Well, overall, I think you did a pretty great job there.
If you don't have people around you giving you the self-buff to defense that Phalanx gives you, then either you're on a small-ish team, and won't need to worry about the last 5% or so, or you're on a larger team and should have enough support with you to make it of no concern to you anyways.
So I wouldn't worry about it too much. Your build should be fine for everything that you come across. Could it be optimized probably? Sure. Will it work just fine how you've got it? Definitely. 
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
Thanks for the extremely fast reply |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, overall, I think you did a pretty great job there.
If you don't have people around you giving you the self-buff to defense that Phalanx gives you, then either you're on a small-ish team, and won't need to worry about the last 5% or so, or you're on a larger team and should have enough support with you to make it of no concern to you anyways. So I wouldn't worry about it too much. Your build should be fine for everything that you come across. Could it be optimized probably? Sure. Will it work just fine how you've got it? Definitely. |
Yeah, the only reason I really got paranoid about my defenses w/o PF was because of another thread on SD where someone responded about the importance of making sure your defenses were capped w/o PF since someone might not always be right next to you, and I was like "oh crap", but I think with the amount of mitigation SM gives me in addition to SD, and like you said the support I get from others on my team it shouldn't be a big deal.
Quote:
I think a lot of people in the Tanker forums like to be able to stand alone in 8-man spawns without support. But isn't that what a team is for? There's certainly nothing wrong with that opinion, it's just not one I share. The team can definitely help you do your job without making you not a Tanker.|
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
Thanks for the extremely fast reply
Yeah, the only reason I really got paranoid about my defenses w/o PF was because of another thread on SD where someone responded about the importance of making sure your defenses were capped w/o PF since someone might not always be right next to you, and I was like "oh crap", but I think with the amount of mitigation SM gives me in addition to SD, and like you said the support I get from others on my team it shouldn't be a big deal. |
You will take more damage than if you were at the soft cap on your own, that's not a question here. You will be fine though, so it probably doesn't matter.
If you had said that you were trying for the soft-cap without any friends in range of PF, then we'd have a different situation, and one that we could definitely help you remedy. But I think that you'll do fine with the build you have presented!
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
If you want to soft cap without anyone in range of PF an easy way to accomplish that is by trading the ToD in Stone Fist for a set of Mako's Bite and trade the Obliteration in one of your AOE's for Scirocco's Dervish... that change puts you at 44.6% Melee, 46.2% Range and 42.5% AOE. It's also considerably cheaper on the wallet, but if you're slotting the LotG recharge IO's that apparently isn't an issue with you.
Another choice is going with Combat Jumping/Super Jump for travel... that one change will soft cap you if you slot all your defenses to ED cap and only slot the Steadfast unique.
If I could make a suggestion... you may want to three slot Active Defense so you can double stack it, and finding room for Grant Cover is also a good idea. That will greatly increase your resistance to defense debuffs. Also, if you exemp below your recharge bonuses or get hit by a slow your mez protection won't be perma anymore.
Personally I've found One with the Shield to be a great addition to my protections on my BS/Shield scrapper; it's just the ticket for absorbing a really tough alpha strike. A 2 minute duration resistance/hp buff with a substantial, but manageable, end crash is a useful tool to have. I probably wouldn't get it at 32, but I'd find a way to get it sometime.
There's always powers we really want that simply won't fit; an optimized build is by definition going to be very tight and one person's optimal build won't necessarily be the same as another's.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Quote:
It's not so much that I want to so much as someone else made it seem like it was required for any high-end SD build, but if I can do it without sacrificing too much elsewhere I might as well, right? The more beastly my tank is the better |
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
If you want to soft cap without anyone in range of PF an easy way to accomplish that is by trading the ToD in Stone Fist for a set of Mako's Bite and trade the Obliteration in one of your AOE's for Scirocco's Dervish... that change puts you at 44.6% Melee, 46.2% Range and 42.5% AOE. It's also considerably cheaper on the wallet, but if you're slotting the LotG recharge IO's that apparently isn't an issue with you.
Another choice is going with Combat Jumping/Super Jump for travel... that one change will soft cap you if you slot all your defenses to ED cap and only slot the Steadfast unique. |
Also, I did mention CJ/SJ as a way to get more defense, but if I want to keep Hasten as well that means I need to dump an additional power, and being the recharge junkie that I am I AM taking Hasten no matter what, and with how tight my power choices were just taking SS as my travel power as well seemed to be the most economical method.
