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Honestly? I'd have to disagree with this. See, COH didn't launch with PVP. There was some pre-release talk about it (which led to the arenas,) but we have a very comfortable PVE population. |
Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix
While there's a lot of issues with PvP in this game, I think one of the problems is finding it. Nobody PvPs because nobody can find it.
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If it *had* launched with PVP - and not just with PVP mechanics, but with a good reason to PVP, good storyline behind it (other than "I beat you up!") and such, we'd likely have a different population mix now. PVP in COH feels somewhat tacked on - and otherwise is put out of the way. You can go from 1-50 in COH until every possible slot on every server is filled with characters and never encounter PVP (past having to talk to the warzone liason.)
A good portion of the population just doesn't *care* about (or is actively hostile toward) PVP. Even those that do care and like it (such as myself) run through a wide range from "enjoy it casually from time to time" to "hardcore, in PVP SG, running PVP tuned builds only, and almost never stepping out of the zones/arena."
(I'm looking at Aion as a contrast, where - unless you quit before level 10 - you *will* be exposed to PVP in some form. There are missions that take you to speak to someone on the other *active* side of the Colluseum, missions that take you into enemy territory, missions to see people in the Abyss (PVPVE zone) and even if you skip all that - enemy players running through *your* territory to do missions or just hunt players for Abyss points, drops and giggles. You cannot avoid it in that game, pretty much.)
"Can't find it" is also one of the arguments, as a side note, against things like adding more PVP zones, or making the PVE zones "PVPable," or adding /duel commands. It spreads out the PVP community.
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1. For preset arena matches, aka the ones that are always listed but are universally ignored, change the minimum player requirement to two. It's silly, especially on low population servers, for it to not run every hour if there's people signed up. When you're bored and sign up for one of these, it's kind of annoying that, even though there's 6 others signed up, it'll never start because it demands 8. 2. An extension of this, keep the ASAP matches to 8 player minimum for an ASAP start, but if they're short, start them on every hour regardless of number as long as there's at least 2. 3. If a player logs off for a bit, unregister them for all events in the arena they signed up for. I clicked into a Battle Royal with 7 other people. When the match started, nobody spoke or replied when I said hi. Got into the match, nobody entered the map except me. Turns out, all seven of them were offline. They should not have still been signed up for the match. |
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4a. In PvP zones, allow /whoall to cut through /hide. That way someone seeking PvP can see everyone in the zone, hidden or not, and it'll eliminate the need to waste 20 minutes running around looking for someone who might be active but on /hide. 4b. Alternatively, add a / command that says how many enemy players are in the zone, regardless if they're hiding or not. This may be more ideal than 4a, since people can be hidden where ever but you can still tell when there's enemy players in a zone. Though it may take a little more work... or it may not, I don't know. |
I'll mention here, though, that I'm seriously biased. I *like* hunting the other side. I don't *want* to know that there's a Stalker or Controller or whatever else out there - what I *would* like, however, is for them to "leave tracks." (Or perhaps clues would be a better way of putting it.) Meteors, for instance, refresh quickly - unless you're a few seconds behind the other person, in which case you can probably see them, you won't know anyone's been there. (You can't rely on shivans - I can get the shards from all six without ever having a shivan pop up, using just the temp jetpack.)
I've told this before - a year or two ago, I was in BB during the winter event. Zone seemed empty - then I saw frostlings. I hadn't grabbed any presents anywhere near there, so I went hunting. /whoall showed nobody, and I certainly wasn't going to announce my presence. It was a fun hunt - even though I never did find out who else was in the zone. That stalking (in probably the truest, non-creepy-illegal-type sense of the word) was *fun.* I had to guess where they were going, doing, if they knew I was around or not...
Of course, part of that runs headlong into the whole stealth/perception bit. Again after running around in Aion (sorry....) I have to think a wholesale perception nerf would be interesting... as in, no, I can't see you jumping around on the other side of the zone, but within a few hundred feet (?) I might... and have perception powers spike up for those that have them as you get closer, for that melee combat.
That may not work with ranged powers like we have, pets, etc - but it's an interesting experience outside of here.
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| 5. Whenever a player does something in a PvP zone in regards to the zone's mini-game, announce it. Doesn't need to be specific, just something like "A hero has taken a meteor sample" or "A villain has launched the rocket". PvP zones have awesome rewards for ridiculously little risk. This makes it harder for players to engage in these mini-games undetected, upping the risk. You know, kind of what Recluse's Victory does. |
No real comments on the others.
First step to "fixing" PvP is simple: revert to the pre-I13 ruleset. Once that's done, continue as usual.
(Yeah, that'll never happen unfortunately, but in all honesty all the QoL changes in the world don't mean crap if the mechanics of the system are pretty bad, and they are right now.)
