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Wuss. Where's the challenge in that? | As usual I was more interested in letting people experience the story than in trying to kill them. |
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
My thoughts are in my One a Day thread.
I'm an SG-mate, so admittedly somewhat biased, but even so I believe this is another very well done story. I particularly liked the Mission-Accept "taglines" which flowed from the story and were not just "Accept" buttons. Make sure to read the final souvenir - sheds light on how the events in the story were -really- possible.
Also features a favorite NPC of mine, a non-as-evil-as-others World Conqueror. 
As noted, it's easily solo-able (although if you aren't careful there's one spot where ambushes can pile up on you: I just clicked out of the mission at that point though).
This thread was probably marked heroic (I didn't think to check) but I played it with my brute, who will be Going Rogue one day... and this is a very appropriate arc for such a character, I think.
Replies to Sister_Twelve's comments, posted to her "One a Day" thread:
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As far as I know there's been no official direct word on what Christmas in the Isles is like, but given the derisive way Silver Mantis discusses it in her journal and Recluse's general attitude I don't think they permit much in the way of merrymaking.| The author indicates, though I am not sure if this is canonical, that Christmas has basically been suppressed in the Rogue Isles because Recluse does not allow the people to celebrate it under Arachnos Rule. |
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| I don't often say this, but 3/5 missions are probably too short to have much impact. The story is good, but the story has to work within the framework of a game and in order for the arc to be enjoyable, it has to play well as well as read well. The mission where you free your Longbow colleague and then defeat the boss took me approximately 18 seconds to finish for example. |
I'm still torn about Act IV and whether or not to fill the map out (it's currently another empty map with two placed encounters). I'm not sure I want to make the player (effectively) clear that map a second time, and putting in more spawns increases the chance of Ramiel getting KO'd, which is awkward (he's AV rank, but when running the arc at +2x5 he got splashed once), unless I rig it so he doesn't actually fight. It is a small map, though, and some players might appreciate the extra combat. I'll have to think about it and see what the feedback is like.
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| The arc is essentially more about the contact than it is about the hero. I am not sure if the author intended this or not, but without Ariadne's backstory to bolster my liking of this narrative, I am not sure if any of my other character's would relate as well or at all. |
I have gone through the arc and made some small edits. I cleaned up some typos, tightened up the text in a few places and added short bios for all the named Bosses (no one has broken the code on them yet, but the arc's only had four plays as of last night). Thanks again for the review!
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Replying to Police Woman's review:
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This Clue barely fits into the space provided as it is.| [-0.01] Formatting: should separate bullet points A, B and C with line breaks to make them more legible. |
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| [-0.1] Doesn't make sense: if the 5th Column have really infiltrated this Council base, why would they incriminate themselves by putting this information in a file on the computer? |
I suppose I could hijack the mission-end Clue (which I don't think I used in act II) but that seems gratuitous.
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| [-0.1] Ally too powerful: an EB ally (maybe an AV on higher difficulty?) seems much too strong for the opposition in this mission. (Also it's just plain weird that she's invis while kneeling down as a captive.) |
As for the invisibility, I want her to have Ninjitsu, she has to have Hide and the devs insist on having combatant hostages run their toggles. Nothing I can do about it.
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| I like the etymology and the symbolism of the Ramiel codename that is presented, though I can't confirm that Ramiel actually means what he says; Wikipedia says it means "Thunder of God" and also the name of the angel of hope (which seems fitting for the theme). |
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| Ramiel is the angel of hope, and he is credited with two tasks: he is responsible for divine visions, and he guides the souls of the faithful into Heaven. He is called Jeremiel or Uriel in various translations of IV Esdras, and is described as "one of the holy angels whom God has set over those who rise" from the dead, in effect the angel that watches over those that are to resurrect. |
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| We find Operative Lucci and defeat her. She has some fun dialog. After she goes down, I still haven't achieved "Defeat Operative Lucci"; I had to kill a Fortunata in the next room before I got credit. May want to make her "only boss required". |
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| [-0.01] Phrasing: "whatever else hoi polloi" -> "whatever else the hoi polloi" (in "The Plan") |
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| [-0.1] Plot hole: how are the Christmas supplies being recovered? (I would've expected some glowies to click.) Even if this isn't a task assigned to me, I would expect some mention to be made of how this will happen. |
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| [-0.1] Doesn't make sense: not very smart for mysterious ally to admit to treason in writing and sign his name. |
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| I thought this was a very nice holiday-themed story arc with good writing and characters. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
I fixed the typos, and tweaked the text a little in a few spots. Notably, Ramiel explains that he was planning to run the comm systems at the captured base remotely but can't because the last-minute attack damaged the equipment. That's why he wasn't planning to meet you back at the base again.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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You know, I had pretty recently re-read Season of Mists and didn't catch that. Gaiman calls him "Remiel", though; the different spelling made me miss the connection (though, granted, Hebrew transliteration into English is probably pretty arbitrary).|
Originally Posted by Venture
It's also how he was referred to in The Sandman, for what that's worth.
