The way the math works out, it's actually more effective to use a damage proc in freezing rain instead of the -res proc in most situations.
The -res proc is set to not stack from the same caster. I know that some pets are able to sidestep this because they're each treated as a seperate source for the debuff, but I don't think tornado is capable of doing this. Also, I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that procs don't work properly in tornado and they will only have a chance to activate once.
Drop it in freezing rain. While the numbers may work out in favor of damage procs, that only considers solo play. You will make yourself a more valuable team-player if you slot the AH -res proc.
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That's not the case. I'll show the math.|
Originally Posted by Silit
While the numbers may work out in favor of damage procs, that only considers solo play.
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At level 50, a damage proc does about 72 damage. In order for the achilles' heel proc to contribute 72 points of damage, the enemy it's on has to take 360 points of damage in the span of about 10 seconds. If your team is capable of dishing out that kind of damage with area attacks, the enemies are going to be dropping very quickly either way. Furthermore, a level 50 minion has 430 hit points. 360+72=432. That means that against even level minions, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the achilles' heel proc to outperform a damage proc.
The achilles' heel proc is best placed in single target powers that recharge quickly, so that the debuff can be easily placed on bosses and AVs and kept on them constantly. In a power like freezing rain, assuming that you have its recharge at 30 seconds, the debuff will only be active on an AV about 6.7% of the time.
That math seems wrong.
The debuff lasts 10 seconds. FR can be fired in 30 seconds or sometimes less. With the number of ticks in FR it seems likely that it's going to fire on almost every casting. That should be close to 30% uptime.
Now assume that I care far more about the procs performance against an AV than I care about minions. I can Easily imagine my team doing more than 72 damage in 10 seconds against an AV. Furthermore, 72 damage is slightly less than Charged Bolts which I'm throwing pretty frequently and which my Voltaic Sentinel is throwing constantly too. You're telling me that an occasional Extra Charged Bolt is going to outdo my whole team's (including Tornado and Lightning Storm and VS) benefit from an additional 20% resistance (stacked with FR's 35%)? Sounds wrong.
If your uptime number is even close to right though, I should strongly consider having a second proc in Tornado (unless it is bugged as you suggested).
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Actually, looking over it, my math is wrong, but not in the way you pointed out. FR doesn't have a chance to proc with every tic. If it did, then a single damage proc would do over 1,000 damage. The way it actually works is that there's a chance to proc when the power first goes off, and then every ten seconds afterwards until the rain ends. Since the achilles' heel debuff actually lasts slightly more than 10 seconds, I can't tell what the actual damage increase would be unless someone knows whether achilles' heel is set to refresh on a recast (as 99% of buffs and debuffs do) or if it's set to suppress (like mystic fortune and force feedback do). I'm 90% sure it would refresh based on what I've seen but I'm not positive.|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
The debuff lasts 10 seconds. FR can be fired in 30 seconds or sometimes less. With the number of ticks in FR it seems likely that it's going to fire on almost every casting.
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
Now assume that I care far more about the procs performance against an AV than I care about minions.
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Thanks for helping me understand how it all works.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
I saw some calculations on the scrapper board one time for this, since they were working out attack chains with Achilles in multiple attacks (for example katana).
1 proc chance every 10.3 secs:
none activate: 80% ((1 -%) ^ #)
one activates: 20% (% * (1 - %)^(#-1) * #)
multiple activate: 0% (1 - (((1 -%) ^ #) + (% * (1 - %) * (#-1))))
2 proc chances every 10.3 secs:
none activate: 64%
one activates: 32%
multiple activate: 4%
For AV fighting, I'd suggest one in each, since resistance debuffing helps hugely with multiplying overall team damage and AVs are the ideal time to use Tornado anyway. A second proc is roughly equivalent to running Assault for the team, for zero End cost and just one slot instead of a power pool pick.
Interesting fact I saw (though I haven't tested it myself); the Achilles proc isn't affected by the purple patch, i.e. it isn't reduced against higher con foes, unlike debuffs from other sources. It grants an auto power to the foe, and since the foe is always even con to itself and is the source of the effect, its at full power. 
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The Achilles' heel is set to refresh on a recast, and unless it's been changed back, force feedback no longer suppresses but refreshes. Also, saying that every 10 seconds it has another chance to proc, although accurate, is slightly misleading. The rain only lasts 15 seconds (although the debuff will last for 30 seconds after the rain) which means that there is only one additional chance for the proc to fire.|
Originally Posted by Garent
Since the achilles' heel debuff actually lasts slightly more than 10 seconds, I can't tell what the actual damage increase would be unless someone knows whether achilles' heel is set to refresh on a recast (as 99% of buffs and debuffs do) or if it's set to suppress (like mystic fortune and force feedback do). I'm 90% sure it would refresh based on what I've seen but I'm not positive.
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I'm not sure about the proc and the purple patch, I will need to test that. And just tested, scientist correct, the purple patch does not apply.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
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Ah, good to know. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Draggynn
The Achilles' heel is set to refresh on a recast, and unless it's been changed back, force feedback no longer suppresses but refreshes.
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When it comes to AVs, I'd assume that the -res proc would be slightly more effective.
Either way, differences in procs in freezing rain would be marginal at best. It's not like taking out a mob of minions is hard at all, especially with even a semi-competent team. In the case of fighting an AV the target will ideally have its resistance debuffed to such a level that a 20% -res proc won't make a very notable difference... a few procs hitting for damage in the 70s wouldn't be too decisive either.
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As Garent's math shows, it comes down to whether you (and your team)can deal more than 360 damage in the 10 seconds that the proc is active. For most teams the answer is yes and therefore the heel proc is more effective. And if the answer is no (well you better have some regen debuffs because that's not enough to overcome AV regen) then depending on the AVs resistance, the damage proc may be better. So assuming an AV capable team, the res proc is more effective.
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Originally Posted by Silit
When it comes to AVs, I'd assume that the -res proc would be slightly more effective.
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Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
Both Freezing Rain and Tornado can take Achilles Heel -Resistance procs.
Should I just slot it in Freezing Rain, or is the value of having it in both (presumably maintaining the debuff near constantly, especially in AV fights) high enough to justify the slot?
I'm assuming the effects cannot stack, is this correct?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.