Well.....Okay. The answer is.....SOMETIMES. I love D3/4 However...It does have its limits when It comes to inflicting damage on a single target. You will be able to solo a few AV's (meaning surviving and killing it) but not any real majority. The strength of the d3 is in terms of fighting a large number of enemies to make the most out of its 2 cones/other junkwhich I really dont need to go into detail with. However once It gets down to enemies Such as AV's/Heroes/etc overcoming their HP/Regen becomes much much more difficult, and in the case of defenders (sorry pal) it might be near impossible without resorting to Temporary powers simply due to lacking the single target DPS.
Now a few comments I can make....Try to get in at least 30% Ranged defense, it will help not only kill incoming damage but any other Holds or other status effects. This can be achieved by switching out Teleportation pool for Fighting (for tough/weave, you can easily get 50% Smashing/Lea. Resistance) Using Thunderstrike sets for the single target attacts in DB/ and accurate to-hit debuff in Fearsome stare. Slotting Shadowfall for defense can help considerably.
Otherwise it looks on track.
D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.
Thanks, Nate, and that's what I was looking for. The damage against AV's as a D3 in sustained fights is part the problem, hence why that build was geared at trying to get HT up as often as possible. Even with Hasten up, that 30 seconds of -500% Regen from HT will be negated by the fact another 26 or so seconds has to pass before it can be shot off again. Another problem is the endurance on those sustained fights. That can explain the reasoning for certain sets: just for the recovery and recharge bonuses, for the most part. The Deva bonus in DB and Gloom (3% damage) was to obviously try to address the damage issue.
And I'd never even thought of dipping into the Fighting pool. That's an interesting route, to be sure. I will definately be looking into that. And that actually leads to the next area of contention. There are those that say Defense, and those that say Resistance. Currently, Resistance is becoming a nuisance now, as even if that Hold only lasts a split second, it still drops my toggles. I will look into the DEF sets and see what I can't come up with, set bonus wise.
Call me a masochist (or my Defendery mentality), but I've gotta at least try, so no apologies are necessary on your part. You're provided feedback and even another route to look into, so for that, I thank you.
I am no defender expert but it should be quite possible to cap ranged def (Accounting for your to hit debuffs) and get some good s/l resistances (~65%) which added to your heal should really help you survive, it is purely the damage that may be lacking.
Howling Twilight makes a massive dent in the AV regen, so having that up as often as possible is the key, then you want to concentrate on 2 or 3 single target powers and see what dps you can come up with.
Let us assume you can get 100% global recharge while still keeping the defence bonus' (I haven't tried a build so can't say for sure that is possible, but it sounds reasonable enough), but you would have Howling Twilight up for 50% of the time. HT looks like it will account for most of an AV's regen, so for half the time you will be doing pretty much direct damage onto the health bar, and the other half you will be just making sure the AV doesn't regen too far.
It is also probably worth looking at keeping some pure ranged minions about for Dark Consumption/ Soul Drain, and with capped ranged def they won't be able to hurt you much.
The attack chain I think would have to be: Gloom > Dark Blast > Tenebrous Tentacles > Gloom > Dark Blast > Nightfall, which without procs takes 7.87 (Rounded up to around 8 for a rough Arcanatime calculation) and causes 611.7 damage, or 76 dps (Not counting for Soul Drain).
That alone isn't enough to heat the regen of any AV, but when you add in the -res from Tar Patch and the 30 of Howling Twilight I would think it is possible.
The fight would go something like this:
Get the AV and minions together, Howling Twilight, move the AV away from the minions (So you don't kill them), Soul Drain, attack the AV slightly denting his health. HT then runs out and you have 30s to keep on attacking during which time he may regen 50% of the damage you just caused, and eventually this way you will wear him down.
The things to be careful about are leaving the minions alive for Dark Consumption, so you cannot Soul Drain too often and have to watch those cone attacks.
The big problem is that whenever you stop to heal or replenish a debuff you will be losing a big chunk of damage, so have to be really careful when to heal and when to rely on your own regen.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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This is an interesting project. I hadn't realized how big the -regen debuff was for Howling Twilight; I regularly use it as an attack for the stun -- it stacks well with stuns from other characters (Oppressive Gloom, for example).