|
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| The message given when you click the computer says that Jack's people are clear to steal the trucks with the supplies. There was a note to that effect in the briefing originally but it looks like I accidentally cut it. I'll see if there's room to put it back. |
@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"
I loved this arc. It was very well written and easy to solo. I especially love the Grinch-like last mission and the souvenir. The arc really touched me without going over the top. Great job!
@Gypsy Rose
In Pursuit of Liberty - 344916
The Vigilante - 395861
Suppression - 374481 - Winner of The American Legion's February 2011 AE Author Contest
Thanks!
I've been debating how long to leave this up for, since it is a holiday arc. One the one hand it is a bit unusual to have a Christmas arc up in, say, June. On the other, if I don't need the room (and "Psychophage" will stop that bullet first), there's not much reason to delete it....
If I did remove it, it would almost certainly get republished next Christmas season, of course.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Venture asked me to review his arc, "The Christmas We Get." This is my first stab at any sort of arc review, so this may be a bit rocky, but I appreciate Venture giving me permission even though he probably knows I'm going to rake him over the coals.
I played the arc twice, once with friends (I had the star so I could read everything), and a second time, solo, to grab details for the review.
My comments are intended for the author and not for players, so there is no rating given.
Here's my perception.
What worked:
- The player gets xp and tickets.
- The play is reasonably quick and easy right up till the end. (Probably one too many ambushes at the end.)
- It is canon-related without violating canon.
What didn't work:
- The basic premise seems flawed.
- Not sure which plot was intended to be the main plot and which was the subplot.
- The player is given miscues throughout.
- The player is strung along by the contact.
- There are a lot of extraneous details.
- The story wanders back and forth between humor and seriousness, without really establishing a foothold in either area.
- The story doesn't seem big enough for 5 missions.
- Was there supposed to be a theme? 'Cause I didn't see any theme.
What I would have like to have seen:
- One main plot that is bigger in scale, with a smaller subplot.
- Preferably a serious tone, as opposed to humorous. There can be humorous instances, but the player should know for certain whether he is in a humorous or serious arc.
- An author's note explaining any significant external references in the arc.
Fix the Main Premise
As I saw it, the basic premise of the arc is that a villain attempts to gain power by encouraging a celebration of Christmas in the Rogue Isles. This is a hard sell. It sounds ridiculous. I think there are probably different ways of achieving whatever it is that the author is seeking to do.
First of all, if the main action of the arc is simply to recover some Christmas supplies from a warehouse, then it sounds like it could be accomplished in a single, unelaborate mission. The rest of it seems like it is being unnecessarily stretched out.
If, on the other hand, the main action is to explore the character and motivations of Ramiel ... I don't think that worked so well. He looked like a villain from the start, and guess what? He is one, at least so far as I can tell. But it's kind of iffy, because he didn't really do anything.
The way the arc is presented, it portrays the investigation of Ramiel's character as the main plot, with the Christmas supplies as the subplot. But since there is no real action with the investigation of Ramiel's character, just a mini-reveal, I think it is actually the subplot, and the Christmas story should be more dominant.
My recommendation is to shift from Ramiel as the contact to Father Jack. If desired, Ramiel can be a background character and the subject of a subplot.
The author could open the arc with the mission where the player steals the impounded Christmas supplies from the warehouse. Next could be a series of other good deeds, like rescuing innocent citizens from oppression by Arachnos. Surely there are a few good people in jail, or in the process of being arrested that the player could save, and the author could take the opportunity to work in a subplot, maybe featuring the mysterious Ramiel who appears somehow connected with this. Then close the arc with a description of the Christmas supplies being used, and perhaps a stronger emphasis on some sort of closure.
Miscues, Extraneous Details, and Holes
There are a lot of these in the arc, or at least I thought so. I'll list a few to give an idea of what I'm talking about.
Each thing a player reads or experiences, and the order in which these come, acts to set up an expectation of where the story is going. Players are held in suspense between the point where the hint is first dropped to where it is resolved, and they wait in suspense from hint to resolution to see if they guessed correctly.
Miscues can screw this up. A miscue is where something is said or done that gets the player believing something is going to happen that never really happens or which turns out to be unimportant. A few purposeful miscues can be fine; dragging a red herring across the trail can be appreciated if it is done well. But you don't want to make a habit of abusing player expectations.