One question though...PF says it gives 3.48% defense per person in range on the info tab on mid's, yet when I go to effects it says it gives 8.48%, and when I toggle it off my positional defenses go down by 8.48%. What's the deal here? Is mid's bugged? Does PF give a minimum amount of defense all the time? This has really confused me.
Quote:
| If I could make a suggestion... you may want to three slot Active Defense so you can double stack it, and finding room for Grant Cover is also a good idea. That will greatly increase your resistance to defense debuffs. Also, if you exemp below your recharge bonuses or get hit by a slow your mez protection won't be perma anymore. |
Of course, over 60% global recharge is probably overkill anyway...
After looking over some other SD builds I did consider taking Grant Cover, but I had always heard it wasn't nearly as useful a power for tankers as it is for Scrappers/Brutes, mainly because the only real benefit you get from the power is the debuff resistance. I always saw the defense buff to teammates a bit superfluous since as a tank if I'm not getting hit by everything I'm not doing my job, in which case my survivability is largely the only survivability that matters, and as such I wasn't too thrilled about taking a power where I really only benefit from 50% of its effects, although I'm sure Defense Debuff resistance is very useful on a defense oriented set.
I guess I could drop Conserve Power/Physical Perfection and take CJ/SJ and Grant Cover, and i'd still get to keep Hasten too though I wouldn't get to take it until late in the build.
Quote:
|
Personally I've found One with the Shield to be a great addition to my protections on my BS/Shield scrapper; it's just the ticket for absorbing a really tough alpha strike. A 2 minute duration resistance/hp buff with a substantial, but manageable, end crash is a useful tool to have. I probably wouldn't get it at 32, but I'd find a way to get it sometime. There's always powers we really want that simply won't fit; an optimized build is by definition going to be very tight and one person's optimal build won't necessarily be the same as another's. |
All in all thanks for the suggestions CMA
HAHAHAHAHAHA, omg this is awesome...
I pretty much just figured out how to soft cap my defenses without PF without really giving up ANYTHING to do it...basically I took all of your suggestions CMA, but I also 6-slotted Build Up with GFC which gave me a 2.5% boost to all my positional defenses...
Now without PF I have 45.3% melee defense, 46.8% ranged defense, and 43.1% aoe defense.
The only thing I really give up is recovery and regen but that's mainly from not having Physical Perfection anymore. I am slightly concerned that my recovery is a bit on the low side (2.92/s), but I remember reading that the +end proc is equal to about 0.2 end/s, so that puts my "average" recovery I guess at around 3.12/s.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(15), ResDam-I(43), ResDam-I(43)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(13), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Dam%(34)
Level 2: True Grit -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(3), Numna-Heal(3), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(17), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(17), ImpArm-ResDam(33)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(15)
Level 6: Heavy Mallet -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 8: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 10: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(45)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(34), Mrcl-Rcvry+(34), RgnTis-Regen+(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 22: Fault -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(23), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(23), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(37), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(40)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Oblit-%Dam(31)
Level 28: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 30: Tough -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), TtmC'tng-ResDam(31)
Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(33)
Level 35: Tremor -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(36), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(36), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(39), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(39), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(40), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(42), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(42), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(42), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(43), Zinger-Dam%(46)
Level 44: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 47: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Quote:
Yep, PF grants a 5% (for tanks anyway) defense buff base plus the additional per person you're seeing. That's why you see the 8.48% with it set to one ally in melee. When you're alone you'll have the 5% (unenhanceable unfortunately) defense.|
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
One question though...PF says it gives 3.48% defense per person in range on the info tab on mid's, yet when I go to effects it says it gives 8.48%, and when I toggle it off my positional defenses go down by 8.48%. What's the deal here? Is mid's bugged? Does PF give a minimum amount of defense all the time? This has really confused me.
|
Once it matures Shield is a great set... you're going to face some growing pains though. I've taken a shield scrapper all the way and am currently working on a Shield/Fire tank... the set feels very squishy until you get your defenses above 30% or so. I know that at 24 my tank is still a bit... questionable for serious tanking. On the other hand my 50 BS/Shield scrapper is a quite capable tank so I know the set will mature quite nicely. If a shield scrapper can easily main tank an ITF I'd say a shield tank should be just fine.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Quote:
So basically when I turn off PF in mid's just add 5% to my defenses. Well dang now I've got a bit of a defense surplus xD but at least I'll be capped at AoE defense as well...|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Yep, PF grants a 5% (for tanks anyway) defense buff base plus the additional per person you're seeing. That's why you see the 8.48% with it set to one ally in melee. When you're alone you'll have the 5% (unenhanceable unfortunately) defense.
