Damage over time Power Set


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
If you want, I can find other examples, and see if there are other numbers out there (and so could you).

Let's try Tankers (10-second recharge attacks):

Incinerate: 111.2 damage over 4.6 seconds

Jawbreaker: 87.2 damage

Greater Ice Sword: 87.2 damage

Siphon Life: 87.2 Damage

Gash: 87.2 Damage


111.2/87.2 = 1.275

Now, that's a 27.5% increase due to being a DoT over burst damage (though one could also say that it's in part due to Fire's secondary effect being damage, and the lateness that it comes in the set, but we'll use it for now).

If somebody wants to help me out with Blaster numbers, that would be great. I wasn't able to find a Blaster DoT effect that wasn't either front-loaded or had a very, very short DoT effect.
The actual reason we have been told as to why Incinerate deals more damage than the other equal cost attacks is because of the method in which Castle has decided to balance out DoT attacks: any damage more than 3 seconds after the initial strike is considered "free". Incinerate gets an extra 27.5% damage because it takes 4.6 seconds as opposed to 3.6 seconds (the effect is initially applied .6 seconds after the power activates) to deal all of its damage. The additional 27.5% damage is then ignored by the damage formula in order to account for the lack of burst capability.

Honestly, as much as I tend to disagree with Stormfront on matters of game and set design, it could be possible to generate a set that operates heavily on the use of DoTs in order to apply the effects. I wouldn't make all of the damage completely DoT dependent, especially on an AT that counts on immediate damage for a large portion of its survivability, but allowing for 50% of the damage to be up front and the other 50% to be delayed over the next 6-10 seconds would allow for the greater damend and rech) ratio that would allow for greater overall DPS but lower burst damage capability while preserving the ability to inflict damage quickly enough to actually take out targets.

The biggest problem I'd still imagine would be a lack of thematic unity. With absolute diversity of damage types, you wouldn't really be able to generate a sensible theme without delving into something origin specific (re: Wand/Orb or Gadgets). It might make more sense if there was a primary damage type chosen for all of the powers and then a second damage type was picked for specific powers to flesh them out more fully, though I still wouldn't allow for the complete plethora of damage types to be accessed without some excellent comic book logic backing it up.

As for ideas to improve the set, beyond what critiques I've already given, it might be an interesting option to provide each power with an additional control/debuff effect that provides a small benefit based upon the presence of an existing DoT on that target. It would be similar to the combo system but different enough to maintain uniqueness while simultaneously providing the Blaster set with the ability to slightly prolong its lifespan through naturally occurring means so that it can actually capitalize on the additional benefits of the DoTs.

For example, power 1 deals however much extra damage over the next 6 seconds; power 2 deals a similar amount of extra damage over the next 10 seconds and, if used while the target is suffering from the extra damage of power 1, subjects the target to a 10 second -dam debuff; power 1 would only have its additional benefit when used while the target is suffering under the effects of power 3, which only grants the additional benefit while the target is under the effects of power 6, and so on.

It would generate natural attack strings within the set to capitalize upon the debuffs that the player finds most useful or tactically beneficial and, because of the simplicity of it (re: the powers only depend upon a single other power for the effect rather than a series of mode activation/deactivation as is done with Dual Blades), it would allow for interesting tactical manipulation of the benefits in question.

The only problem I can imagine is that I'm not entirely sure it's possible for powers to check for the presence of existing effects upon a target, but, I believe it might be possible, as seen with the Mystic Fortune buff.


 

Posted

In the OP's defense to some criticism about his/her first post...

Thats how most things get done...someone gets a "basic" idea to share with everyone and then if everyone likes the idea they ALL brainstorm over the final details.

Not every idea is clear cut and to the point...such as shows for instance...someone gets a main idea and proposes it...then they get a staff of writers to write out all the details to make actual episodes.

Just because someone doesn't have the idea down to a T doesn't mean they shouldn't share the idea and hope other like minded people could help shell out the details.


 

Posted

The way I see it, the only way to make a DoT set viable is to either up the damage ticks or drop the recharge time so that your spamming DoTs. Either way, you come dangerously close to being over-powered.