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
could always just take advantage of the free server transfers and move your PvP toons to freedom. plenty of PvP going on at all times there.
As far as /whoall cutting through hide, maybe they should post pvp zone populations somewhere in game.
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As for the start of your post, yeah I agree. I meant to word my post a bit differently so it didn't sound like it was the only reason. This is why I need to not post suggestions at 4 A.M. Let me go edit that...|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
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As an aside, I thought about /duel, while I'm of no opinion on it it could be interesting to see. While it would be annoying for reasons outlined here and in topics before, seeing people fight each other in Atlas could provide some amusement. And if Aion is any indication where there's at least some pair of people in each city dueling, then odds are you'd see someone shooting someone else. Granted, it might not be worth the effort putting in or the hassle some people might get from it. Plus, we really don't need it. We have arena access from anywhere now.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
could always just take advantage of the free server transfers and move your PvP toons to freedom. plenty of PvP going on at all times there.
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Actually, I'd structure things slightly differently. The Rolling/ASAP matches would be strictly set to 2 players. This would essentially give the Arena a "quick match" option that would be good for simple 1v1 against someone random.|
Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix
1. For preset arena matches, aka the ones that are always listed but are universally ignored, change the minimum player requirement to two. It's silly, especially on low population servers, for it to not run every hour if there's people signed up. When you're bored and sign up for one of these, it's kind of annoying that, even though there's 6 others signed up, it'll never start because it demands 8.
2. An extension of this, keep the ASAP matches to 8 player minimum for an ASAP start, but if they're short, start them on every hour regardless of number as long as there's at least 2. |
I'd make the preset Battle Royale and Tournament options require 4 but be capable of taking up to 8 players. The ASAP matches would already cover the lowered player amounts plus these two simply seem better suited for larger numbers of players. Also, since these are "official" matches that are slightly harder to fix, I'd give them a slightly higher chance of dropping a PvP IO, have increased PVP Reputation bounues, and/or associate a badge/PvP accolade with them.
I agree with #3 100% and have no clue why don't drop players who log off as it is.
While there's a lot of issues with PvP in this game, I think one of the problems is finding it. Nobody PvPs because nobody can find it. This would actually be one of the easier parts to fix, standard code rant still applying, and could help things a little bit. Basically, a few QoL features could make finding a fellow player to beat up much easier.
1. For preset arena matches, aka the ones that are always listed but are universally ignored, change the minimum player requirement to two. It's silly, especially on low population servers, for it to not run every hour if there's people signed up. When you're bored and sign up for one of these, it's kind of annoying that, even though there's 6 others signed up, it'll never start because it demands 8.
2. An extension of this, keep the ASAP matches to 8 player minimum for an ASAP start, but if they're short, start them on every hour regardless of number as long as there's at least 2.
3. If a player logs off for a bit, unregister them for all events in the arena they signed up for. I clicked into a Battle Royal with 7 other people. When the match started, nobody spoke or replied when I said hi. Got into the match, nobody entered the map except me. Turns out, all seven of them were offline. They should not have still been signed up for the match.
4a. In PvP zones, allow /whoall to cut through /hide. That way someone seeking PvP can see everyone in the zone, hidden or not, and it'll eliminate the need to waste 20 minutes running around looking for someone who might be active but on /hide.
4b. Alternatively, add a / command that says how many enemy players are in the zone, regardless if they're hiding or not. This may be more ideal than 4a, since people can be hidden where ever but you can still tell when there's enemy players in a zone. Though it may take a little more work... or it may not, I don't know.
5. Whenever a player does something in a PvP zone in regards to the zone's mini-game, announce it. Doesn't need to be specific, just something like "A hero has taken a meteor sample" or "A villain has launched the rocket". PvP zones have awesome rewards for ridiculously little risk. This makes it harder for players to engage in these mini-games undetected, upping the risk. You know, kind of what Recluse's Victory does.
6. Probably the least likely to be added, but a transporter of some sort in PvP zones specifically for hopping between them would be nice. Ideally one in each base. This would be nice for those wanting to check each zone for possible foes, especially with either suggestion 4 in place.
7. Adjust Recluse's Victory so that players who capture all the Pillboxes can get the summonable mech. Right now, to get it, you either need to swap kills/pillboxes (not intended, most common) or actually have a big fight for them with ownership trading enough to get the points (intended, never happens). Plus, if they were easier to get, PvErs may be lured in to try to get them, which in turn might attract PvPers to hunt and fight them, putting the needed risk in place. Afterall, unlike the other zones, RV announces which Pillbox you just captured.
7a. If Pillbox captures alone is TOO easy, perhaps throw in a requirement to bring down the reinforcement AVs? That's no easy feat, especially with the screwy interaction of PvE/PvP rules.