In this arc there are numerous cues that tell the player to expect Ramiel to do something villainous, but he never really does. There also aren't many cues that he is going to turn out to be good (red herrings).
Frankly, judging from the cues I was picking up on, I expected him to announce at some point that one of the things he'd asked me to do was really for some evil purpose, and that he was lying and taking advantage of me. And he kept asking me if I wanted to stay in the arc, as if something really objectionable was about to happen next.
There are also cues indicating an important operation is underway, but it really isn't very important, so that's a miscue. And then there are all the extraneous cues which never really amount to anything, like the use of a Council base that has been taken over by the 5th Column, Murano's apparent familiarity with Father Jack, and so on.
As a player going through the arc and following the cues, I felt like a dog whose owner keeps taking the leash down from the wall, waving it around, then putting it back on the hook. Then the owner grabs a box of dog biscuits, waves it under my nose, and puts it back. Then the owner goes for the leash again. And at the end of the day I've neither gone on a walk nor had a treat.
To maintain the integrity of the story it's important to be as clear as possible about what's important for the reader to note, and what isn't.
What I perceived as cues, but were miscues, probably made it seem like there were more holes or loose ends than there were, but I'd still say there were some significant question marks raised during the action of the story.
Here are a few, in no particular order:
- Is it Longbow's usual practice to determine a superpowered person's moral alignment by sending a hero do this person's bidding? That really seemed odd.
- Why in the world did Ramiel need to trigger a maximum alert of Arachnos forces just to break into a warehouse and grab Christmas supplies? And might the ploy actually backfire and tighten security?
- And why did Scirocco go to such an unnecessary length for something so frivolous? (Yeah, spiritual blah blah, not buying it, even Ramiel said it was artificial.)
- If Christmas supplies are forbidden by Arachnos, then why weren't they rejected upon arrival? If they were identified upon delivery, the freighter or airplane should have had the cargo refused and been forced to take it away.
- Or if the supplies were smuggled in, how were they discovered?
- If the supplies were smuggled in and discovered, then is it that they are being kept as evidence while an investigation seeks out the intended receiver?
- Why is Father Jack a supporter of Ramiel?
- Why is Father Jack being arrested by Arachnos? Is it because he was the intended receiver of the smuggled goods?
- It is implausible that it takes so long to arrest Father Jack that Ramiel is able to find out about it, wait for the player to return, and send the player to the site of the arrest in time to prevent word of the arrest from reaching Arachnos HQ. What is the excuse? Does it take Arachnos a few hours to do the paperwork in the field? If so, how do they ever manage to get around to oppressing people?
- What was Ramiel doing during the Father Jack rescue? He said he was "distracting Arachnos" but he ends up with Arachnos in his newly won lair?
- And how did Arachnos damage the ability to remotely activate the big distraction, yet still leave the ability to access the Arachnos network?
- How did Ramiel know the Council base was a listening post?
Anyway, those are the basic sorts of issues I saw with the arc.
I'd say clarifying the basic premise is the most important thing to do. With a probable villain as the contact I doubted every single thing he said and dreaded the moment when he'd turn the tables on me.
Second would be being particularly careful with what's said to avoid miscues.
External References
I had the strong feeling during the arc that I might be expected to pick up on certain external references. I found myself thinking perhaps this story was supposed to parallel some other story, like maybe some sort of WW II story about Christmas in Nazi Germany or something.
Ramiel's remark about passing out trinkets and food, for example, reminded me of how Hitler did the same thing in the Depression, during his rise to power.
The note that Father Jack chose to hide his religious affiliation also made it seem like the story was supposed to resemble some other story.
But I couldn't come up with anything.
In the end, after Googling a bit, I came to the following conclusions.
The title, "The Christmas We Get," probably comes from a line from a U2 song I'm not familiar with. The gist of it is that "the Christmas we get is the one we deserve." If there was supposed to be a theme, I'd expect it to relate to this title. But with so much of the action revolving around Ramiel and his apparent inaction, I am at a loss for how to apply this notion of a theme to the story.
"Father Jack" might be named after the opposite type of character with the same name on the BBC show "Father Ted."
Operative Scott is maybe a "The Office" reference? I don't know, I don't watch the show.
Operatives Lucci and Scott and Scirocco probably show up in that other arc with Ramiel in it. Maybe Father Jack as well.
Operative Carrey was probably a reference to "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas."
I realize this is a long review with maybe just a few main points, but really it IS a condensation of my 3.5 pages of notes.
