming from? Patron Pool, and temp powers are enough, and when they're not I run over and smack someone in the face.


If taking all the aggro and holding the attention of the entire freedom phalanx isn't tanking... then what is it?

Taunt makes getting aggro easier, yes... But it's really not required.

A 'perfect' tank is hilarious overkill in this game. You're talking about what passes for tanking in other games? City of Heroes allows for incredibly half-***** tanking to keep the party alive. I should know: I use a Shield/SS tank (without taunt) who does her job just fine.

The reason tanks don't feel they're pulling their weight is because, well... Usually they're just plain overkill. One tank on a team is a good idea. Two is okay. Three is a waste. I admit my brute hasn't done a master run of LRSF, but I've done plenty of ITFs, LRSFs, LGTFs, and every Strike Force in the game, usually with my brute as the main "Tank." I would really like you to tell me what tanking is, if tanking is not "taking all the aggro and living to laugh about it" because you seem to think it's a lot harder than it is.

Yet as soon as they attack they become a target because they're tanks. Like I said before, the only potential "I don't want threat" screwery that would occur would be damage Tankers asking for another Tanker to be brought on team to take agg from them, which likely wouldn't happen because the Tanker is going to steal agg from them by simply dealing more damage.

Threat and damage are intimately related. If you get bonus damage for not having threat, you're going to get threat eventually if you keep dealing damage. Hell, the only way you can outthreat a Tanker as it stands is to outclass both their taunt aura and their damage, which only ever happens with Brutes (that have full powered taunt auras and punchvoke anyway) and Shield Scrappers (because AAO is friggin' crazy).

Keep in mind, you're also saying this is a bad idea because there are a few outlier idiots that don't want to do their jobs. These are the same people that take all of their attacks and none of their shields on their Tankers because they want to deal damage, even though they'd probably be happier (and more productive) simply rolling Scrappers.

People are idiots and will continue to be idiots. Acting as if that's a reason not to do something that will benefit the AT as a whole because the idiots will just be idiots about it is idiotic, in and of itself. A change that allows Tankers to increase their damage against targets that are not currently targeting them will give the AT a good deal more functionality and limit their redundancy no matter how the idiots deal with it. If a Tanker refuses to do his job just because he wants a little bit of extra damage (or, hell, if he refuses to jump in because he doesn't want to take the alpha), I can find another that's not an idiot. Maybe the idiot tank will learn that way.

I thought you meant a system that already does this

This sounds plausible. The /assist command (I think it was called that) basically does the same - takes your target's target and makes it into your current target. No-one ever uses it, but it exists. It's also possible to target through ENEMIES, as powers will skip your target if they can't affect it. This means that trying to heal an enemy will actually heal the ally that enemy is currently targeting.

Currently, we (as players) actually have a way to check a target's target, in sort of a roundabout way. Mastermind players can order their henchmen to /petsay $target, which causes the henchman to either call out what it has targeted or return $target if it has nothing. This is done via chat, but it should be safe to assume that this information can be dumped back into the system, instead of being dumped into the Pets channel, and it should then be possible to compare that to the Tanker. I'm not sure how the system itself identifies target, but I doubt it's by name. However it does this, it should be possible to capture this and boost damage if the Tanker's target's target is different from the Tanker's own identifier. I hope that whatever this call returns when no target is active is something that no player can ever have assigned as his identifier, so technically speaking, this should work both with a different target and no target at all.

Obviously, Standard Code Rant applies and I've no idea how the system is actually rigged. I'm also positive a new subsystem will have to be integrated into the powers system specifically for this and this alone, and what effect this will have on server load (server, not connection) I can't say, but if the system can check which toggle you have active and then alter the chances of power components to fire based on that, I can't say this particular issue is out of the question.

But again, I have to ask - how do you handle the problem of two Tankers swapping trains to ensure they're always fighting against things not aggroed on them?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

You let them have their bonus, and congratulate them on proper coordination and consistent flanking maneuvers. It wouldn't exactly be easy or tanks to do this, and they'd probably lose more time chasing each others' targets than they'd make up for with the bonus damage. If they can pull it off with the system as described, more power to them.