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I've heard that rumor too, but given what we've seen with AE in terms of madcap non-stop power-levelling missions like the Healing Mitos or any of the other ten thousand variations of farms, not to mention the countless classic standard content farms like Demons, etc., etc., I find it hard to imagine that some SG's running CoP Farms would be considered such a major problem by the Devs that they would take the entire CoP/IoP system offline instead of just changing the XP rewards in the Cathedral.|
Originally Posted by DojhromTRW
The COP trial was apparently highly XP exploitable, think a level 1 in a Mito AE mission...
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Surely there has to be something more to it than that.
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Hmmmm.... I also seem to recall hearing that there was some sort of targeting issue when destructible items were up for testing... Like I say, I did not do the testing myself, so I'm just remembering things second/third hand. I can imagine that between lag and targeting issues, it turned into one massive cluster***k.
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Originally Posted by DojhromTRW
... A base owner would already have the base loaded into memory so they can just pound the other player while loading or lagging. Destructable items just amplified this problem.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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A lot of people would say, "In a Real Raid, anything goes" (since literally your base could be completely trashed by attackers), but a certain level of etiquette applied in Instant Base Raids (where nothing was at risk). For example, techniques such as the above (Spawn Camping) were really frowned upon, and an SG that engaged in them would soon find no one interested in raiding them.|
Originally Posted by DojhromTRW
I think I can help on this ... you could put a whole bunch of items to lag someone out... I used floor torches near all the spawn points to keep folks with older computers to a crawl. A base owner would already have the base loaded into memory so they can just pound the other player while loading or lagging. Experienced base builders would then make prisons out of light fixtures and hide anchors and such with objects, this was a nightmare to those trying a raid for the first time but an advantage to those who been to the base before and had experience.
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While you might become aware of the enemy's spawn point fairly soon on in a fight, the defenders in most Instant Base Raids usually wouldn't stand there and shoot people as they zoned in. They'd let them Zone in, and then engage them as they spread out from that point.
It was a lot more fun for everyone, and heart-pounding fun is what Instant Base Raids were all about!
Not to mention it helped SG's new to Base Raids get their feet under them. What a tragic loss it was to the Base Raiding Community for every "green" SG who ran into a defender who had their base arranged like the above!
Beaten down, unable to zone in, suffering from lag lag lag then dead, or stuck in a caltrop pit, or any of a hundred other things, why would they ever want to Raid again? A whole SG of players, lost.
Our SG always made Instant Raids as exciting and fun as possible for everyone involved, focusing more on PVP and Sweeping the Base to prevent Pylon set-ups or Anchorpoint attacks, less so on traps, mazes or the like.
Consequently, we had a pretty vibrant Raiding Community on Guardian that had been steadily growing for the past few years, until Base Raids were shut off in Issue 13.
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I completely agree, I've been to some Bizzaro-trap bases as well as really cool bases during the raids... quantum flight with stealth and recall friend was something I used quite often in a raid as it activated fast and was able to move key players to hammer empty positions ... people always forgot you could win by placing pylons. I hope for it to be back in a nice way and I'm willing to give the devs help and ideas when they need it.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Vivian
A lot of people would say, "In a Real Raid, anything goes" (since literally your base could be completely trashed by attackers), but a certain level of etiquette applied in Instant Base Raids (where nothing was at risk). For example, techniques such as the above (Spawn Camping) were really frowned upon, and an SG that engaged in them would soon find no one interested in raiding them.
While you might become aware of the enemy's spawn point fairly soon on in a fight, the defenders in most Instant Base Raids usually wouldn't stand there and shoot people as they zoned in. They'd let them Zone in, and then engage them as they spread out from that point. It was a lot more fun for everyone, and heart-pounding fun is what Instant Base Raids were all about! Not to mention it helped SG's new to Base Raids get their feet under them. What a tragic loss it was to the Base Raiding Community for every "green" SG who ran into a defender who had their base arranged like the above! Beaten down, unable to zone in, suffering from lag lag lag then dead, or stuck in a caltrop pit, or any of a hundred other things, why would they ever want to Raid again? A whole SG of players, lost. Our SG always made Instant Raids as exciting and fun as possible for everyone involved, focusing more on PVP and Sweeping the Base to prevent Pylon set-ups or Anchorpoint attacks, less so on traps, mazes or the like. Consequently, we had a pretty vibrant Raiding Community on Guardian that had been steadily growing for the past few years, until Base Raids were shut off in Issue 13. |
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
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Beware of Over-Door Stealth Strippers backed by a battery of Elite Scanners and Freeze Rays! |
Originally Posted by DojhromTRW
I completely agree, I've been to some Bizzaro-trap bases as well as really cool bases during the raids... quantum flight with stealth and recall friend was something I used quite often in a raid as it activated fast and was able to move key players to hammer empty positions ... people always forgot you could win by placing pylons. I hope for it to be back in a nice way and I'm willing to give the devs help and ideas when they need it.
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Me, too. |
Originally Posted by DojhromTRW
I hope for it to be back in a nice way and I'm willing to give the devs help and ideas when they need it.
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I'm looking forward to their return!
My view is that CoP/IoP fix development goes in cycles sort of like this:
Step 1: Someone on the dev team, with the best of intentions, decides to "take a stab" at "back burner" type issues like the CoP/IoP and associated base raids. The player community is informed (or rumors start) that something "is in the works".
Step 2: That person(s) opens up the code and goes "Ugh, this is terrible and what we have in mind for a fix doesn't work either. This is going to be a lot harder than we thought."
Step 3: A rationalization takes place that compares the level of effort required to make this right versus "the next big thing" in development (read AE, going rouge, going to the moon, or whatever). A contributing consideration is that only a small portion of the player community is interested in raids and compared to "the next big thing", a CoP/IoP/raid fix is less important.
Step 4: The matter is not forgotten but is "put on the shelf" (back burner). At a later date, go to Step 1.
It's important to note that I'm not calling anyone dishonest, lazy or anything of the kind. But until or unless I hear words like there is going to be "a major commitment" to "see this through to the end" I'm skeptical that we will see anything like a return of the CoP/IoP and associated raids anytime soon.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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This sort of speculation gets us nowhere. |
Originally Posted by Fire_Away
My view is that CoP/IoP fix development goes in cycles sort of like this:
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Only a member of the Programming team could really knowledgeably comment on their process of assessment and revision of sections of the game like the CoP/IoP, and more than likely, they're (a) not permitted to openly discuss internal procedures in the Forums, and (b) much too busy working every day on the next upcoming milestones to be frittering away any of their time posting here with us.
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You are right of course. Speculation gets us nowhere. Unfortunately, after literally years of nothing in terms of results with this aspect (CoP/IoP) of the game, speculation is all we have... yours that Base Raids and Items of Power will return in due course.. and mine that we, as players, have been and (without a significant change in commitment) will continue to be "strung along" without a fix indefinitely (unless, of course, NCSoft finally announces that they aren't willing to make that commitment and pull the plug). |
Originally Posted by Doctor_Vivian
This sort of speculation gets us nowhere.
Only a member of the Programming team could really knowledgeably comment on their process of assessment and revision of sections of the game like the CoP/IoP, and more than likely, they're (a) not permitted to openly discuss internal procedures in the Forums, and (b) much too busy working every day on the next upcoming milestones to be frittering away any of their time posting here with us. |
Anyway, I've had my say and appreciated the exchange of views sans personal attacks
. Nothing more from me regarding this topic.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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I guess we can agree to disagree. I am no less disappointed at the turning-off of Base Raids than you are, I'm sure. Perhaps it is even more keenly felt by myself, as I made the mistake of assuming they would be back in Issue 14... then 15...|
Originally Posted by Fire_Away
... we, as players, have been and (without a significant change in commitment) will continue to be "strung along" without a fix indefinitely (unless, of course, NCSoft finally announces that they aren't willing to make that commitment and pull the plug).
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But we both know that the Devs have a limited amount of engineers and budget to work on tasks. I don't think it so much a matter of "stringing along" as there being many competing tasks when it comes to things-to-do. Realistically, they have to pick those which will affect the greatest number of players -- these have to take priority.
Now, I know there is a vocal minority of players who insist that you can't keep making major changes until you polish and fix the existing content. However, I strongly disagree. Other MMOs that have done that have collapsed, and I'll tell you why -- player churn.
Each day, every MMO loses players, and CoX is no exception. Unless those lost players are replaced with new ones, the user base and subscription revenue shrinks -- and eventually the maintenance team starts getting slimmed down, then cut in half, then the game as a whole winds up being taken offline. It's happened to a bunch of games, ranging from the Matrix Online to Auto Assault.
In my opinion, the City of Heroes dev team and administration has taken the right course of action in focusing their limited resources on major expansions rather than polishing and tweaking existing content (except of course when necessary, such as removing Mending Mitos from the Mission Architect system).
Not only does this continuing roll-out of new Issues limit player churn as folks stay on, waiting for the next Issue that happens to contain something exciting that they're interested in or have been waiting for, but also it brings old players back to the game while simultaneously enticing new ones to join from the accompanying marketing of the next expansion.
The presence or absence of Base Raids accomplishes none of that. As such, I think it inevitable that Raids have to take a back seat, to be dealt with and brought back online when and as time permits.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Away
Anyway, I've had my say and appreciated the exchange of views sans personal attacks
. Nothing more from me regarding this topic. |
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone did that?
But as you say, we have no choice but to wait in any event.