Normally when I get a bad review I just say "thanks for the review, sorry you didn't like it", but I think a more in-depth reply is in order (and was requested anyway). RL kept me from writing one sooner.
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Actually I was interested in your take on the morality issues vis-a-vis the earlier discussion in the Aeon's Challenge thread. I think this is the only thing you didn't comment on. | Venture asked me to review his arc, "The Christmas We Get." |
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| As I saw it, the basic premise of the arc is that a villain attempts to gain power by encouraging a celebration of Christmas in the Rogue Isles. This is a hard sell. It sounds ridiculous. |
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| Ramiel's remark about passing out trinkets and food, for example, reminded me of how Hitler did the same thing in the Depression, during his rise to power. |
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| First of all, if the main action of the arc is simply to recover some Christmas supplies from a warehouse, then it sounds like it could be accomplished in a single, unelaborate mission. The rest of it seems like it is being unnecessarily stretched out. |
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| If, on the other hand, the main action is to explore the character and motivations of Ramiel ... I don't think that worked so well. He looked like a villain from the start, and guess what? He is one, at least so far as I can tell. |
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| The way the arc is presented, it portrays the investigation of Ramiel's character as the main plot, with the Christmas supplies as the subplot. But since there is no real action with the investigation of Ramiel's character, just a mini-reveal, I think it is actually the subplot, and the Christmas story should be more dominant. |
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| Miscues can screw this up. A miscue is where something is said or done that gets the player believing something is going to happen that never really happens or which turns out to be unimportant. |
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| Frankly, judging from the cues I was picking up on, I expected him to announce at some point that one of the things he'd asked me to do was really for some evil purpose, and that he was lying and taking advantage of me. |
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| There are also cues indicating an important operation is underway, but it really isn't very important, so that's a miscue. |
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| And then there are all the extraneous cues which never really amount to anything, like the use of a Council base that has been taken over by the 5th Column, Murano's apparent familiarity with Father Jack, and so on. |
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| Is it Longbow's usual practice to determine a superpowered person's moral alignment by sending a hero do this person's bidding? That really seemed odd. |
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| Why in the world did Ramiel need to trigger a maximum alert of Arachnos forces just to break into a warehouse and grab Christmas supplies? And might the ploy actually backfire and tighten security? |
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| And why did Scirocco go to such an unnecessary length for something so frivolous? (Yeah, spiritual blah blah, not buying it, even Ramiel said it was artificial.) |
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| If Christmas supplies are forbidden by Arachnos, then why weren't they rejected upon arrival? If they were identified upon delivery, the freighter or airplane should have had the cargo refused and been forced to take it away. |
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| If the supplies were smuggled in and discovered, then is it that they are being kept as evidence while an investigation seeks out the intended receiver? |
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| Why is Father Jack a supporter of Ramiel? |
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| Why is Father Jack being arrested by Arachnos? Is it because he was the intended receiver of the smuggled goods? |
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| It is implausible that it takes so long to arrest Father Jack that Ramiel is able to find out about it, wait for the player to return, and send the player to the site of the arrest in time to prevent word of the arrest from reaching Arachnos HQ. |
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| What was Ramiel doing during the Father Jack rescue? He said he was "distracting Arachnos" but he ends up with Arachnos in his newly won lair? |
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| And how did Arachnos damage the ability to remotely activate the big distraction, yet still leave the ability to access the Arachnos network? |
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| How did Ramiel know the Council base was a listening post? |
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| The title, "The Christmas We Get," probably comes from a line from a U2 song I'm not familiar with. The gist of it is that "the Christmas we get is the one we deserve." |
As for other cultural references:
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| "Father Jack" might be named after the opposite type of character with the same name on the BBC show "Father Ted." |
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|
Operative Scott is maybe a "The Office" reference? I don't know, I don't watch the show. Operatives Lucci and Scott and Scirocco probably show up in that other arc with Ramiel in it. Maybe Father Jack as well. Operative Carrey was probably a reference to "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas." |
Neither Scirocco nor Father Jack appears in "Splintered Shields". Of course, everyone should play it anyway.
So, in short, thanks for the review and I'm sorry you didn't like it.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Venture, I won't address this point by point, as it seems pretty clear you believe in the story and its presentation. But just to respond to the morality question ...
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First, let me clarify for the one or two people who might possibly read this, that we spoke via private message, and I asked you if there was anything in particular you wanted me to address or anything you wanted me to skip in my review. You told me you had no requests or proscriptions.|
Originally Posted by Venture
Actually I was interested in your take on the morality issues vis-a-vis the earlier discussion in the Aeon's Challenge thread. I think this is the only thing you didn't comment on.
|
So I didn't address the "morality issue" because I found it hard to take the arc seriously. Until your rebuttal clarified the matter, I wasn't even sure YOU intended it to be taken seriously.