From the slotting it seems that you're really emphasizing Regeneration, but you're still only winding up with 200% or so. I haven't soloed AVs, but it seems that when you do get hit, it's gonna really hurt, and you'll have to heal up immediately (with Twilight Grasp), so moderate regen may not buy you much. Twilight Grasp does have a -50% regen, so it's not a total loss when you have to use it.
You might concentrate on ranged defense instead as Nate suggests; there are lots of sets that give good bonuses for that.
If you do concentrate on ranged defense, you might also consider the Leadership pool for Maneuvers (and maybe Assault for extra damage). That you way you don't have to "waste" two power choices on Boxing and Tough. It will mean an even bigger drain on endurance, so additional bonuses for recovery and endurance would be good. Be sure to get the accolades for those (Atlas Medallion, Task Force Commander, etc.) if you don't already have them.
Furthermore, if you're concentrating on ranged defense, powers that require close contact with the enemy are probably not as useful. That would mean eliminating one or more of Dark Consumption, Soul Drain and Air Superiority if you're concentrating on AVs only.
I'm not sure you can count on minions staying alive for Dark Consumption and Soul Drain. Keeping them away from the AV will be hard, since you need them to be debuffed by Darkest Night and the pet. And if they're by the AV the Tentacles will eventually kill them.
Finally, do you have a special tactic that you use Teleport Foe for?
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Howling twilight is a Anti-speedboost, stun and fear its epic....and autohit.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
This is an interesting project. I hadn't realized how big the -regen debuff was for Howling Twilight; I regularly use it as an attack for the stun -- it stacks well with stuns from other characters (Oppressive Gloom, for example).
From the slotting it seems that you're really emphasizing Regeneration, but you're still only winding up with 200% or so. I haven't soloed AVs, but it seems that when you do get hit, it's gonna really hurt, and you'll have to heal up immediately (with Twilight Grasp), so moderate regen may not buy you much. Twilight Grasp does have a -50% regen, so it's not a total loss when you have to use it. You might concentrate on ranged defense instead as Nate suggests; there are lots of sets that give good bonuses for that. If you do concentrate on ranged defense, you might also consider the Leadership pool for Maneuvers (and maybe Assault for extra damage). That you way you don't have to "waste" two power choices on Boxing and Tough. It will mean an even bigger drain on endurance, so additional bonuses for recovery and endurance would be good. Be sure to get the accolades for those (Atlas Medallion, Task Force Commander, etc.) if you don't already have them. Furthermore, if you're concentrating on ranged defense, powers that require close contact with the enemy are probably not as useful. That would mean eliminating one or more of Dark Consumption, Soul Drain and Air Superiority if you're concentrating on AVs only. I'm not sure you can count on minions staying alive for Dark Consumption and Soul Drain. Keeping them away from the AV will be hard, since you need them to be debuffed by Darkest Night and the pet. And if they're by the AV the Tentacles will eventually kill them. Finally, do you have a special tactic that you use Teleport Foe for? |
Keep Dark Consumption, It will save your life by getting that tiny bit of end to keep toggles up.
The main tool for stacking stuns is HT and Dark pit. It will stun everything up to boss's assuming dark pit hits, I personally really don't care much for this especially for a AV killing build. The Ranged defense cap is definitely reachable, Ive done it on both my Corruptor and defender and it helps a TON. It will allow a D3 to tank things tanks are afraid of as the only real weakness in D3's is the alpha strike which with softcaped ranged defense will be basicly eliminated. As I said earlier Dark really is not the set you would use to kill avs..I lacks the needed ST burst. While some of the lower health/Regen avs will be doable others will not. Now there is a few ways you can deal with the regen of a AV
A) slot Twilight grasp ((aoe heal <3 with a 50% regen debuff and 12% damage debuff)) for recharge and have that quad stacked for 200% regen debuff+fireing off HT every 30 seconds roughly for a average 400-ish% Regen debuff. Speaking purely in theory If you slot it so you have heavy damage and Endurance reduction, Recharge along with Accuracy/rech set bonus that would potentially make D3 a capable AV killer but it will be a long and rather dangerous fight Id imagine. Went into abit of a ramble...ive been up too late
**edit daaaarnit I went off into a ramble and forgot about the issues of Oppressive gloom.
^^For that the reason its not a popular choice is that it requires you to be in Melee range , this makes using your cones TT and NF much more difficult to use.
D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.
