I have no doubts, this tank WILL survive (Dark/fire)
By
ClawsandEffect,
Posted on: 2010-01-26 14:39 in Tankers
Hey, you edited this--the build I looked over at work was slightly different. No biggie, just confused me at first.
Yep, this should be plenty sturdy, and you should have no problems with holding aggro with both DS and Op Gloom running.
A few things I'd recommend:
You're just below the soft cap for S/L, and it would be easy enough to pass it by replacing the Impervs in MC with another set of Reactive Armor. Also, whether you use RAs or stick with Impervs, you really don't need more than 4 slots. The amount of end you save by slotting a low-end toggle for 68% end red instead of 40% is tiny. So drop the End and End/Rchg IOs, and use those slots elsewhere. Similarly, you don't need the Titanium Coating Res/End in DE; replace it with a common resist IO and call it done.
EDIT: Urrgh! Posted before I was done.
The biggest problems I see are that Death Shroud is underslotted for end reduction, and all of the attacks slotted with Kinetic Combat are underslotted for damage. You'll have to give up the Cleaving Blow E/NE bonus, but I strongly recommend that you replace them with either Multi Strike or Scirocco's Dervish, either of which would allow you to slot more end reduction. (At least 60% is good.)
Instead of a common Accuracy IO, I suggest that you use either a CI Acc/Dam/End or a Mako's Acc/Dam/End/Rchg as the 5th slot for those KC sets. Combustion could also use at least one more slot, so consider using the slot or slots freed up from Murky for that purpose.
Lastly, you currently only have mag 4 KB protection, which IMO really isn't enough for a tank. You could also use one of those free slots to put a Karma -KB IO in CJ. Something to think about, anyway.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Quote:
Yeah, I mentioned the edit in the OP, and I just made a second edit. I changed the End/Res to the Res from Impervium for another bonus, and added a slot that I saved from Murky for the Psionic resist from Impervium for the +max end.|
Originally Posted by Finduilas
Hey, you edited this--the build I looked over at work was slightly different. No biggie, just confused me at first.
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Thank you for the suggestions, I'm 0.1% shy of the E/N softcap and I'm over the S/L now. I'm a lot happier with it, thank you!
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Salt Crystals and quicksand are necessities for the -def with this build. For AVs, it's not jack of all trade enough.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Namely, I'd like it to hold aggro. I don't care what kind of damage output I have so long as I can get and keep the attention of the enemies.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Alright, I changed the two Gift of the Ancients sets into LotG sets. I didn't really lose the 1.8% max end bonuses, because I had seven of them. What this gained me was accuracy bonuses. Now I'm comfortable changing the generic acc IOs in the attacks to acc/dam/end.
On to the important numbers: 45.5% S/L defense. 44.9% E/N defense. 12 KB protection. 1.65 end/sec gain with all toggles on, 1.85 if you calculate the proc. My "hole" is now fire/cold damage, which I have 47% resist to and only 21.2% defense. Both melee and ranged defense is higher than that, so my only real worry is fire/cold AoE damage. Even then, I've still got dark regen and the PBAoE stun.