Once it matures Shield is a great set... you're going to face some growing pains though. I've taken a shield scrapper all the way and am currently working on a Shield/Fire tank... the set feels very squishy until you get your defenses above 30% or so. I know that at 24 my tank is still a bit... questionable for serious tanking. On the other hand my 50 BS/Shield scrapper is a quite capable tank so I know the set will mature quite nicely. If a shield scrapper can easily main tank an ITF I'd say a shield tank should be just fine. |
I tanked posi TF yesterday and was the only tank in the team. It actually wasn't too bad. I don't feel too squishy, but that's probably because the only other tank I've really played much of was a FA/SS.
I'll be honest, I was a bit apprehensive about starting this thread (and I still kind of am) because I've been spending quite a while tweaking and adjusting and drooling over this build, and it's just one of those things where you think you did such a good job you'd hate for anyone to tell you you really didn't, but I figured since my tanker in question is still rather low and since I don't consider myself a "pro" that I'd rather know if I had any glaring problems.
First, I'll outline what exactly this build gives me:
45%+ Melee/Ranged Defense
43% AoE Defense
45% S/L Resistance
22% E/N/F/C/T Resistance
3000+ HP w/ Accolades
360% Regen
3.5/s Recovery
62.5% Global Recharge
43% Accuracy
15.5% Damage
And without further ado...
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(19), ResDam-I(43), ResDam-I(43)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(7), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(9), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), T'Death-Dam%(34)
Level 2: True Grit -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(3), Numna-Heal(3), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(17), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(17), ImpArm-ResDam(33)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(19)
Level 6: Heavy Mallet -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 8: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(45)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(34), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(34), RgnTis-Regen+(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 22: Fault -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(23), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(23), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(45), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(46)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Oblit-%Dam(31)
Level 28: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(37), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(40), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(45), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Tough -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), TtmC'tng-ResDam(31)
Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(33)
Level 35: Tremor -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(39), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(39), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(40), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(42), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(42), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(42), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(43), Zinger-Dam%(46)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Adrenalin Boost -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(48), Mrcl-Rcvry+(48), P'Shift-End%(48)
Level 49: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-Rchg(50), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Now, my only real concern with my build is that if I don't constantly have someone in range for PF my Ranged defense is no longer soft capped and my AoE defense goes below 40%, which I at first thought would be pretty dire, but then I realized that since I chose SM as my secondary I have a total of 3 AoE knockdowns, and with the amount of recharge I have Tremor recharges quick enough that I can pretty much fit it in the chain twice to offer 4 continuous knockdowns in a row.
Basically that means for the first 10 or so seconds of pulling a mob they won't be doing much else except laying on their butts. This also means I pretty much shatter their alpha strike, and that on any sort of decent team by the time my onslaught of knockdowns has ended I should only be left to face the bosses and a few lucky LTs maybe, not to mention that I should also be able to keep the spawn pretty close together so any scrapper or blapper on my time should be close enough to me to where I do get the +Def from PF and I do have soft capped defenses.
Add to that Heavy Mallet's knockdown as well as Seismic Smash's Mag 4 hold and I seriously question how important not having soft capped defenses 100% of the time is. Now, I'm sure some of you number junkies will say "if you don't always have soft capped defenses you're gimp!" to which my rebuttal would be there's more ways to defend yourself than what those few percentage numbers tell you.
To be honest I did try to rebuild my build so that I did have soft capped defenses 100% of the time, but in order to do so I had to drop slots from powers I didn't really want to drop slots from, and I had to take powers I didn't really want to take. I tried just changing the sets I used to focus more on defensive bonuses but even in doing that I couldn't achieve the level of defense I needed and I realized that in order to gain that amount of defense I'd actually have to swap/drop a few powers for others (i.e. dropping Hasten/SS for CJ/SJ) that would either let me gain more defense directly or slot the right sets to gain more defense, and I didn't really want to do that.
Anyway, thanks in advance for any feedback.