Something is seriously wrong with 3D Sound
By
Call Me Awesome,
Posted on: 2009-11-28 10:18 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
I've had the exact same issue with my setup as well; so far I haven't found any solution other than to leave 3D sound disabled. My issue actually appeared on my old rig with a SB XFi Gamer card and has continued to the new Mobo with built in sound. I just figured COH didn't like something in my machine.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Huh... So then it may not be my audio drivers and setup, but something in the game? Odd. But then why start now? My hard drive died last Tuesday, but up until Monday CoH played fine, and everything in here is exactly the same. Even the replacement hard drive is identical to the one it replaced. Could drivers be doing this?|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
I've had the exact same issue with my setup as well; so far I haven't found any solution other than to leave 3D sound disabled. My issue actually appeared on my old rig with a SB XFi Gamer card and has continued to the new Mobo with built in sound. I just figured COH didn't like something in my machine.
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Here's something which might help - does anyone have any idea how I can test my speakers for surround? My motherboard used to have a built-in Realtek sound card, and its control centre had this sort of test which would just call out the channels, like Front Left, Centre, Front Right, Rear Right, etc. I can't seem to find a programme that does this anywhere in the Internet.
P.S. Can I call you Awesome?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Ok, I just went to Asus's site and DL'd the latest drivers for my onboard sound, which is SoundMax Digital HD audio, 7.1 setup. Enabling 3D audio in COH no longer gives the muffled, slow, low pitched sounds (yay) however I do randomly loose game sounds altogether. Opening the audio options and changing to non-3D then back to 3D fixes the problem for a few seconds to a few minutes.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Huh... So then it may not be my audio drivers and setup, but something in the game? Odd. But then why start now? My hard drive died last Tuesday, but up until Monday CoH played fine, and everything in here is exactly the same. Even the replacement hard drive is identical to the one it replaced. Could drivers be doing this?
Here's something which might help - does anyone have any idea how I can test my speakers for surround? My motherboard used to have a built-in Realtek sound card, and its control centre had this sort of test which would just call out the channels, like Front Left, Centre, Front Right, Rear Right, etc. I can't seem to find a programme that does this anywhere in the Internet. P.S. Can I call you Awesome? |
No problems at all with 3D audio in several other games I've tried... Mass Effect, Fallout 3, KOTOR 2, Champions Online. Unfortunately COH still doesn't like 3D audio on my rig.
It's strange, the new drivers fixed the bad sound issue, but somehow at random times I completely loose game sounds now. Heck, I'll stick with the non-3D game sounds, they work perfectly.
Re- the name, it dates back to when I first started playing COH... running around in AP as a baby blaster the civies would frequently say something like "You're Awesome!". After I got tired of getting killed as a newbie blaster who didn't know what he was doing I rolled a tank... at that point the name seemed an obvious choice.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Are you in Gaming Mode? Linkie.
Or do you have this card - Other Linkie.
Do you have a microphone? If yes, connected or not?
K5K - The Killbot 5000
A Spanner In The Works Part One, ArcID: 336662, A Spanner In The Works Part Two, ArcID: 336665, Enter Japes, ArcID: 96001
In The Darkness Creeping, ArcID: 347709, When Dimensions Collide, ArcID: 412416.
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Huh... Well, the guy from the repair shop said he'd gotten everything he could off of Creative's site, so I don't know. It's possible I'd need new drivers, because I AM missing my original Creative Control Centre. Instead, I have this Creative Audio Control Panel.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Ok, I just went to Asus's site and DL'd the latest drivers for my onboard sound, which is SoundMax Digital HD audio, 7.1 setup. Enabling 3D audio in COH no longer gives the muffled, slow, low pitched sounds (yay) however I do randomly loose game sounds altogether. Opening the audio options and changing to non-3D then back to 3D fixes the problem for a few seconds to a few minutes.
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Here's the thing, though... I read up on the X-Fi Extreme Audio, and everyone keeps saying it's not actually an X-Fi card, in that it doesn't have the X-Fi chip, but rather that it's basically a repackage of the Audigy card, and someone even suggested using Audigy drivers. Here's the thing - I AM a tech guy, but Creative is the bane of my technical knowledge. Nothing of theirs I've ever tried to get work has ever worked. The only way any of my Creative cards over the years have worked is if someone else installs drivers for them. For me, it has been completely impossible to so much as FIND drivers for Creative products at all, let alone the right ones. So I would REALLY hate to have to go around fiddling with my drivers, even with restore points.