New build:
Code:
What do you think?| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1407;711;1422;HEX;| |78DAA554DB4E1351143DEDB494DE6FF4CAAD40A1146C81372F0FC60826189A54203| |CA9758011269429992946DEFC009FD4C427BF431103C6CF30FE00DE7EA1EEBDD7D0| |C4F8E8A4B3D6B9AC7D397BF669E3F97244A917B7952772B7AD3B4E6B53B70E0CDBD| |FD0F7CC9DD846E7B8BD7D6C5BA50DDDDA75024AA902F65BCBC653C3728CFAB26E1F| |B4EED8871D3BEFEE348CB661D4EF99867D827172D5DA376CC3EAD6AF069166A7D32| |649D7321C27EA4EF6F6BBA6B587AD35433FA2495226ABD633D331B7CDB6D93D49AD| |1C993BF515DDEEEEB71ABAD3A52079CAAA4AEF872081875ED5F3AB3C0D469537079| |A25AAA87C1954112A55859221E53E3D9F6A124DAAC803A1D8BA506243686657B13C| |15726390DC03790CF204E429C8CB909F524E1A72F2696312D0370E9A14CA4E085D4| |3321F49EE875CF3433E00F9007459589D912E2079F4FC81ACC64B833950462894D4| |F8E0A198502425E4A7EF17847715AC497E9FC851D80D184E88EF545A68680894110| |A9069143A4FF4BE2C4D6D09BD270F71B7EAF15F5E8E53FC2D34F2136449A4B14350| |5BC843FE9228A39644196750C61994B1B6293448BA34BC7BD3AFBC6C5A7C2D547A2| |B94A6EF9181236FE6BB041C431613089F250F3937F3DC37B199F82A744E9917DC72| |148A92568EBC0DC39B7F186EA67E80E0AD8C5394718AB90EAC02BC8510A37F85B8A| |010E36E76E397E2A1047F35D4281FE253A23F2651870AEA50411D2A68A72ADAA940| |F269573E0D7915F22AE47390CF3D11F91BFAECB36E95673FA3D1BE802E846AE7429| |7F40F300F9D9A9F17538DCE54771BA38E4E5C400B2EA00517A6D0C6A45B74758B68| |A02534D0121A68090D34E2EB5F33FAD1A3D6FE5969FAFA774B7964A5EAEB5FE9FF7| |A4E2357B182EB7CDF37199A7C95B778F490E1114F1FF348E7D136C30E4F7B677DEB| |F8754EE806C34D865B0C2F591408138419220C518618439C21C19066C8321419DE3| |1F4FE00E8F7F890| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Thanks again for your time.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Well, F/C/AoE damage that doesn't have a S/L/E/NE component, so IMO that's a relatively small worry given how uncommon F/C damage is. And you've got some resists and Dark Regen to compensate.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
On to the important numbers: 45.5% S/L defense. 44.9% E/N defense. 12 KB protection. 1.65 end/sec gain with all toggles on, 1.85 if you calculate the proc. My "hole" is now fire/cold damage, which I have 47% resist to and only 21.2% defense. Both melee and ranged defense is higher than that, so my only real worry is fire/cold AoE damage. Even then, I've still got dark regen and the PBAoE stun.
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I know you want to keep that soft-capped E/NE defense, but I'd still consider the low end red in Death Shroud to be a problem, especially given that Dark Regen--the other big end-eater in the set--is only marginally slotted with enough end reduction. If you run into end problems later, the first thing I recommend is adjusting your DS slotting to include more end red.
The Imperv Psi resist IO in MC seems pointless to me; you already have over 80% resist to Psi, an extremely rare damage type! Combustion is a important component of FM, and it's currently woefully underslotted, especially for damage and end reduction. Using that 5th slot in MC to more fully slot Combustion will do far more for you than another 3% Psi resist. Personally, I'd also pull the fifth lot from Scorch and leave it slightly underslotted to provide a fifth slot to Combustion, I think it will benefit you more there.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Quote:
Exactly my thoughts. I shouldn't have anything to worry about from F/C damage. In fact, I can't think of any F/C/AoE attacks that don't have S/L components.|
Originally Posted by Finduilas
Well, F/C/AoE damage that doesn't have a S/L/E/NE component, so IMO that's a relatively small worry given how uncommon F/C damage is. And you've got some resists and Dark Regen to compensate.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
I know you want to keep that soft-capped E/NE defense, but I'd still consider the low end red in Death Shroud to be a problem, especially given that Dark Regen--the other big end-eater in the set--is only marginally slotted with enough end reduction. If you run into end problems later, the first thing I recommend is adjusting your DS slotting to include more end red.
The Imperv Psi resist IO in MC seems pointless to me; you already have over 80% resist to Psi, an extremely rare damage type! Combustion is a important component of FM, and it's currently woefully underslotted, especially for damage and end reduction. Using that 5th slot in MC to more fully slot Combustion will do far more for you than another 3% Psi resist. Personally, I'd also pull the fifth lot from Scorch and leave it slightly underslotted to provide a fifth slot to Combustion, I think it will benefit you more there. |
The scorch suggestion I like. It will probably end up as a non-used attack. And that slot could be used to better effect on combustion for sure. The way I have it now is assuming that I won't use combustion at all, but it's likely better to not use scorch.