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You are correct, Princess. That is almost my precise attack chain as it currently sits on single targets, with the exception of NF, which on single targets, the extra end cost is not worth it, as with Hasten going, by the time the TT's are down, my DB and Gloom are back up.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
The attack chain I think would have to be: Gloom > Dark Blast > Tenebrous Tentacles > Gloom > Dark Blast > Nightfall, which without procs takes 7.87 (Rounded up to around 8 for a rough Arcanatime calculation) and causes 611.7 damage, or 76 dps (Not counting for Soul Drain).
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Rodion, the only reason Teleport Foe is in there currently is I was so tired of staring at the Mid's screen trying to get sets worked out, checking totals, toggling, detoggling, adjusting sets, etc etc, that I hadn't changed that aspect out yet. That's why I I let it be known that you are free to provide alternates for powers. And actually, I was thinking of putting the Leadership pool in there for just that reason. I could put another LotG (to bring the time without HT down to about 24.5 sec) then get that damage increase from Assault. The problem with slotting it would be grabbing them from elsewhere. I suppose I could take some from Dark Embrace possibly to put them in Maneuvers. Good advice on that. Thank you. Also, the slotting was geared more towards Recovery and recharge bonuses. It just so happened that some Regen made it through, as well.
Nate, again you are correct. Dark Consumption is in there so I can jump back into their face to draw back about 65% endurance and jump back out. This, of course, means I am at a point where I'm not dishing out damage; however, it means that those 3 seconds just bought me at least another minute or so of not having to run away waiting for my recovery to make it up. If I've been doing it right, that second or two shouldn't be enough for the AV to hit me (thanks to all the -Hit every attack has into it). This project is inherently dangerous to begin with, and the fine line between life and death will constantly be balanced upon. This is by NO means going to be a "coffee" build. If it can work, I will have to constantly be aware of every cooldown, every action (by Fluffy, myself, and the AV), and every bar on the screen at all times.
Side Note: This, of course, does not include any Inspiration usage or Temp powers.
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Sorry for not quoting you as well on this, Nate.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
If you do concentrate on ranged defense, you might also consider the Leadership pool for Maneuvers (and maybe Assault for extra damage).
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*UPDATE* On the listed build, I have completely removed the "Teleportation" pool and instead replaced it with the "Leadership" pool and removed 2 slots from Dark Embrace (keeping the Mez and Psi resists from Aegis and Imp Skin), with the following in it's place:
Lvl 35: Maneuvers (LotG: Global Recharge, bringing the time w/o HT down to 24.5 sec with Hasten up according to Mid's) *slot added at 45 with an Endurance Redux IO*
Lvl 38: Tactics (EndRedux IO) *Slot added at 45 with an EndRedux IO*
There is still about a 1 minute downtime between Hasten, which isn't bad without Accelerate Metabolism or any other outside means.
Also, within "Dark Embrace" I swapped out the Aegis: Psi Resist for Steadfast Prot: Resist/+3% Def (All).
I have swapped out the Acc/Dmg "Executioner's Contract" in Moonbeam for the Dmg/End instead, bringing it's cost to use down to ~10.
That brings up my conundrum: In order to focus on Ranged Def, the set bonuses, which are what this build was designed around for the most part, need to be accounted for. If I switch out the Devastation set to get the 6 piece bonus for Thunderstrike (from Dark Blast and Gloom), I lose a 6% damage increase as well as the unintentional 24% regen and 5.5% MaxHP. Along the same lines, Cloud Senses' (Accurate ToHit Debuff) six piece is a 3.75% Ranged Def increase, and that can be slotted into most every power in a D3; however, the set bonuses that would be lost far outweigh the Ranged Def, in my opinion.
As I've said, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the numbers (everything I've got is based off Mid's), and the majority of the sets in this build (both in reality and hypothetical in terms of what we are discussing) are too expensive to just experiment with and do the judging in play. I DO understand the importance of Ranged Def in order to minimize the mezzing (and therefore the retoggling), but it seems to me that exchanging +Recovery, +DMG, +ACC, +Recharge, +HP, +Regen, etc. does not constitute the exchange for +Ranged Def, +Status Res and lower overall numbers to +ACC and +Rech. Also, many of those Ranged Def bonuses from sets (Cloud Senses, Trap of the Hunter, Pacing of the Turtle, Numina's Convalescence, Red Fortune, Essence of Curare, Lockdown) are the full 6 piece bonus, and the few that are NOT the 6 piece are neglible bonuses (with the exception of Basilisk's Gaze which offers 1.25% with a 2 piece, but only from the "Hold" sets, so only Fluffy can be slotted with it, as the build sits), so again, many other bonuses would be negated/reduced in order to do so.