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar View Post
Just something I have to point out:
you said you would deal "more damage that straight DPS"..

You obviously don't know WTF DPS means.
Damage Per Second

If you deal more damage than a straight 'DPS' char.. that makes you.. a straight DPS char

Tha aside.. naw, I'm fine with DOT as a secondary effect.
I think what he meant is "Damage over time" vs. "Instant full damage effect" (or straight damage) on a DPS class. DPS means damage per second, but is often used to just refer to a class or power set that is meant to hurt stuff. Every single class in the game deals some sort of DPS, but as you know we don't call them DPS classes. It's not their "job", so to speak.

To say that damage over time is worse is just plain wrong. Anyone who has played WoW will attest to the insane damage of Warlocks. The thing is, they are given methods of survivability that blasters don't often get. That being said, for a damage over time build to be more effective than a straight damage build, there would need to be survival methods, which is why I would rather suggest a DoT attack set to scrappers. With the ability to last during that melting HP would be of great benefit to the scrapper. Also, when DoTs are used in games, they are always better in overall damage than burst/instant damage attacks BECAUSE you have to wait for them.

FYI, fire is not a DoT build. It is as strong as all the other blast sets on the first hit, then has a chance of more damage over time. To call Fire Blast a DoT set just because it has a chance of DoTs is like calling War Mace a controller set because it has a chance of stun.

As much as I'd love for a blaster with this kind of set, I can't see a way they could survive quite as long as would be necessary for the set to show it's true power. For a scrapper/brute/tanker, maybe I could see it working. Possibly even a defender, granted they'd probably need a team. On that note, teaming would make this power set incredibly powerful, potentially too much so. Why would the blaster need the survival ability of a Warlock when he has a team's support? Even so, it can't "only" be balanced for teams, which is why I suggest a melee class getting something like this.

That being said, I would love to see some actual powers listed for a set like this. Perhaps a corrosive acid blast set or a bleeding damage set for melee that deals little to no initial damage but leeches HP for an extended duration. More elaboration might get the ball rolling.


 

Posted

What about a Healing over Time set???

I've been begging for one of these for the longest time. I even asked that Radiation Emissions: Radiant Aura and Thermal: Warmth be given a higher overall heal but a trickle of smaller numbers, so that it can stand out from Empathy: Healing Aura.

To have a healing set designed around the idea of slower but more sustained and powerful healing would be a healthy addition to the game. Every other MMO seems to have some of this but CoH. Disciples of Kane and Warrior Priests in Warhammer are fine examples, except that they have to be dealing damage for it to take place. Resto Druids from WoW have healing over time down to an art. I'm not saying +Regen, I mean actual heal numbers trickling over heads of teammates when you cast on them.

Make them stackable like attack DoTs are, but not to the point of being overpowered. I mean, endurance costs alone should limit that from being an issue. Cast too many HoTs on the tank and he'll never die... that is until you spammed to the point of bottoming out your end bar and now he has none, lol. They'd have to scale the cost to the amount healed to do this. Even though Heal Other would do less, it would do it sooner and cheaper. Same with Healing Aura. Maybe give the set one heal that isn't over time, but maybe isn't as strong, but is just as filler in the event of a powerful sudden hit, then has a tinier trickle of health after (like a fire blast move dealing a small DoT after). You could even incorporate a move that drains slowly the HP of a target enemy and passes similar values to the people around you.

Since there is already defender sets themed around ice, fire, general healing (empathy), dark, energy (kinetics/sound), and radiation, I figured this one could be focused on nature, earth, or psychic.

For example, an earth related build could draw energy from the Earth to heal your teammates over time or fortify them and give them various rock armors.

A psychic set could use soothing mental projections and emanations to promote the body's natural healing processes. This could include heal over time, an HP buff, a general resistance barrier (like sonic dispersion), and potentially redirected damage on teammates (reduced damage on people near the anchor by 25%, but the anchor receives that passed damage).

I've made suggestions in the New Power Suggestion forums for stuff like this before, but felt maybe I should mention it here. Gotta advertise where you can, right?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon099 View Post
What about a Healing over Time set???
Found it

If you want something more literally akin to HoT in other games, look at [Soothing Aura]


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt