kat/dark

dume · 12-25-2009 10:03 AM

Hi all

I've got this new crazy idea of leveling a kat/dark (thanks Werner, your altitis becomes mine ) Anyways, in the past I've had some great help on building my DB/WP and he's been a blast to play.
Now I've been reading on kat/darks and I've found out they can be softcapped, without compromising your build.
ClawsAndEffect his BS/DA is very nice and I'm thinking of following that guide - but is there any chance you guys could quickly throw a more "exemplarable" build together. Also wouldn't it be useful if I could fit PP in? (Loving that power on my DB/WP).

Another thing: are there any significant changes to be made to his attackslotting since I'll play kat instead of BS?

thanks

Werner · 12-25-2009 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dume

are there any significant changes to be made to his attackslotting since I'll play kat instead of BS?

Well, I'm too lazy to track down his build, but the main issue in switching to Katana would be recharge requirements - just need to make sure everything recharges fast enough. I'm guessing you'll be wanting a chain that double-stacks Divine Avalanche, so I'd recommend Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Golden Dragonfly -> Gambler's Cut -> Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Soaring Dragon -> Gambler's Cut. For that, Gambler's Cut is the critical attack, requiring +90% recharge (recharge in 1.58 seconds), and being the one attack you really want the Achilles' Heel in. Golden Dragonfly needs +43% recahrge (recharge in 8.45 seconds), while Soaring Dragon needs only +2%, and Divine Avalanche needs no recharge enhancement at all.

"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

dume · 12-25-2009 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werner

Well, I'm too lazy to track down his build, but the main issue in switching to Katana would be recharge requirements - just need to make sure everything recharges fast enough. I'm guessing you'll be wanting a chain that double-stacks Divine Avalanche, so I'd recommend Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Golden Dragonfly -> Gambler's Cut -> Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Soaring Dragon -> Gambler's Cut. For that, Gambler's Cut is the critical attack, requiring +90% recharge (recharge in 1.58 seconds), and being the one attack you really want the Achilles' Heel in. Golden Dragonfly needs +43% recahrge (recharge in 8.45 seconds), while Soaring Dragon needs only +2%, and Divine Avalanche needs no recharge enhancement at all.

Thanks

I got his build by /search btw

, just referring to it as alot of people have referred to it for being one of the great builds out there.

Although I'm also slightly tempted by BS/SD
*looks for Altitis cure*

Werner · 12-25-2009 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dume

Although I'm also slightly tempted by BS/SD
*looks for Altitis cure*

Broad Sword/Shield Defense was, I think, the most fun I've had from 1-50. So I'm no help.

"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

dume · 12-25-2009 02:03 PM

I should be able to level pact myself

Starflier · 12-25-2009 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werner

Broad Sword/Shield Defense was, I think, the most fun I've had from 1-50. So I'm no help.

I'm certainly enjoying mine, one of those weird confluences of great name, costume and concept, with a powerset combination that kicks ***. Heck, even got a badass name for my one man SG, The Valkyries, on Freedom.

As to the original question, I realize I've never actually tried katana past level 4 in 4+ years of playing, so I'm also not much help there. I find Dark Armor a very peculiar set which I have difficulty describing or explaining. Wasted on small mobs, a little weak for really big ones, it takes some work to find the right balance. Then again, I went Elec/Dark, so the +def from DA might make it quite a bit more survivable in your case.

They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!

@Starflier

dume · 12-25-2009 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starflier

I'm certainly enjoying mine, one of those weird confluences of great name, costume and concept, with a powerset combination that kicks ***. Heck, even got a badass name for my one man SG, The Valkyries, on Freedom.

As to the original question, I realize I've never actually tried katana past level 4 in 4+ years of playing, so I'm also not much help there. I find Dark Armor a very peculiar set which I have difficulty describing or explaining. Wasted on small mobs, a little weak for really big ones, it takes some work to find the right balance. Then again, I went Elec/Dark, so the +def from DA might make it quite a bit more survivable in your case.

Well I'm aiming for something Claws had in his build: soft cap, nice resistances, as high regen as possible & enough recharge to ensure a top chain including DA to help out on defence (Hope I can go with 1 application so I don't have to compromise my dps too much) Although I'm wondering how usefull is DA if I reach the softcap? Probably sitll usefull for +2-4's & AV's I'm guessing?

Werner · 12-25-2009 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dume

...enough recharge to ensure a top chain including DA to help out on defence (Hope I can go with 1 application so I don't have to compromise my dps too much) Although I'm wondering how usefull is DA if I reach the softcap?