Nate, Rodion, Princess, I really do appreciate your input on this and I do value your opinions (as well as anyone else that offer ideas to this project). As such, if you can offer alternatives to slotting (pulling from Dark Embrace to throw 1 slot each into Manuevers/Tactics, for example) to allow for a set bonus I'm not thinking of, by all means, I'm listening. I was looking at it, and I might actually pull a slot from Tactics and throw it into Tar Patch to get the 3.13% Ranged Def from "Pacing of the Turtle". The problem with that is that Tar Patch will no longer be out all the time, as it lasts 45 sec and with PotT in there, it's recharge is ~51 sec without Hasten.
The more I look at the info from Mid's, the more disheartened I become, it seems. Unless the Defender's base damage is increased (and heaven FORBID they give us an inherent that actually works when soloing!), it appears that the Cards have deemed the D3 a support role (majority-wise, anyway) for AV takedowns. I'm still not 100% convinced of this yet, but the longer I look at the numbers, that percentage keeps rising. >.<
Seeing as darks have a strong -regen power that's easily up half of the time, they're better off for AV soloing than most other ATs out there. It's only when you compare them to rads / colds / traps that they look bad.
Softcapping ranged is definitely not how I'd go about it, with such strong tohit debuffs it'll affect AVs even with their 85% res. I mean DN is ~30% alone, so is Fearstome Stare, so is Chill of the Night from the Dark Servant, which also uses DN sometimes, each attack also debuffs by ~10% and AV soloing requiring constant attacks you should be easily applying a constant -80%, -100% tohit to the AV. 85% resisted, that's still a hefty 12~15%, meaning you can shoot for 35% defense and be just fine.
You're missing an easy source of both anti-KB and +ranged if you can hack it in: Blessing of the Zephyr. Just one extra slot in your travel power and it's there. Once you hit the 30-35% area without using BotZ (huh...), you could look at swapping things around to say, change a set to 5 slots of Decimation rather than 6 slots of Tstrike, or however you want to go about it.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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And that was my thinking, Nihilii. Since just about everything a D3 does throws on a -ACC to the target, it's just surviving the alpha strike. After a round of attacks (summon Fluffy in their face, DN, Tar Patch, Tenny Tents, HT, DB, Gloom, TG, then the normal rotation of DB, Gloom, TG, TT, keeping HT up on auto), getting hit isn't usally the problem, and with TG being in standard rotation, even if I DO get hit, it's not really a problem. Until the build is actually done and slotted to be tested, the problem is that Hasten is STILL down for about 30 seconds now before it can be recast, which means during that time, HT is not effecting the target for about 45 seconds or so while it's on c/d . That, in turn, means that as long as the AV's health doesn't return to it's previous level before Hasten comes back up, I can slowly take 'em down (death by a thousand cuts, if you will), hence why TG is in my standard attack rotation.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Seeing as darks have a strong -regen power that's easily up half of the time, they're better off for AV soloing than most other ATs out there. It's only when you compare them to rads / colds / traps that they look bad.
Softcapping ranged is definitely not how I'd go about it, with such strong tohit debuffs it'll affect AVs even with their 85% res. I mean DN is ~30% alone, so is Fearstome Stare, so is Chill of the Night from the Dark Servant, which also uses DN sometimes, each attack also debuffs by ~10% and AV soloing requiring constant attacks you should be easily applying a constant -80%, -100% tohit to the AV. 85% resisted, that's still a hefty 12~15%, meaning you can shoot for 35% defense and be just fine. |
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Originally Posted by LostHalo
You're missing an easy source of both anti-KB and +ranged if you can hack it in: Blessing of the Zephyr. Just one extra slot in your travel power and it's there. Once you hit the 30-35% area without using BotZ (huh...), you could look at swapping things around to say, change a set to 5 slots of Decimation rather than 6 slots of Tstrike, or however you want to go about it.
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*BUILD UPDATE*
Removed 1 slot from Tactics and moved it to Hover, putting a LotG: Def/End into hover, adding a 10% Regen set bonus.
Changed the End IO in Maneuvers to a LotG: Def/End, adding a 10% Regen set bonus.