Thanks to the ToE proc, I have already seen Dark Regen fill both of my bars, and I'm only level 15! Once I do get endurance reduction into it, I'm fair certain I won't have problems. Some of my biggest end hogs are tough/weave. In the worst case scenario, I think I can shut off tough and rely on my softcap and remaining resist to keep me alive.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
The 4 slots of Imperv in Dark Embrace certainly do give you a nice +end bonus, but I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the single Imperv Armor Psi resist IO in Murky Cloud, which does absolutely nothing, bonus-wise, other than give you the 3% Psi resist. *That* is the one I think you should move and use to better slot Combustion.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
The Imperv Psi resist is more there for the set bonus it gives me, namely 2.25% max end. Higher maximum endurance equates to more recovery. Yeah, I don't need more psi resist, but nothing else from the set was going to benefit me. Doing the math, I gain as much endurance recovery out of the set bonus as would I lose endurance consumption by slotting DS better.
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My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Quote:
*facepalm*|
Originally Posted by Finduilas
The 4 slots of Imperv in Dark Embrace certainly do give you a nice +end bonus, but I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the single Imperv Armor Psi resist IO in Murky Cloud, which does absolutely nothing, bonus-wise, other than give you the 3% Psi resist. *That* is the one I think you should move and use to better slot Combustion.
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Don't worry, that facepalm is directed at me. I feel like a moron.
Thanks for pointing it out.
I think it's just a relic of having the full Imperv set there to begin with. I never removed it because I couldn't think of a better place at the time, and then forgot about it.
I guess with 80% Psi resist and the end drain resist, I'll still be able to laugh at carnies and psi clocks.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Alright, semi-final iteration here. I honestly don't see any room for improvements, but I'm still open to suggestion.
It's still pretty heavy on the endurance, but I'm not worried. A big end hog is tough, and I can probably leave that off unless I'm fighting really high level Cimerorans. The softcap should be enough mitigation from S/L. Also, I'm not planning to be the team's DPS, so if endurance starts to dwindle, I'll just cycle the couple of AoE attacks to maintain aggro. With Murky Cloud, I doubt I'll have to worry about sappers.
Code:
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
I been crossing fingers hoping that GR will change that.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Exactly my thoughts. I shouldn't have anything to worry about from F/C damage. In fact, I can't think of any F/C/AoE attacks that don't have S/L components.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
Just because an attack deals s/l damage doesn't guarantee that it will be typed as such. (Non-positional psi demonstrates this.) In this case, Fireball is only flagged as Fire / AoE, despite having a smashing component.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I can't think of any F/C/AoE attacks that don't have S/L components.
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--edit--
Quote:
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
I been crossing fingers hoping that GR will change that.
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It's kind of why I'm hesitating to create new builds right now. I just feel that at any moment they could release information that makes them obsolete. I'd rather not spend a lot of inf/merits on a new project to have them invalidated in a short period of time.
Quote:
I am aware of how attacks are typed. The point is, I couldn't think of anything that was typed F/C and AoE but not S/L.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Just because an attack deals s/l damage doesn't guarantee that it will be typed as such. (Non-positional psi demonstrates this.) In this case, Fireball is only flagged as Fire / AoE, despite having a smashing component.
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Fireball is one. Is there anything else?
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Ahh, sorry, I meant no offense saying how attacks were typed. Some people honestly don't know, so I'd rather be sure. Besides, you never know who may be reading / learning from a thread.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I am aware of how attacks are typed. The point is, I couldn't think of anything that was typed F/C and AoE but not S/L.
