Fire/SD Scrapper - Attack Chain numbers


BrokenPrey

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
Werner: I'm curious about the order of attacks in this chain. I'm running about the same recharge numbers as you have there, except for Cremate which is under 4.5 seconds and Fire Sword which is close to 3 seconds, and I've been running a chain of Incinerate, GFS, Cremate, FS. I don't notice any gaps in the chain, but would I be better off changing the attack order?
Continue running the chain exactly as you have it. You have the correct order for burst damage. I was merely repeating the order I was given rather than initiating a burst damage discussion. The order makes no difference for required recharge or for DPS.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Continue running the chain exactly as you have it. You have the correct order for burst damage. I was merely repeating the order I was given rather than initiating a burst damage discussion. The order makes no difference for required recharge or for DPS.
Awesome, thanks! That's what I kinda thought, just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something there.

Now if I can just figure out how to fix my Fire/SD with the upcoming BotZ nerf...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
Awesome, thanks! That's what I kinda thought, just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something there.

Now if I can just figure out how to fix my Fire/SD with the upcoming BotZ nerf...

BotZ nerf?!

What now?


 

Posted

Oh, nm, I see it now.

Hrrrm. (shrug)

Not that huge a deal.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Continue running the chain exactly as you have it. You have the correct order for burst damage. I was merely repeating the order I was given rather than initiating a burst damage discussion. The order makes no difference for required recharge or for DPS.
Might that help in a pylon run though? As far as doing more burst damage between regen ticks and resulting in a faster time?


 

Posted

The order wont matter in a long fight


 

Posted

In a long fight, you likely want to hit Build Up as soon as it has recharged. Now, if your recharge just happens to be such that it's up right before you start that chain again, then yes, running in that order will help your DPS a little, mostly because you get a second shot at your two biggest attacks during the Build Up. But my recharge on Build Up has never been that finely tuned. I click it when it's up. Actually, I'm lazier than that. I click it when it rhythmically makes sense, which is totally lame, but it keeps my fingers from getting confused. My fingers confuse easily. They like repetitive motion.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
In a long fight, you likely want to hit Build Up as soon as it has recharged. Now, if your recharge just happens to be such that it's up right before you start that chain again, then yes, running in that order will help your DPS a little, mostly because you get a second shot at your two biggest attacks during the Build Up. But my recharge on Build Up has never been that finely tuned. I click it when it's up. Actually, I'm lazier than that. I click it when it rhythmically makes sense, which is totally lame, but it keeps my fingers from getting confused. My fingers confuse easily. They like repetitive motion.
Coming from another DM/SR that solo'd Nemesis like yourself, I know all about the finger confusion. Luckily my build up is ready right as I finish my chain usually. I'm working in some more recharge on my fire/wp's build up and global to help dps.


 

Posted

I'm currently running the Incinerate -> Scorch -> Cremate -> Scorch chain and it's fine.

I'm wondering if there is a better chain out there given the amount of recharge I have in my build. I've got 70% global + hasten.

The only issue is, w/out changing the flavor of my build (which I don't really want to do as I'd have to give up something major), the chain needs to be a 3 power chain with either Scorch or FS cause I've only got room for 3 single target attacks in my build. The only other attack the chain could use is Fire Blast from the epic.


 

Posted

Incinerate (+204% recharge, 2.90 seconds) -> Cremate (+134%, 3.03) -> Fire Sword (+69%, 3.56). Here's the comparison between your current chain, that chain, and the top DPS chain:

DPS EPS DPE
73.6 4.06 18.1 Incinerate -> Scorch -> Cremate -> Scorch
78.4 4.32 18.1 Incinerate -> Cremate -> Fire Sword
81.8 4.63 17.7 Incinerate -> Cremate -> Greater Fire Sword

So you get DPS much closer to the top chain without losing the endurance efficiency you're currently enjoying. It's a great chain. Unfortunately, when Hasten drops, you're likely going to end up with a half second gap, even if you have tons of recharge in Incinerate itself. That'll last for 16 seconds out of 136 seconds, during which you'll be at 69.5 DPS... and yeah, it still beats your current chain by plenty. Sounds like a good idea to me.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Posted

Thanks so much, that's exactly the info I needed. I really can't afford a chain that uses more endurance given my current build so Incinerate -> Cremate -> Fire Sword is just what the doctor ordered.

I may be able to squeeze out another 20% recharge which will save me about 7ish seconds off my hasten downtime. Not sure it'd be worth the 800ish million it will cost me. My rough math says it will gain me about .5 DPS (factoring in the reduced hasten downtime, not the reduced Incinerate time since it's such a small change).


 

Posted

Well, it WILL use more endurance than your current chain (0.26 endurance per second more unslotted, less as slotted). What I meant by endurance efficiency is the amount of damage done per point of endurance. The extra damage will cost you in the neighborhood of running an additional toggle. On the other hand, better to run that chain and simply slow down if necessary than to run a slower chain.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Incinerate (+204% recharge, 2.90 seconds) -> Cremate (+134%, 3.03) -> Fire Sword (+69%, 3.56). Here's the comparison between your current chain, that chain, and the top DPS chain:
Your numbers are a little off.

Cremate ACT=1.716
Fire Sword ACT=1.584
So Incinerate would need to recharge in 3.3 seconds

Incinerate ACT=1.848
Fire Sword ACT=1.584
So Cremate would need to recharge in 3.432 seconds

You had the right +recharge just not the right amount of time it needed to recarge in.


"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey View Post
Your numbers are a little off.

Cremate ACT=1.716
Fire Sword ACT=1.584
So Incinerate would need to recharge in 3.3 seconds

Incinerate ACT=1.848
Fire Sword ACT=1.584
So Cremate would need to recharge in 3.432 seconds

You had the right +recharge just not the right amount of time it needed to recarge in.
Yeah, oops. I had the Incinerate -> Cremate -> Scorch chain just beneath it in my spreadsheet, and copied down the recharge time numbers from it instead somehow.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Well, it WILL use more endurance than your current chain (0.26 endurance per second more unslotted, less as slotted). What I meant by endurance efficiency is the amount of damage done per point of endurance. The extra damage will cost you in the neighborhood of running an additional toggle. On the other hand, better to run that chain and simply slow down if necessary than to run a slower chain.
Duh, right. Read Ice, read! 4.06 vs 4.32

I can deal with that...I think.