Removed the ImpArmor from Shadow Fall and replaced them with Gift of the Ancients: Def, Def/End, Def/Rech, and Def/End/Rech. This set adds 2% Recovery, 2.5% Fire Resist, and 1.8% Max End.
Removed 1 slot from Tar Patch (lvl 50, removed the PotT) and put it into Hasten with another Rech IO.
With these changes, with all self toggles on (including Hover), this brings the overall DEF to 19%, Ranged Def to 20.9%, and Energy & Negative Def to 19.9%. Overall Regen is 226%, Recovery is 162% (2.75/sec), and End use just standing there is 1.37/sec. Not ideal, but this does not factor in the PerfShift proc in Stamina nor the use of Dark Consumption (~157 sec rech, non-Hasten). Also, this does not include the use of Inspirations/Temp Powers/Accolades.
~*Edit: Added a change to Hasten's downtime and inclusion of another slot into Hasten*~
So here's the latest build, with the data chunk I had carelessly forgotten. Still playing with the idea of dropping a 4% recovery in order to slot out AbsoAmaze in HT for the 10% rech bonus, but with the latest tweaks, that may make the drain/gain difference almost too much. Not sure.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Healless v2: Level 50 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
Hero Profile:
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Level 1: Twilight Grasp Nictus-Acc/Heal(A), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Nictus-%Dam(7), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(29), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 1: Dark Blast Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Dev'n-Hold%(11), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(15), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 2: Gloom Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 4: Darkest Night DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(5), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(5), DarkWD-Slow%(46)
Level 6: Hover LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 8: Shadow Fall LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(9), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(11), GftotA-Def(36), GftotA-Def/Rchg(36), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 10: Swift Flight-I(A)
Level 12: Fearsome Stare Abys-Acc/Rchg(A), Abys-EndRdx/Fear(13), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg(13), Abys-Acc/EndRdx(48), Abys-Dam%(50)
Level 14: Fly Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(17), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(17), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(40), GravAnch-Hold%(42), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43)
Level 18: Health Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(25)
Level 20: Stamina P'Shift-End%(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Tar Patch RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), EndRdx-I(23), Slow-I(48)
Level 24: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 26: Night Fall Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(27), Posi-Dmg/Rng(40), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), Posi-Dam%(43)
Level 28: Howling Twilight Amaze-Stun/Rchg(A), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(29), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(39), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(39), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39)
Level 30: Moonbeam Mantic-Acc/Dmg(A), Mantic-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(31), Mantic-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mantic-Dam%(43), ExecCtrt-Stun%(46), ExecCtrt-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Dark Servant Nictus-Acc/Heal(A), Nictus-%Dam(33), DarkWD-Slow%(33), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(33), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(34), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Maneuvers LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 38: Assault EndRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Dark Consumption P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(42), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(42), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Dark Embrace S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpSkn-Status(45)
Level 47: Soul Drain Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Air Superiority HO:Nucle(A)
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Level 1: Brawl Dmg-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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I am working on getting you a mids build of my defender build right now...
When it gets down to it you only need 30% defense, the rest can easily be made up with Debuffs from Miasma. You can use the extra slotting space to achieve higher damage/Recharge/acc/etc. In my case I like being totally invulnerable, even when dealing with say.... 8 man spawned groups of MALTA, filled with sappers and gunslingers. Nasty stuff there. However for most normal play, including AV killing that much mitigation is simply not needed.
D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.
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Personnally, I'd use DB -> Gloom -> DB -> (gap), using click powers as needed during the gap (TG when hurt, FS, Tar Patch, SD, Hasten or HT when it's up, otherwise TT), with the apoc set in DB - or at the very least the apoc proc. That proc does 105 damage when it hits and, with a 33% chance to go off, that's on average 35 damage. Seeing as Dark Blast does 36 damage base, that proc alone is as good as 95% damage enhancement - and of course, it "stacks" with 95% damage enhancement, giving you a dark blast dealing ~110 damage rather than ~75 damage, which is a pretty big DPS boost.| the normal rotation of DB, Gloom, TG, TT, keeping HT up on auto) |
Another option is to pick OG instead of Air Superiority, as it can perma-stun minions and, combined with HT, will stun the AV while triangles are down (1/3 of the time). Keeping perma-stunned minions around can be useful to fuel Soul Drain and Dark Consumption, although it obviously makes the alpha part more tricky than it already is. Pet AI tends to ignore mezzed mobs, especially if there's closer, fighting foes, so the dark servant being on the AV and you at range with minions, this isn't a problem... Although it makes positioning correctly harder, and sometimes it's something you might not be able to pull off.