Fireball is one. Is there anything else? |
I can't check right now from work (I saw a thread in the general section last week saying that CoD had been may have been compromised (link 1, link 2), so I don't dare go there from work at the moment), but some attacks I'd check are Fire Breath (Fire Manipulation), Inferno, Ice Storm, Blizzard, Frostbite, Frost Breath, Frost (probably melee), Ice Sword Circle (probably melee), and Frozen Aura (probably melee). Some other unique powers may also be included in that list such as Eochai (his Footstomp is pure fire damage, not sure on the position) and Winter Lord / Lord Winter (their Footstomps are pure cold damage too, iirc, still unsure on positional flagging).
I'm not arguing that facing against these attacks in PvE is rare, mind you.
After hearing your chat about this in the VU channel, I thought I'd check this out.
With the below build, s/l is at 44.9, but in return is a boost to f/c to 31.8% and, most imporantly... it includes Taunt (so your teammates WILL survive too). Additionally it includes 2 other ranged attacks so you can have no problem maintaining ranged aggro.
Code:
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Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Quote:
I appreciate the suggestions, but there's a few things that I don't like about the build. I don't think KC alone is enough accuracy, and even with the two global acc bonuses, I don't have capped accuracy on more than +1s. Accuracy is more important to me than damage, especially in this case because of gauntlet.|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
After hearing your chat about this in the VU channel, I thought I'd check this out.
With the below build, s/l is at 44.9, but in return is a boost to f/c to 31.8% and, most imporantly... it includes Taunt (so your teammates WILL survive too). Additionally it includes 2 other ranged attacks so you can have no problem maintaining ranged aggro. |
Second, the Earth Mastery powers are there for theme.
Finally, I'd rather drop Oppressive Gloom than Soul Transfer. Crap happens, and when it does, I think Dark Armor has the best self rez ability for a tank, in that it saves your teammates by stunning everything that just lost your aggro. I've also heard that OG is terrible for aggro management, and it makes sense. Stunned enemies that walk out of range could easily lose aggro.
I do like the inclusion of taunt, so I'm working something up to put it in. I also want to move the order of powers around to make exemplaring a bit easier. This hasn't been the most enjoyable ride to level 22. I'll post when I figure it out.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Here it is. At this point, I'm 99% certain that this is the final build.
Taunt, softcap to S/L/E/N, no stun/fear aura, themed epic powers, and can exemp pretty well. My biggest hole is now fire/cold AoE damage, which isn't particularly common in PvE. Even so, I've got 20% defense to it, and 47% resist.
Random question... Does quicksand generate aggro?
Code:
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I've never used Quicksand, but as a ranged immob, it seems doubtful that it would be very efficient at generating aggro. Controlling it, sure, but since they'd likely be immobed out of melee (and DR) range, I'm not sure how helpful it would be.
And for the record, although I know players do it, I hate to see DA characters without either Op Gloom or CoF. Seems wrong, somehow.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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Should work nicely if you drop it right at your feet after gathering a spawn. They aren't going anywhere, so Death Shroud will keep ticking away at them. IIRC it's a area placement power like Ice Slick or Tar Patch, which means you can put it anywhere you want it, including right where you're standing. |
Originally Posted by Finduilas
I've never used Quicksand, but as a ranged immob, it seems doubtful that it would be very efficient at generating aggro. Controlling it, sure, but since they'd likely be immobed out of melee (and DR) range, I'm not sure how helpful it would be.
And for the record, although I know players do it, I hate to see DA characters without either Op Gloom or CoF. Seems wrong, somehow. |
Sometimes it isn't so much the power itself getting/holding agro as it is making it easier for your other powers to do so.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Speaking as a part time Earth Controller, Quicksand isn't so much about the slow, but the -def. I wouldn't even drop it until I had a nice gathering around me, and then they're likely not moving much afterwards.
To the OP, that's a hell of a job getting your E/N def almost capped. My dark tank is well near invincible w/just the S/L capped, but I'll have to re-examine him to see if I can get the E/N portion higher, tho frankly not at the expense of Fireball in my epic.
One thing I will say about your build--IMO, Dark Regen is overslotted for heal & acc. Since you're largely firing into a crowd, I rarely worry about Acc, and let's face it, you go from 0-to-full w/2 or 3 mobs, so I don't worry about the heal aspect much either. I like to frankenslot it to max the rech & end redux w/decent acc & some heal component (and the +end proc, of course), so hitting 3 mobs will get me to full instead of 2, but it'd be up 3 sec faster, and cost less end. I don't think the set bonuses you currently have in there are critical to your build, and my own frankenslotting gets the 2-bonus from Theft & Numina's so get some nice regen #s out of it.