That, and while it may be an Audigy card, it still has X-Fi options enabled on it. I don't know what these options actually are... But I'm not sure messing with older drivers is smart, just the same. I don't actually know a whole lot about audio technology (don't even know what EAX is), but if the X-Fi stuff is what I think it is, I keep all of that stuff OFF. The Stereo Xpand option does something to my sound which I can't identify, but that I know I hate, and the Crystalliser option is just stupid, as it looks like just a glorified equaliser. Wait... Crystalliser... Equiliser... Right, I get it. Either way, I don't need my sound to be made "more punchy." I need it to take up less CPU memory, which Extreme Audio apparently doesn't help with.
I really hate it when I go down into manufacturer hell...
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Ack! I'm an idiot! This post was made while I was responding and I never saw it!
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No, because I don't have that control panel programme. Would you have any idea where I can download it? That's the on I was using before, but I can't find it now.|
Originally Posted by The_Killbot_5000
Are you in Gaming Mode? Linkie.
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| Or do you have this card - Other Linkie. |
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| Do you have a microphone? If yes, connected or not? |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Enable EAX 3D Sound...?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_audio_extensions
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EU @Coolio
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Versions of EAX EAX has had many iterations, each with an increasing number of features. Below is an overview of the currently available versions of EAX and their added features in respect to the previous version. EAX 1.0
EAX 2.0 was used in Sound Blaster Live! sound cards.
EAX 3.0 was used in Sound Blaster Audigy sound cards.
EAX 4.0 is present in Sound Blaster Audigy 2 sound cards.
EAX 5.0 is present in Sound Blaster X-Fi sound cards.
According to Creative's OpenAL 1.1 specification, EAX should be considered deprecated as developer interface. New development should use OpenAL's EFX interface, which covers all the EAX functionality and is more tightly coupled with the overall OpenAL framework.[2] |
Nuff Said...
Coolio Wolfus leader of Coolio�s Crusaders on Union.
Tekna Logik leader of Tekna�s Tormentors on Defiant.
Creator of: Coolio's Tech Beacon Replacements
AE arc 402506, 'The Rise and Demise or Otherwise of Tekna Logik...'.
I'm not sure what you mean. If you're asking if I have my EAX enabled, then the answer is no. I don't, and never have, not even back when my sound was working fine. And, really, unless a game specifically offers EAX support through its in-game options, enabling it from my sound card just makes my whole PC sound like I'm playing on the can. Seriously, it actually has a "bathroom" preset.
But, no, I don't have it on. Could this really be the problem?
*edit*
I just caught your PMs. I'll have a look through the links as soon as I get home. That would be, ideally, in about three hours.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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You said in your original post that you have an Xtreme Audio. Make sure about that; is it Xtreme Music, Xtreme Gamer, or Xtreme Audio?
Music and Gamer are identical cards, with Gamer using a cheaper PCB if I recall correctly. They both boast full X-Fi power. On the other hand, the Xtreme Audio isn't really a sound card like an Audigy or X-Fi. Instead, it's a rebadged Audigy SE, which is little more than something you can plug your speakers into. Everything it does is in software (read: done by your CPU). It's a really, very cheap and nasty thing, wearing the name of something much better.
If you can't get it working by installing the latest drivers, you're out of luck. I can suggest that you get yourself an Xtreme Gamer, or perhaps an ASUS Xonar DX. The Xonar sound cards are the only cards out there to compete well with the X-Fi line.
EDIT: I just did a test with 3D sound in CoH, and I remembered why I didn't have the thing enabled in the first place. All ambient noise and all sounds generated by your character sound like they're coming from inside your head. The 3D sound system bases positional effects around your character, not your camera. If something is between you and your character, it will sound like it's behind you. If an enemy is to the very left of your character, it will sound like it's to the left of you, even though both the enemy and your character are right in front of you.
It's really jarring.
Necrobond - 50 BS/Inv Scrapper made in I1
Rickar - 50 Bots/FF Mastermind
Anti-Muon - 42 Warshade
Ivory Sicarius - 45 Crab Spider
Aber ja, nat�rlich Hans nass ist, er steht unter einem Wasserfall.