Here's what I'd use for the task, if it was my alt :
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(3), RechRdx-I(3)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(5), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(7), Cloud-%Dam(9)
Level 2: Darkest Night -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(33), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(34), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(34)
Level 4: Gloom -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(11), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Cloud-%Dam(13)
Level 6: Twilight Grasp -- HO:Golgi(A), HO:Golgi(40), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Nictus-Acc/Heal(42)
Level 8: Shadow Fall -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21), Aegis-ResDam(25), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(31), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(31)
Level 10: Howling Twilight -- Amaze-Stun/Rchg(A), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(17), Amaze-Stun(33), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(33), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 12: Fearsome Stare -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(34), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(37), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(39), Acc-I(40)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-Travel(15), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17), Zephyr-ResKB(19)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(21)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(23), P'Shift-EndMod(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(25)
Level 24: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(46), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 28: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-Travel(29), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(29), Zephyr-ResKB(31)
Level 30: Black Hole -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Dark Servant -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(43), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(43), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(43), Acc-I(46)
Level 35: Life Drain -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(36), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(39)
Level 41: Dark Consumption -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(42), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(45), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(45), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(45)
Level 47: Soul Drain -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Oppressive Gloom -- Dsrnt-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Code:
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Apoc proc in DB, damage procs in DB and Gloom and Tar Patch stacking ~40% of the time, bringing effective DPS to ~110-120ish, which is enough to beat standard AV regen without regen debuffs. Note this isn't considering Soul Drain, which would boost the damage a bit.
Downtime of about 15-20s on Hasten.
HT up every minute => debuff is active 50% of the time.
Net recovery of 2.99 end per second with all combat toggles active (the perf shifter proc being averaged to +0.2 end per second). This isn't enough to sustain attacking indefinitely by itself, but with DC every 2 minutes refilling a full end bar with perma-stunned minions around, it might be OK.
32.8% ranged defense, 25.9% AoE, which should be alright once the tohit debuffs are set ; there's some decent resistances and max HP to take on the alpha too. I'd use the same routine you suggested, except for casting Fearstome Stare before HT and Tar Patch ; I'd use these two powers only after I'm sure the AV is well debuffed and I've recovered from the alpha (full life), to maximize damage during the -regen and -res.
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You, sir, are awesome. Coming up with that in ~10 minutes, I bow to your abilities. Question, though: Is there a particular use for Black Hole? If not, my personal playstyle would be to swap it out for Night Fall, as getting to the AV is one part of the equation in fighting them. With only one slot into it, it would be an ACC IO.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Personnally, I'd use DB -> Gloom -> DB -> (gap), using click powers as needed during the gap (TG when hurt, FS, Tar Patch, SD, Hasten or HT when it's up, otherwise TT), with the apoc set in DB - or at the very least the apoc proc. That proc does 105 damage when it hits and, with a 33% chance to go off, that's on average 35 damage. Seeing as Dark Blast does 36 damage base, that proc alone is as good as 95% damage enhancement - and of course, it "stacks" with 95% damage enhancement, giving you a dark blast dealing ~110 damage rather than ~75 damage, which is a pretty big DPS boost.
... It could use a few refinements, that's a ten minute build, but the general gist of it would be the same. |
As far as Life Drain, I would assume that that would be the preferred method to regain health as opposed to TG, as it would deal damage as well. Using LD as opposed to TG does not heal for nearly the amount, so I suppose it would be dependent on how much damage was taken.
I thought Black Hole could be used on the AV if taking too much damage - of course, he'll regen some, but sometimes it's better than dying. Ultimately it's probably not a very important power and Nightfall could easily replace it, as you could just as well jump/fly away if needed.
You're right on the money on LD vs TG. I'd use LD during the attack chain gap if I need to top off a small drop in health, otherwise if I was badly hurt I'd use TG. Another advantage is you could also use both in a row for maximum healing in a tough spot.
I don't know... TG has the dual advantage of -regen and -dmg and it DOES stack with itself. More damage from you is equivalent to less regen from them, AND less incoming damage means less need to heal so I'd be 50/50 on which heal to use. I personally prefer TG, which I set on auto, for the debuffing aspects, especially to hold even with the -regen while Howling is down. The heal is just a side effect.