Humorous arcs don't have a morality.
Now that I see it was intended as a serious arc, I'm not entirely sure what to make of it.
As a player, I found the ethics sharply conflicted as I had to put on my cynical vigilante/secret agent hat to work so closely with a villain, but in order to have the "let's save Christmas!" idea be at all appealing, I had to put on my "head in the clouds, idealistic hero" hat. So for me that aspect of play was incompatible. As the gritty vigilante I could care less about saving a holiday, I'm concerned with justice and lives. And as the idealistic hero I would never further the plans of a villain. There is just no way I would help a villain conduct a publicity campaign designed to help him grow his forces.
In that sense, "The Christmas We Get" is one that should taste of ashes if we help Ramiel. I would have liked it better if I'd had some other option, where maybe I'd help Father Jack save Christmas and foil the plans of all the villains. Unfortunately, the way the arc is written, as players we can only take the mission that serves Ramiel or refuse to play.
For me, that breaks the arc. After batting the idiot ball around for a while the player finally gets smacked full on in the face with it. However, I take it that's how you intended the arc to go, so it works for you.
One thing this arc has in common with minimalist's arc is that it uses a villain as a contact for heroic missions. I think this is a very tricky thing to attempt, and as I see it both arcs failed to create a workable story because of it.
That is why I suggested you make Father Jack your contact, etc.
For what it's worth, I've heard your "Two Houses Divided" arc is pretty good. I'll give it a try.
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I wanted to see what you had to say without further prompting.| First, let me clarify for the one or two people who might possibly read this, that we spoke via private message, and I asked you if there was anything in particular you wanted me to address or anything you wanted me to skip in my review. You told me you had no requests or proscriptions. |
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| Humorous arcs don't have a morality. |
It would be difficult to even try to list all the modern comedians who use humor to talk about real issues: Bill Maher, Dennis Miller, George Carlin, all of Monty Python...just off the top of my head. Likewise the mind boggles at the number of comedic books, movies or other works that have moral issues. Let's just go with The Life of Brian and call it a day.
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| There is just no way I would help a villain conduct a publicity campaign designed to help him grow his forces. |
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| In that sense, "The Christmas We Get" is one that should taste of ashes if we help Ramiel. |
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| Heroism is a selflessness, a willingness to sacrifice one's own needs and desires for others. Evil is the opposite: a self-centeredness that typically causes others to sacrifice for your own needs and desires. |
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| Now as far as I can see, the idea of a "hero who does evil for the greater good" isn't actually a reference to doing evil. Because you can't be selfish for the greater good. Anything you do for the greater good is ultimately selfless. |
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| After batting the idiot ball around for a while the player finally gets smacked full on in the face with it. |
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| One thing this arc has in common with minimalist's arc is that it uses a villain as a contact for heroic missions. I think this is a very tricky thing to attempt, and as I see it both arcs failed to create a workable story because of it. |
P. S.: If you really think humorous arcs can't have morality, don't play "Why We Fight" (#253990). Or, maybe you should.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
As someone who played "The Christmas We Get" ~and~ the one introducing Ramiel, I'd just like to throw out there the idea that it's still very possible for me to consider Ramiel if not a hero, certainly an anti-hero or ~possible~ hero.
In his previous arc, even though it was still clear he was a 'villain', Ramiel actually seemed almost like a good guy, or a bad guy that MIGHT turn into a good guy. This second appearance by Ramiel tends to reinforce or remind one that, yes, he IS still a villain... but despite his protestations, I still would not be at all surprised were the character to ~eventually~ shift to a more heroic nature.
Not overnight, to be sure, but I could easily see him changing subtly over time. These heroic-SEEMING acts of this, which are ultimately self-serving, could influence him. Han Solo was a criminal, a smuggler, who only looked out for himself, shot a bounty hunter FIRST and could generally be considered a 'bad guy' and yet by the end of the movie he's changed into a hero.
One of the reasons I'm looking forward to Going Rogue --- and one reason I particularly like this NPC and his presentation --- is that the idea of a character changing over time is quite appealing to me.
While I might like to see a gruff, but basically heroic Ramiel in future stories (post-Going Rogue perhaps)... I would also not be surprised if he did NOT "step up" and continued down his dark path. Even if he WANTED to change, later on as a result of influences in his life, perhaps he's already done so MUCH evil that he just can't bring himself to change.
All the more tragic, I think, to have the possibility of a character being redeemed and have him fail to make that change. Makes for a far more vibrant and REAL character, to my mind. We have too many "Mwah hah hah!" totally evil and obviously evil two-dimensional villains --- it's nice to have one with some depth.
EDIT: To =/= Too... it's early, gimme a break :P
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I haven't played the arc introducing Ramiel, but I did pick up on the idea that Ramiel is supposed to get a pass from the player because he's supposed to go heroic at some point.|
Originally Posted by Brachaesnethar
As someone who played "The Christmas We Get" ~and~ the one introducing Ramiel, I'd just like to throw out there the idea that it's still very possible for me to consider Ramiel if not a hero, certainly an anti-hero or ~possible~ hero.
|
Probably after I put him in jail.
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My point is that with a humorous arc the player doesn't take the consequences of actions seriously ... in the same sense we don't take the violence in "Tom & Jerry" seriously.|
Originally Posted by Venture
Humor has been used to convey serious themes since, oh, the ancient Greeks? ( ... ) Likewise the mind boggles at the number of comedic books, movies or other works that have moral issues.
|
Your arc lacked moral weight because of the way it was presented. It glossed over the weighty issues and spent more time on distractions and jokes. A Greek writer or stand up comic would have hammered at the issues till they bled. That's one of the reasons why I suggested you add more weighty material, such as having the player save political prisoners.
Having people risking their lives for Christmas ornaments and fruitcake is pretty lightweight; it smacks of cartoon logic.
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| So you would deny the people of Port Oakes a chance to celebrate their holiday just because you don't like the person who's making it possible? |
The whole point of the stories is that it isn't the stuff (of Christmas) that's important, it's the (Christmas) spirit.
If the people of the Rogue Isles wanted to celebrate their Christmas, they could have done it like the Whos in Whoville. They could gather, hold hands, and sing. No special Christmas stuff is required.
The main thrust of Scrooge's story, as well, is that we shouldn't get caught up in the spell cast by materialism, but should enjoy sharing our time, love, and happiness with others. The three spirits of Christmas came to Scrooge in his sleep to awaken his own Christmas spirit.
Your arc rather starkly breaks with the tradition, using the (heroic) player to fulfill a villain's wish to bring a cynical and material Christmas to the masses. That's one reason I was surprised and dissatisfied with it.
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| This arc is (another) example of a plausible circumstance which contradicts them. In order to deny that what Ramiel is doing is a greater good, yet done for reasons of self-interest, the above must either be interpreted capriciously or in a circular fashion. |
What's worse is that the player must play along, trusting the author to provide a better (heroic) ending.
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| This I must take exception with. The arc does not throw the Idiot Ball. Ramiel tells you up front that his motives are self-serving. At no point is the player asked to do anything stupid. |
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| Rather, you just don't like them because you have a view of morality that is utterly incompatable with actual social reality. Which is why I asked you to play it in the first place. |
Scrap it and write another one.
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...in your opinion. Everyone else who's played it and commented seems to have gotten the point.| Your arc lacked moral weight because of the way it was presented. |
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| Haven't you seen / read "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" or "A Christmas Carol" ...? |
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| If the people of the Rogue Isles wanted to celebrate their Christmas, they could have done it like the Whos in Whoville. They could gather, hold hands, and sing. |
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| No, lol. Ramiel is not only serving himself, he is comically lost. In no way is he serving the greater good. He's the anti-Grinch, and instead of being spiritually redeemed through the events of the story, he uses materialism in a cynical attempt to corrupt the masses on their holy day. |
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| I disagree. |
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| You just didn't write the story you thought you did. |
And I would have let this entire post pass without comment (in fact, I missed it thanks to the double post), except for....
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| Scrap it and write another one. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Am I not allowed to say that?|
Originally Posted by Venture
EXSQUEEZE ME?!? Who the hell do you think you are?
|
I think it is relatively common for writers in a workshop to suggest to one another that characters, plots, subplots, themes, and even whole works be scrapped.
It's intended as a constructive opinion about the arc itself. And it is just an opinion. I don't pretend to speak for everyone, nor do I pretend to speak with false authority.
So ... scrap it or keep it. I've provided you with my view, but it's your choice.
Done as part of the CoHMR Aggregator project.
@GlaziusF
Running this on a low 40s rad/sonic defender, +0 x1 with bosses on.
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Huh. Tie in to that... what was it, broken swords thing? (Ed: Splintered Shields.)
Gonna do a little hero mayhem, albeit a bit more controlled here.
Hmm. Checking the briefing here. Does ol' WMD know something unofficial? Well, it'll all come out.