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So says Everest. Besides, I know what it is. I thought it was some kind of super-awesome futuristic sound card, but that just shows how much I know. Crap...|
Originally Posted by Necrotron
You said in your original post that you have an Xtreme Audio. Make sure about that; is it Xtreme Music, Xtreme Gamer, or Xtreme Audio?
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| If you can't get it working by installing the latest drivers, you're out of luck. I can suggest that you get yourself an Xtreme Gamer, or perhaps an ASUS Xonar DX. The Xonar sound cards are the only cards out there to compete well with the X-Fi line. |
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EDIT: I just did a test with 3D sound in CoH, and I remembered why I didn't have the thing enabled in the first place. All ambient noise and all sounds generated by your character sound like they're coming from inside your head. The 3D sound system bases positional effects around your character, not your camera. If something is between you and your character, it will sound like it's behind you. If an enemy is to the very left of your character, it will sound like it's to the left of you, even though both the enemy and your character are right in front of you. It's really jarring. |
I'll have a look at the drivers now.
*edit*
Oh, great... The Creative auto-update says I have a "PCI Express SB X-Fi Xtreme Audio." That's... That's bad, right?
*edit*
Nope. Installed new drivers, nothing changed. Same slowdown, same nonsense. I even got a trobleshooting utility from Creative, and it says everything is all right. I think it's high time I hit up customer support. At least now it's Monday.
*edit*
What the hell?!? I try to ask a question, and I can't ask a question about City of Heroes US? I get defaulted to Europe? Guys... You have no idea how hard I have to hold back right now to avoid dropping a bunch of F-Bombs! I own the GOD DAMN US VERSION! Let me ask for support about it!
So... What do I do?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yes. Xtreme Audio is bad. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
So says Everest. Besides, I know what it is. I thought it was some kind of super-awesome futuristic sound card, but that just shows how much I know. Crap...
Would that it were as simple. I'd do something about this, but I fear for the cost, and I'd probably be looking at upgrading my video card for Going Rogue at some point. Probably not now, though, as I want to see what'll come out in the next 6-8 months before Going Rogue launches. Incidentally, how much does a REAL X-Fi card go for? It's very hard to get used to, yes. The "Doppler effect" is what gets me the most, that dumbing down and muting of specific sounds. But, yeah, for some reason, the surround is centred around he character and follows his direction, so someone to the side of him swinging makes it feel like I should pan around and look at what's under my camera. I don't play over-the-shoulder, either. I play four mouse rolls back (I really need to figure out how far that is in camdist unitus), so it's especially jarring. But then, at the same time, it IS 3D sound, which is still better than a flat stereo. I'll have a look at the drivers now. *edit* Oh, great... The Creative auto-update says I have a "PCI Express SB X-Fi Xtreme Audio." That's... That's bad, right? *edit* Nope. Installed new drivers, nothing changed. Same slowdown, same nonsense. I even got a trobleshooting utility from Creative, and it says everything is all right. I think it's high time I hit up customer support. At least now it's Monday. *edit* What the hell?!? I try to ask a question, and I can't ask a question about City of Heroes US? I get defaulted to Europe? Guys... You have no idea how hard I have to hold back right now to avoid dropping a bunch of F-Bombs! I own the GOD DAMN US VERSION! Let me ask for support about it! So... What do I do? |
Whelp, a beefy X-Fi goes for £70 ish. An ASUS Xonar DX goes for £50. Both offer pretty much the same featureset, both will drive EAX, both handle DirectSound and EAX within Windows Vista (though Xonar software doesn't need you to define every game), and both have driver interfaces with more tacky bitmaps than a '90s website.
In truth, I'd just disable 3D sound. Hell, I have a sound card that supports it, and I can't bear it.
For other games though, it's Awesome. Both the Xonar and X-Fi support technology that lets them simulate surround sound using regular headphones. The technical term is HRTF (Head related transfer function), which is a posh acronym for a lot of complicated formulas about how sound reflects off of your head. In the real world, sounds bounce off objects and around your head before reaching your ears. Sounds to the left of you are picked up in the right ear.
With HRTF, rather than stuffing one channel into an ear, a much more realistic recreation of how real sound works is given. Sounds are in front of you, to the side of you, behind you, even above and below you. I find this to be clearer and more precise than even the best surround sound system.