Looking at it, TG seems to be slightly superior than LD in terms of effective damage. I guess I was too used of Siphon Life (which is actually a good attack) for scrappers.
Now, TG is still much weaker than DB or Gloom and I'd never use it over these attacks, only during the gap.
Quick and dirty math, taking shortcuts but it should remain a good approximation :
TG has a 2.508s animation (considering server ticks) and debuffs regen by 50% for 20 seconds.
Level 50 AVs have 85% resistance to -regen, bringing this to -7.5%.
They regen ~93hp/s, which means -7.5% regen prevents ~7hp/s (equivalent to 7 damage per second)
It lasts 20 seconds, so that's 140 "damage".
140 / 2.508 = 55.62 "damage" per second for TG.
LD does 102 damage (considering enhancements, and 1.5x tar patch) and animates in 2.112s.
That's 102 / 2.112 = 48.3 damage per second for LD.
TG seems to be a clear winner seeing as it heals for more than 4x as much when LD is slotted for damage ; LD having a faster animation means the real big hitters come back up faster, but it's so close it's probably better to just use TG.
I've been studying the Dark/Dark combo from both Corr and Def sides, and I think worrying about soft-capping really boils down to worrying about the alpha strike. After that, the mob should be sufficiently debuffed that even a moderate Def is good enough.
If you want to slot for Def soft-caps, it's possible, but you really ought to take CJ, Boxing, Tough, Weave, Swift, Health, Stamina.
Mezzes are disproportionately un-Position-ed compared to other attacks, and Positionals cover less than Typed attacks, but unless you're an AT that can shoot for capping all six Typed Defenses, you're still better off relying upon all Positions than just S/L.
You might get some mileage out of Hover. It's more efficient as a Def power than Maneuvers if you're solo, and it has the added bonus of being able to fly upwards if the fight goes badly.
However, I don't think that soft-capping should hold tremendous relevance to a Dark/Dark Def/Corr beyond the alpha-strike.
One particular trick I haven't seen mentioned in this thread that I've recently come to live by is slotting Fearsome Stare for -Acc debuff. 6-slotted with Siphon Insight, it's essentially Darkest Night with a Fear effect instead of a damage debuff. You can keep every mob at that same massive -28.5% to-hit without worrying about an anchor.
It's a great opening attack because it controls most of the mob, and it debuffs more than it controls, including AVs. If I've put a Tar Patch between me and the AV mob, anyone who isn't hit with the fear and comes towards me is now grounded and their movement horribly debuffed.
DN can double that, and a -57% to-hit debuff (even with AV Res to debuffs) is a powerful thing.
Not slotting the Fear effect is actual helpful to this technique. Unslotted, the Fear wears off just before the debuff does, meaning that when the minions wake up you have a couple of seconds notice that the debuff is about to wear off for everyone (i.e. the AV).
I think Recharge Reduction and Endurance Boosts is a stronger approach for a solo AV-killer than worrying about Def (although I'd still put that as the third priority).
Another reason to favour TG over LD: It heals Fluffy.
Before you say, "If you want to solo AV's, roll a <insert class here>!", I am going to get this clear right from the start: I DON'T WANT TO!
I enjoy my Pure Darkness (D3, D4, Dark/Dark/Dark, whichever you want) too much. That's not the point of this post. The POINT is to get those of us that love to solo as a grouping class to get the gears working and see if it's possible.
If it can't be done, then so be it; however, I find it hard to believe if that's the case. This particular powerset is FAR to fun to play to not stand a shot at taking down AV's, given the proper build and set's. And I'm not talking about only taking down 1 or 2. I'm looking at a 50% or better takedown, and I'm not going to say EVERY AV, as that's unreasonable.
The following is a STRICTLY theory crafted version based (mostly) off my current build, with some powers changed (or in the case of Blackstar, removed entirely). As a theorycraft, I am not interested in how much it's going to cost for the recipes (Gravitational Anchor is obscene), just the end result. CONSTRUCTIVE input and/or criticism is welcome and respected. After all, that's what it's here for. Obviously there are changes that can be made (swapping the Teleport pool for say, Leadership to gain another LotG global recharge), but as I'm not a numbercruching kinda guy, I leave that to those that are far more suited to it.
