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Quicksand provides a 25% Defense debuff, which stacks with the 20% from many of the other Earth powers to result in a huge amount of defense debuff. You can slot it for Slow and Recharge, but not more Defense Debuff. It seems to me that there are a lot of other powers in the game that have some amount of Defense Debuff but can't be slotted for it -- like many of the Rad Blast powers.|
Originally Posted by hewhorocks
Has there ever been an explaination offered on why quicksand can be slotted for -def? With such a high base value it seems it was clearly intended to be a primary feature of the power. If the concen is that its base value was too high to be enhancable I'm sure there would be little complaint if the base was dropped 5% or 10% and was made enhanceable. I'd love a little more variety in set slotting in it.
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The decisions on types of enhancements for Quicksand were made long before IOs, so the types of sets it takes were not a consideration. I'm pretty happy with the huge amount of Defense Debuff in the power, and see no reason to change it. I have too many other places to spend my slots -- two recharge and maybe a slow are enough for Quicksand. I suspect that since quite a few foes use Quicksand, too (CoT and Tuatha), that it will not see any changes.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
(sorry for the necro post)
I'm looking at the issue from a set bonus perspective. When looking at it from an end-game build each power with limited set choices can really impact what can (and cant) be done in terms of those bonuses.
Quicksand is great out of the box and I might argue there is no need to enhance the slow portion of the power at all.
In high end 50 builds how much of a role is having fewer set options playing in terms of effectiveness for any specific task? This is a question that really may come to the fore with a blaster primary (fotm but still) that has a very popular power without slotting options.
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Your question is a bit confusing. I'm not quite sure what you are asking. |
Originally Posted by hewhorocks
(sorry for the necro post)
I'm looking at the issue from a set bonus perspective. When looking at it from an end-game build each power with limited set choices can really impact what can (and cant) be done in terms of those bonuses. Quicksand is great out of the box and I might argue there is no need to enhance the slow portion of the power at all. In high end 50 builds how much of a role is having fewer set options playing in terms of effectiveness for any specific task? This is a question that really may come to the fore with a blaster primary (fotm but still) that has a very popular power without slotting options. |
In some ways, it is nice having a power like Quicksand that is very effective with little to no slotting, as it frees up slots for other powers where set bonuses are more important. With enough Global Recharge, you can get by with just a single Rech in Quicksand, allowing you to use those slots somewhere else. I view */Rad's Lingering Radiation the same way -- with enough global Recharge, I can get by with just the default slot, freeing up slots for other powers. At level 50, I generally wish I had more slots more than I wish I had more powers.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Would it be nice to allow some more options for procs or other slotting... to be honest I rarely have quicksand as a power past lvl 20 or so.
After you have a character slotted, how much -Def is really needed? There are so few times that I have anything less than a 95% chance to hit, it just doesn't seem worth it for a slow patch. I miss Ice's -Slow when I play an Earth troller.
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True that. I have a level 50 Earth/Cold troller where there are too many great powers to choose from. In the end I had to choose from Quicksand and Earthquake. Quicksand got the boot since the -def was being duplicated in other powers and I could slot for -ToHit and -Def in Earthquake (Achilles -Res proc). I felt since there was already a good amount of -Def with Earth and Cold combined, it seemd like the -ToHit was more important. But that decision was made on my play style. Ymmv.|
Originally Posted by Torrynt
Would it be nice to allow some more options for procs or other slotting... to be honest I rarely have quicksand as a power past lvl 20 or so.
After you have a character slotted, how much -Def is really needed? There are so few times that I have anything less than a 95% chance to hit, it just doesn't seem worth it for a slow patch. I miss Ice's -Slow when I play an Earth troller. |
But like it was said previously, it sure is nice to come across a good power that requires minimal slotting.
Phantom Flight / Villainous Llewthorous
@TFury
@T.Fury
I like when you dont have to slot power; however I prefer having some choice in ways to slot them. I found quicksand very useful (and a every mob power) previous to Earthquake and during Earthquake's downtime. However once I hit 32 or so Quicksand sat in the tray neglected. When Respec time came around I found myself reexamining power selections and Quicksand didnt seem to have a role in mid and high level content. If it gave me the oppurtunity to collect some worthwhile set bonuses it would make keeping a power that defined my low-level career in the build much easier.
Look at it as an opportunity to free up slots to get set bonuses in other powers. You know, that power that's fine with 5 slots but you'd love that 6th slot bonus. Personally I like 1-3 powers that I don't have to worry about.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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I consider Quicksand a power that I would never skip. I use it underneath every AoE control power I have both as backup control and for its huge defense debuff. I never have to worry about ToHit Debuffs. My AoE powers with -20% accuracy (Stalagmites and Stone Cages) and the powers that don't take accuracy but still have to hit (Volcanic Gasses) hit more reliably with Quicksand, and when they miss, the foe is still caught.|
Originally Posted by Torrynt
Would it be nice to allow some more options for procs or other slotting... to be honest I rarely have quicksand as a power past lvl 20 or so.
After you have a character slotted, how much -Def is really needed? There are so few times that I have anything less than a 95% chance to hit, it just doesn't seem worth it for a slow patch. I miss Ice's -Slow when I play an Earth troller. |
And it recharges so quickly that I can use it as a barrier to prevent another spawn from coming in. I use it when pulling as a trap. I sometimes use Quicksand instead of Stone Cages when I know that I might be using Earthquake (or Freezing Rain on my Earth/Storm) to keep foes from leaving the area of effect.
Additionally, I know that I can slot some powers with less accuracy because I use Quicksand so often. And it does all that with just one or two Recharge IOs.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Certainly there is some benefit in the power in being a slow patch. However, if you have IOed out your character, the Def Debuff is rarely needed. I don't bother to slot nearly anything more than about 40-60% acc bonus... so I'm already not slotting for acc and still capping at 95% hit chance.
Considering that I get +6% from kismet and then another +30-70% from acc bonuses from sets add that to the def debuffs that you are already laying down in powers that have far more control, and I don't see a lot of need for it.
Of course, everyone plays their own style, but I've gone hundreds/thousands of missions and never once thought "I wish I had Quicksand." That to me is the mark of a skippable power. Secondary might play some into it. My Earth is a Stormie, so I have two flop patches as well as multiple stuns. I want everyone locked down with cages and stunned, so quicksand gets the boot.
P.S. I'm not trying to troll on Local, I think he's terrific in terms of helping people and presenting information. You will not go wrong taking his advice. This is nothing more than another POV and how I went about things and my perspectives on this power.
Has there ever been an explaination offered on why quicksand can be slotted for -def? With such a high base value it seems it was clearly intended to be a primary feature of the power. If the concen is that its base value was too high to be enhancable I'm sure there would be little complaint if the base was dropped 5% or 10% and was made enhanceable. I'd love a little more variety in set slotting in it.