Necrobond - 50 BS/Inv Scrapper made in I1
Rickar - 50 Bots/FF Mastermind
Anti-Muon - 42 Warshade
Ivory Sicarius - 45 Crab Spider
Aber ja, nat�rlich Hans nass ist, er steht unter einem Wasserfall.
I don't have Vista. Not yet. Maybe some time soon.
Hmm... £70. That's not very little, but it does actually sound pretty good. I'll stick to what I have for the moment and see if I can look at something more when I get a new video card.
Thanks for the help, guys. Any idea how I can file a support ticket if I can't select the version of the game I actually own?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hi Sam, the reason I asked about the microphone was because the mp3's you linked sounded like it was feeding back the sound it was hearing through the microphone from the speakers as it was played. Of course this may be the *way too easy* solution, but it's what I would have tried first.
K5K - The Killbot 5000
A Spanner In The Works Part One, ArcID: 336662, A Spanner In The Works Part Two, ArcID: 336665, Enter Japes, ArcID: 96001
In The Darkness Creeping, ArcID: 347709, When Dimensions Collide, ArcID: 412416.
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I always keep my microphone muted (and it comes muted by default), to prevent just this problem. The sound card gets microphone input, it just doesn't play it over the speakers. With the way my speakers and microphone are set up, I get horrid sound feedback just as soon as I unmute it, so I keep it constantly off.|
Originally Posted by The_Killbot_5000
Hi Sam, the reason I asked about the microphone was because the mp3's you linked sounded like it was feeding back the sound it was hearing through the microphone from the speakers as it was played. Of course this may be the *way too easy* solution, but it's what I would have tried first.
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As well, that's not actually sound feedback that I recorded. That's actually the regular /em whistle at around one eighth the speed. I actually checked. I sped it up eight times, and it sounds almost exactly like the regular whistle. Everything is like this with 3D sound turned on, even something as simple as the bells on the Buy/Sell buttons at vendors. Normally, you just hear bells. With 3D sound on, you hear each individual high and low, because it's so slow.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I finally broke down and I might be looking at getting a new sound card altogether. I'm not looking at something ultra-expensive, but just more decent than that damn Xtreme Audio. For the moment, I seem to be looking at the Xtreme Gamer. Would that be a good choice?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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OK, I had to do a complete reformat and reinstall from scratch, and now I can't seem to get 3D Sound to work in City of Heroes almost at all. I have a Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio card, and the guy from the company who repaired my computer said he'd gotten all the drivers and utilities for it on it. And for the most part, it seems to work. I have it set to 5.1 speakers, I have it set to Stereo Surround and have all the crap like Crystalisers and EAX turned off because I don't like them messing with my sound modulation.
But in-game, it just doesn't work. With 3D Sound disabled, I get decent sound, and it's kind of stereo, kinda' sorta'. But it's not surround. Before I lost my hard drive, I used to play with 3D Sound turned on, which says it enables surround and "Doppler effect." Huh. I guess that's what makes the sound feel a bit weird, but not by much. Here's the thing, though - it completely destroys my sound. At first I thought it was playing my subwoofer out of my centre speaker, but no. It actually slows sound down a LOT. I recorded a clip of me doing the whistle emote, and I had to speed it up EIGHT TIMES (400% and then 200% over that) before it actually sounded like anything the game would produce.
In fact, why don't I just show you? I recorded a regular /em whistle with 3D Sound turned on, and then the same with 3D Sound turned off. I couldn't quite find a location without background noise, but it should be minimal. Here are the links, straight to the MP3s:
Whistle with no 3D Sound
Whistle with 3D Sound
Would anyone know what the heck is going on here? Is it my setup that's at fault? both with 3D sound turned on AND off, I can only hear the whistle emote on my centre and front speakers, but my rear speakers still play environment sounds, like summoning zombies or a humming Tar Patch, as well as the omnipresent drone that's to be heard all throughout the game. And this problem isn't actually constant. Sometimes when I open my Options menu, the game will sort of freeze for a millisecond and then magically the sound would become good without me changing anything. But as soon as I turn 3D Sound off and then on again, or log out of the game, it's back to being terrible, and I've no idea what I'm doing to affect this.
Halp!