Thanks for the input in advance, and let's see what we can't come up with!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Healless v2: Level 50 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
Hero Profile:
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Level 1: Twilight Grasp
(A) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing
(7) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(7) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
(29) Touch of the Nictus - Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration/Recharge
(34) Miracle - Endurance/Recharge
(37) Miracle - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
Level 1: Dark Blast
(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
(11) Devastation - Chance of Hold
(15) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage
(19) Devastation - Damage/Endurance
(37) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Level 2: Gloom
(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(9) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(15) Devastation - Damage/Endurance
(19) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(37) Devastation - Damage/Recharge
Level 4: Darkest Night
(A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
(5) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
(5) Dark Watcher's Despair - Recharge/Endurance
(46) Dark Watcher's Despair - Chance for Recharge Slow
Level 6: Hover
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 8: Shadow Fall
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(11) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(36) Impervium Armor - Resistance
(36) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(36) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
Level 10: Swift
(A) Flight Speed IO
Level 12: Fearsome Stare
(A) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Recharge
(13) Glimpse of the Abyss - Endurance/Fear
(13) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Fear/Recharge
(48) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Endurance
(50) Glimpse of the Abyss - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
Level 14: Fly
(A) Flight Speed IO
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles
(A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
(17) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Recharge
(17) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Endurance
(40) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Recharge
(42) Gravitational Anchor - Chance for Hold
(43) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
Level 18: Health
(A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
(25) Miracle - +Recovery
Level 20: Stamina
(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(21) Endurance Modification IO
(21) Endurance Modification IO
Level 22: Tar Patch
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(23) Recharge Reduction IO
(23) Recharge Reduction IO
(48) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Slow IO
Level 24: Hasten
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(25) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 26: Night Fall
(A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
(27) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
(27) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
(40) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
(40) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(43) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
Level 28: Howling Twilight
(A) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
(29) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
(31) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
(39) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
(39) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
(39) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Level 30: Moonbeam
(A) Sting of the Manticore - Accuracy/Damage
(31) Sting of the Manticore - Damage/Interrupt/Recharge
(31) Sting of the Manticore - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(43) Sting of the Manticore - Chance of Damage(Toxic)
(46) Executioner's Contract - Disorient Bonus
(46) Executioner's Contract - Accuracy/Damage
Level 32: Dark Servant
(A) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing
(33) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
(33) Dark Watcher's Despair - Chance for Recharge Slow
(33) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
(34) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
(34) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
Level 35: Recall Friend
(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 38: Teleport Foe
(A) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 41: Dark Consumption
(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(42) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
(42) Performance Shifter - Accuracy/Recharge
(48) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
Level 44: Dark Embrace
(A) Aegis - Resistance
(45) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
(45) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
(45) Impervious Skin - Status Resistance
Level 47: Soul Drain
(A) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
(50) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
Level 49: Air Superiority
(A) Accuracy IO
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Level 1: Brawl
(A) Damage Increase IO
Level 1: Sprint
(A) Run Speed IO
Level 2: Rest
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Vigilance
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Set Bonus Totals:
9% DamageBuff(Smashing)
9% DamageBuff(Lethal)
9% DamageBuff(Fire)
9% DamageBuff(Cold)
9% DamageBuff(Energy)
9% DamageBuff(Negative)
9% DamageBuff(Toxic)
9% DamageBuff(Psionic)
3.13% Defense(Fire)
3.13% Defense(Cold)
0.94% Defense(Energy)
0.94% Defense(Negative)
1.88% Defense(Psionic)
1.88% Defense(Ranged)
1.56% Defense(AoE)
2.25% Max End
47.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
2.75% Enhancement(Terrorized)
5% Enhancement(Heal)
57% Enhancement(Accuracy)
5% FlySpeed
152.6 HP (15%) HitPoints
5% JumpHeight
5% JumpSpeed
Knockback (Mag -4)
Knockup (Mag -4)
MezResist(Confused) 7.5%
MezResist(Held) 7.5%
MezResist(Immobilize) 7.5%
MezResist(Sleep) 7.5%
MezResist(Stun) 7.5%
MezResist(Terrorized) 7.5%
34.5% (0.58 End/sec) Recovery
46% (1.95 HP/sec) Regeneration
6.62% Resistance(Fire)
6.62% Resistance(Cold)
3.13% Resistance(Toxic)
6% Resistance(Psionic)
10% RunSpeed
~*EDIT: Removed excessive data*~