Interesting chatter. Also, for an accounting office, this place sure doesn't have many desks or computers.
Ah, Arachnos warehouse. I would expect more "redside office".
Even though it's a special map the glowies are in the same place - the last computer is behind the giant pile of crates in the main room. Anybody else really want to be able to put things at specific points in a map?
Looks like I've grabbed the entire accounts receivaboo database. Operative Kornfeld will no doubt be swearing revenge.
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And now to kick the Council out of a cave to get a staging area for...
Well, if it wasn't important the dude wouldn't be throwing himself at Arachnos as a distraction, now would he?
This base looks like it's entirely staffed by 5th in cover. Be kind of amusing if there was this Man Who Was Thursday thing where everybody thought they were the only group of covert operatives.
Also, you might be able to work a good Santa recoloring of the standard uniform for the archon.
Okay, interesting feint going on here. My contact's going to burn this post to send Arachnos into high alert, and then we'll slip into--
Wait a second.
Won't that make it harder to get anywhere, or is this going to be an "anyone acting without explicit orders will be shot"-level alert?
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And now, to save one of my contact's contacts.
Murano seems to have been up on my contact's buddies, and she's been working the Isles so long she expects him not to stick his neck out to bail out one of his own.
Wow, what a short mission. The psychic ninja hardly got a chance to do anything.
Hmm. Okay, Murano's going to sweep up, which is fine, but she suspects my contact may not actually be planning what he's telling me.
My contact... is nowhere to be found.
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So I decide to head to his purported base of operations.
Arachnos have captured him.
He and his captor are the only things in the base, much like last mission. An elec melee/willpower EB is, uh, not exactly undermatched.
His discussion at the end feels a bit stilted and fake, like he's a freshman describing this whole affair after reading about it on Wikipedia. He sounds detached rather than personally involved, which is odd for the spearhead of this whole affair.
Here's a human touch: Kobushi's not entirely sure what he's planning to bring over because it's been so long he can't remember what you're supposed to do at Christmas. Played completely straight, it could work well.
Also I don't quite buy his justification. Recluse isn't going to round up Oakes and then flood the facility with a deadly neurotoxin because then he'll be too mad to do anything but seethe?
If that's supposed to show how naive he is, then it really does its job.
Also doing its job: this is step one of his grand plan to retake the Isles?
Actually that would, alternatively, explain why he sounds so detached. He's not actually personally invested in this. Christmas is something other people would enjoy so he's going to give it to them.
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I'm not quite sure what to make of this sentence in the next briefing: "Letting them get confiscated was the easiest way to get them past security, especially when one of my people on the inside was ready to postpone their destruction, thanks to those files you stole."
What did the files help with? Inserting the agent, since they didn't know who was working there? Stopping the trucks from being destroyed because the system isn't up anymore to process form 543/K, "Demolitions Ash Disposal Form"? Erasing all shipping manifests so the inside guy can spin a line of bull about why they can't destroy them?
("All I'm saying is, Dr. Aeon could have ordered all of this because he promised Recluse he could build an anti-Christmas ray and he wants to look busy. We've got no way to tell. Do YOU want to risk wrecking Dr. Aeon's research material?")
No inside guy in evidence, though. Just one boss and one glowie, neither of which drop a clue.
The souvenir letter is interesting, though the revelation comes out of nowhere. Maybe my contact's inside guy could be a Mu Adept ally or something of the sort.
I was hoping I'd get to defend some trucks in this mission. Ultimately I just hit the right levers inside the base and trust that things are working out okay on the outside.
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Storyline - **. Scirocco is a bit of a deus ex machina in all this. Reading the letter from him makes a lot of things make sense - why my contact could do something Longbow thinks is beyond his power, why this is what he's chosen to do despite having no great enthusiasm for Christmas, why Recluse really isn't just going to wreck all this anyway. (Based on the chatter around Mercy, it seems like Recluse suffers the underclass to live mostly because desperate people can occasionally do something interesting.)
It makes a lot of sense that Scirocco would do this in a roundabout way because of that whole ancient dread curse where everything he touches turns evil. He could also probably run interference of the "this guy paralyzed our whole defense network and only pulled this joke off, we should count our blessings" variety.
You might be able to reasonably work this in, even. Expand mission 3 a little, the Longbow psychic ninja also digs up information about this guy working with Scirocco, and she tells me to pretend I don't suspect anything until we know more about what's going on. Then before I rescue my contact I meet a "captive" Mu Guardian in the third map who just "spontaneously" decides not to attack me and drops a little more information on Scirocco's bona fides, maybe giving up some information about the cargo ship that's bringing all this that Longbow can also verify.