Oh, one last quibble, I think I'd rather drop QS for Hasten, esp if you can spare 1 extra slot from somewhere else (like the Steadfast -KB in Dark Embrace, since you have the BotZs). When it's up, we're talking about dropping almost a full 7 sec from Dark Regen's recharge time, not to mention other goodies like FSC.
Otherwise, kudos on your build.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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This is a little bit what I was thinking, but mostly quicksand is a thematic addition. Get them clumped around me and don't let them get away. The -defense would only be good against high level opponents, but unfortunately, at that level they'd be highly resisting it anyway.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
Speaking as a part time Earth Controller, Quicksand isn't so much about the slow, but the -def. I wouldn't even drop it until I had a nice gathering around me, and then they're likely not moving much afterwards.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
To the OP, that's a hell of a job getting your E/N def almost capped. My dark tank is well near invincible w/just the S/L capped, but I'll have to re-examine him to see if I can get the E/N portion higher, tho frankly not at the expense of Fireball in my epic.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
One thing I will say about your build--IMO, Dark Regen is overslotted for heal & acc. Since you're largely firing into a crowd, I rarely worry about Acc, and let's face it, you go from 0-to-full w/2 or 3 mobs, so I don't worry about the heal aspect much either. I like to frankenslot it to max the rech & end redux w/decent acc & some heal component (and the +end proc, of course), so hitting 3 mobs will get me to full instead of 2, but it'd be up 3 sec faster, and cost less end. I don't think the set bonuses you currently have in there are critical to your build, and my own frankenslotting gets the 2-bonus from Theft & Numina's so get some nice regen #s out of it.
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I really like the set bonuses. The 1.8% max end may not seem all that great, but every bit of max end also increases recovery, as well as the effectiveness of every other recovery bonus I have. We all know Dark Armor is manageable for sure, but not easy on the endurance bar. I'd like to not have to worry. More importantly, though, was the accuracy bonus from Nictus. This tank is really survivable, and should be able to withstand +3s to +4s. The problem then becomes accuracy, and my attacks with Kinetic Combat aren't very accurate against high level foes. The three accuracy bonuses in the build are very important.
The reason I focus heavily on enhancing accuracy and heal is because I don't see myself having problems with crowds at all. I imagine my problem would be a single tough target that I don't have a lot of fuel for, namely an AV after his minions are killed off. In that case, I need the heal to be reliable and strong. Every time I need the heal, I want to be sure it's going to hit.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
Oh, one last quibble, I think I'd rather drop QS for Hasten, esp if you can spare 1 extra slot from somewhere else (like the Steadfast -KB in Dark Embrace, since you have the BotZs). When it's up, we're talking about dropping almost a full 7 sec from Dark Regen's recharge time, not to mention other goodies like FSC.
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Additionally, knockback protection. As I understand it, there's very few cases where 8 points will protect what 4 won't. Most of the time, if it is over 4 points of KB, you need 12 to stop it.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
Otherwise, kudos on your build.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Ah-HA! I've done it. This... is complete. Notice that all the enhancements are a maximum level of 40. I re-arranged the powers so that I keep all the important ones for softcapping as low level as I can.
Hell, I could probably change some of the sets to a level of 38 so I can go all the way to 35 with the softcap on defense. What I'd need it for, I have no idea.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
But will it do anything else well?
Namely, I'd like it to hold aggro. I don't care what kind of damage output I have so long as I can get and keep the attention of the enemies.
This is my first tanker, so there's probably some obvious holes that I'm completely oblivious to.
EDIT: I changed some things around, and now it's only at 44.3% S/L, but the E/N is now 43.7% to plug the energy hole. Take a look, tell me what you think.
EDIT2: Thanks to Finduilas' suggestions, I'm at the softcap for S/L/E/N.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.