You're not going to reach the melee soft cap without either Divine Avalanche or sacrificing the soft cap in ranged or AoE defense. So yes, Divine Avalanche is still useful. As for one in the chain vs. two in the chain, you could probably get away with only one. I hit 41.2% melee defense with one, and with no defense slotting in Divine Avalanche itself, so it probably wouldn't take much more to get to 45%+.

"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

Werner · 12-25-2009 06:32 PM

My build by request.

Code:

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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

dume · 12-26-2009 02:22 AM

Aahh damn
Still don't have MID's - any chance someone can expand this one for me?

Ty alot already Werner

Tealeaf · 12-26-2009 05:16 AM

Werner's expanded export per request:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Alexei, 70% CoF vs. +4: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut

(A) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
(3) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(3) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
(5) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
(5) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
(7) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff

Level 1: Dark Embrace

(A) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
(7) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge
(9) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(9) Aegis - Resistance
(11) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
(11) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 2: Sting of the Wasp

(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(13) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
(13) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
(15) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(15) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(17) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 4: Death Shroud

(A) Eradication - Damage
(17) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge
(19) Eradication - Damage/Recharge
(19) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(21) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(21) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage

Level 6: Super Jump

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
(23) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
(23) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 8: Divine Avalanche

(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(25) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
(25) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
(27) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(27) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(29) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 10: Obsidian Shield

(A) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection

Level 12: Murky Cloud

(A) Aegis - Resistance
(29) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
(31) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 14: Hurdle

(A) Jumping IO

Level 16: Combat Jumping

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
(31) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
(31) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
(33) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(33) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

Level 18: Health

(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
(33) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge
(34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
(34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
(36) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery

Level 20: Stamina

(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(36) Performance Shifter - EndMod
(36) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy

Level 22: The Lotus Drops

(A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
(37) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
(37) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
(37) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
(39) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

Level 24: Dark Regeneration

(A) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
(39) HamiO:Golgi Exposure
(39) Theft of Essence - Chance for +Endurance
(40) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge
(40) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
(40) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge

Level 26: Cloak of Darkness

(A) Shield Wall - Defense
(42) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
(42) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +3% Res (All)
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(43) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure

Level 28: Cloak of Fear

(A) HamiO:Endoplasm Exposure
(43) Nightmare - Accuracy/Endurance

Level 30: Boxing

(A) Empty

Level 32: Tough

(A) HamiO:Ribosome Exposure
(43) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 35: Weave

(A) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
(45) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
(45) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 38: Maneuvers

(A) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
(45) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 41: Conserve Power

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 44: Physical Perfection

(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(46) Performance Shifter - EndMod
(46) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
(46) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
(48) Miracle - +Recovery

Level 47: Tactics

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
(48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
(50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
(50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
(50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 49: Build Up

(A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure

------------
Level 1: Brawl

(A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Celerity - +Stealth

Level 2: Rest

(A) Empty

Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

8.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
8.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
8.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
8.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
8.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
8.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
8.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
8.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
7.25% Defense(Smashing)
7.25% Defense(Lethal)
21.3% Defense(Fire)
21.3% Defense(Cold)
19.1% Defense(Energy)
19.1% Defense(Negative)
6% Defense(Psionic)
8.5% Defense(Melee)
27.6% Defense(Ranged)
27.3% Defense(AoE)
1.8% Max End
40% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
24% Enhancement(Accuracy)
6% Enhancement(Heal)
15% FlySpeed
225.9 HP (16.9%) HitPoints
15% JumpHeight
15% JumpSpeed
Knockback (Mag -12)
Knockup (Mag -12)
MezResist(Held) 9.9%
MezResist(Immobilize) 6.6%
MezResist(Repel) 1000% (10% chance, in PvP)
9% (0.15 End/sec) Recovery
44% (2.46 HP/sec) Regeneration
3% Resistance(Smashing)
3% Resistance(Lethal)
5.52% Resistance(Fire)
5.52% Resistance(Cold)
3% Resistance(Energy)
6.13% Resistance(Negative)
3% Resistance(Toxic)
6% Resistance(Psionic)
25% RunSpeed
4.5% XPDebtProtection

------------
Set Bonuses:
Hecatomb
(Gambler's Cut)

4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Aegis
(Dark Embrace)

5% RunSpeed
3.13% Defense(Fire,Cold), 1.56% Defense(AoE)
2.5% XPDebtProtection
3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
3% Resistance(Psionic)

Gladiator's Armor
(Dark Embrace)

3% Defense(All)

Mako's Bite
(Sting of the Wasp)

MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
3% DamageBuff(All)
MezResist(Held) 3.3%
3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)

Eradication
(Death Shroud)

1.8% Max End
3.13% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.56% Defense(Ranged)
30.1 HP (2.25%) HitPoints
2% XPDebtProtection
3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)

Blessing of the Zephyr
(Super Jump)

3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)
3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
Knockback Protection (Mag -4)

Mako's Bite
(Divine Avalanche)

MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
3% DamageBuff(All)
MezResist(Held) 3.3%
3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)

Steadfast Protection
(Obsidian Shield)

Knockback Protection (Mag -4)

Aegis
(Murky Cloud)

5% RunSpeed
3.13% Defense(Fire,Cold), 1.56% Defense(AoE)

Blessing of the Zephyr
(Combat Jumping)

3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)
3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
Knockback Protection (Mag -4)

Luck of the Gambler
(Combat Jumping)

7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Numina's Convalescence
(Health)

12% (0.67 HP/sec) Regeneration
25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
6% Enhancement(Heal)
MezResist(Held) 3.3%
3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)

Performance Shifter
(Stamina)

5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints

Scirocco's Dervish
(The Lotus Drops)

10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
3.13% Resistance(Negative)
9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)

Numina's Convalescence
(Dark Regeneration)

12% (0.67 HP/sec) Regeneration
25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints

Shield Wall
(Cloak of Darkness)

10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration, 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery (in PvP)
30.1 HP (2.25%) HitPoints, MezResist(Repel) 1000% (10% chance, in PvP)
3% Resistance(All)

Luck of the Gambler
(Cloak of Darkness)

7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Steadfast Protection
(Tough)

3% Defense(All)

Luck of the Gambler
(Weave)

7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Luck of the Gambler
(Maneuvers)

7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Performance Shifter
(Physical Perfection)

5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints

Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control
(Tactics)

5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
2.5% DamageBuff(All)
2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing), 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative), 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)

I'm Tealeaf, and I approve of this message.

See [URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=2134817#post2134817"]Useful Tagging for the good of the Forum[/URL], my guide to tags.

Werner · 12-26-2009 11:22 AM

Since it apparently doesn't come across in the text dump, all of the Hamios are level 53. It's the difference between 44.8% and 44.96% AoE defense. Nothing you'd notice, but it's taking 3% more AoE damage if you stick with 50s.

I have minor endurance issues. For instance, I ran out of endurance towards the end of the double Rikti War Zone challenge, though that probably could have been avoided had I remembered to turn off Cloak of Fear once the minions were down. Pylons are OK since I can turn off a lot of toggles. I've barely started on AVs, so I don't have much to report there. I do have to chug my blues if I'm farming at full speed.

Some differences with ClawsandEffect's excellent build:

Over 10 times the price
6 seconds faster recharge on Dark Regeneration
45 more hit points
7 hit points per second better passive regeneration
17% higher to-hit
5% higher weighted average resists
4 points more knockback protection
I do no knockdown/knockup
I probably do lower DPS, but haven't calculated
Cloak of Fear vs. Oppressive Gloom (personal preference, easy swap)
Probably some endurance differences, but difficult to calculate

Overall, I'll still say that ClawsandEffect has the better build, because price IS a concern for most people, and he hits the same highlights (soft-capped defense in a practical build with travel power and AoE) at a VASTLY lower price point.

One possible difference for you, dume, is that I have my full attack chain by level 8, since I skipped the Katana big hitters. So in that sense it may exemplar better. But it was not designed for it.

"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

dume · 12-26-2009 02:59 PM

Thanks for the build expansion Tealeaf and thanks for the explanation Werner
What I'm gonna do is mix and match builds till it works for me, but it's a tedious proces as I don't have easy access to MID's on mac.
Since I probably have a different playstyle, the builds might work different for me - but your builds have proven to be awesome for acquiring my own in the past (same goes for Claws' build, and lots of others who gave me great help on my DB/WP)

I will probably go for the big hitters though as that's what I love about kat (those attacks make me feel all tingly inside ^^)
I will probably find a way to cope with end issues - probably a different playstyle, some different slotting, I'll see how I come out of it.

Anyways thanks for the help - if anyone has more to add about kat/dark feel free to as it can help me aswell others.

Tealeaf · 12-29-2009 04:31 AM

Glad to be of service. Also, I've added the kat/dark tag to this thread. If you clicky, you'll find over a half dozen others. Maybe something in there can help you out.

I'm Tealeaf, and I approve of this message.

See [URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=2134817#post2134817"]Useful Tagging for the good of the Forum[/URL], my guide to tags.