But as it is, this seems to be some crazy doomed endeavor that miraculously succeeds because, as we find out, someone else was backing it all along.
Design - ***. I know you say that two missions are very short (and honestly, I'd say that of the middle three), but that's a bit of a problem. Mostly because there's a decent amount of plot to be had in missions 3 and 4, but the complete lack of anything separating the plot events means it all hits in one solid and largely indigestible wad. It's given me an appreciation for how the generally mentally undemanding process of chewing through the rank and file can create some time to think about what's going on.
Gameplay - ****. I didn't exactly time it, but I'm pretty sure that missions 3 and 4 had roughly equivalent amounts of loading screen and actual gameplay. Not even unusually exciting or novel gameplay.
Detail - ****. My only complaint here is not really getting a look at the trucks or the supplies -- specifically in mission 5, but also a little more generally. I'm working on my contact's word that anything like what he's describing is actually happening, right up to the end.
Overall - ***. Even though deus ex machinas are practically de rigueur in your average Christmas special, that doesn't really help this one go down easier. The nigh-on plot singularity in mission 3 and 4 could also do with some filler.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
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This is something I keep meaning to change -- all references to "office" to "warehouse" -- and never get around to doing. I'm doing it right now. :P| Ah, Arachnos warehouse. I would expect more "redside office". |
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| Won't that make it harder to get anywhere, or is this going to be an "anyone acting without explicit orders will be shot"-level alert? |
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| Also I don't quite buy his justification. Recluse isn't going to round up Oakes and then flood the facility with a deadly neurotoxin because then he'll be too mad to do anything but seethe? |
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| Actually that would, alternatively, explain why he sounds so detached. He's not actually personally invested in this. Christmas is something other people would enjoy so he's going to give it to them. |
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| What did the files help with? Inserting the agent, since they didn't know who was working there? Stopping the trucks from being destroyed because the system isn't up anymore to process form 543/K, "Demolitions Ash Disposal Form"? Erasing all shipping manifests so the inside guy can spin a line of bull about why they can't destroy them? |
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| No inside guy in evidence, though. |
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| I was hoping I'd get to defend some trucks in this mission. |
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| Based on the chatter around Mercy, it seems like Recluse suffers the underclass to live mostly because desperate people can occasionally do something interesting. |
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| Mostly because there's a decent amount of plot to be had in missions 3 and 4, but the complete lack of anything separating the plot events means it all hits in one solid and largely indigestible wad. It's given me an appreciation for how the generally mentally undemanding process of chewing through the rank and file can create some time to think about what's going on. |
Thanks for the review!
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Recent comment on the arc:
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| Not bad, and an easy run. The EB/AV allies even make it too easy, probably, but at least those missions are short enough. Ambushes in final mission were also well within the limits of anyone paying attention, and you warned the player ahead of time that they'd be coming, anyway. A quaint take on good actions with eventual wicked intentions, and a cute souvenir. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
And another:
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| Feedback on Architect Mission The Christmas We Get: that was just plain fun, and the story content kept me intrigued. overall, well worth 5 stars. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Recent comment:
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| [Tell] 2010-12-08 22: 45:12 Message From @xxxxx : Feedback on Architect Mission The Christmas We Get: This is simply one of the finest Architect missions that I have ever played. Expertly crafted AE mission arc, made with loving detail, but also possessing some wonderful writing. It's a good STORY as well as a fun mission. I found myself laughing out loud here and there, only to be genuinely touched in the finale. My first five-star rating ever, and well worth it. You have my thanks. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
It nearly whupped us (two players, one of whom was really only level 14 or so), but very fun, and very rewarding. Good writing. When people gripe about AE, this is the kind of thing I wish they'd play through just to see the other side.
Arc ID: 356477
Keywords: Solo Friendly, Drama
Length: Long (5 missions)
First Published: 12/22/2009 08:01 AM
Morality: Heroic
Enemy Groups: Generic, Council, Arachnos
Description: Ramiel, a new player in the Rogue Isles, is looking for a hero's help for an operation against Arachnos. Longbow is looking for a volunteer to step forward, if only to find out if this newcomer is friend or foe. Are you that volunteer...? (No enemies above Boss rank.)
Notes: I just pulled an all-nighter writing this and haven't tested it extensively, so I can really use feedback. As it is a Christmas arc I probably won't leave it up very long, maybe until mid to late January, unless it gets DCed or HoF but I'm not betting on that.
Despite the scary warnings, you don't have to fight anything over Boss rank or any custom mobs. All the enemies are stock. It shouldn't be terribly difficult. As usual I was more interested in letting people experience the story than in trying to kill them.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"