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This is exactly what I have been saying, and I agree completely.|
Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
Whilst no AT is needed, really a controller should make a better controller than someones defender or blaster and they do by a mile. The powersets themselves makes sure that there is hardly one AT stepping on anothers toes.
Brutes and Tankers share the same powersets and caps apart from the damage cap. So Brutes can be made to effectively step on a Tankers and then do loads more damage. I am all for any team mix but many players are not so pick n mix inclined. In time certain things become law. The one way that everything is done, has to be done and there can't possibly be another way, a bit like getting a stone and an emp for the STF etc. Tanks could be less favourable. I play my Brutes like a Tanker anyway. |
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Originally Posted by Atheism
I'm curious to if brutes can do things tanks can without IOs. My guess is, probably not.
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SD/SS brute, SO build w/Accolades, without OWtS:, 40.1% M/R/AoE def, 35.1% S/L resist,
2091hp(which is @250 more than my fire tanks base hp at 50).
The end use would be abysmal, but in a team, that is easily overcome, so can a brute fill in for a tank without IOs, yep.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch -- Dmg(A)
Level 1: Deflection -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(3), DefBuff(3), ResDam(13), ResDam(13), ResDam(31)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(11), DefBuff(11), EndRdx(39), EndRdx(50)
Level 4: True Grit -- Heal(A), Heal(5), Heal(5)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(7), DefBuff(7), EndRdx(17)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- RechRdx(A), Dmg(9), Dmg(9), Dmg(39), EndRdx(39), EndRdx(40)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(45)
Level 12: Maneuvers -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(40), DefBuff(40), EndRdx(42), EndRdx(42), EndRdx(46)
Level 14: Hover -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(15), DefBuff(15), DefBuff(17)
Level 16: Boxing -- Dmg(A)
Level 18: Rage -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19)
Level 20: Against All Odds -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(21), EndRdx(21)
Level 22: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(23), DefBuff(23)
Level 24: Tough -- ResDam(A), ResDam(25), ResDam(25), EndRdx(31), EndRdx(43), EndRdx(50)
Level 26: Weave -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(27), DefBuff(27), EndRdx(31), EndRdx(43), EndRdx(50)
Level 28: Tactics -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(29), EndRdx(29), ToHit(42), ToHit(45)
Level 30: Haymaker -- RechRdx(A), Dmg(34), Dmg(37), Dmg(43), EndRdx(46), EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- RechRdx(A), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), EndRdx(34), EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(36), Dmg(36), Dmg(36), EndRdx(37), EndRdx(37)
Level 38: One with the Shield -- ResDam(A)
Level 41: Taunt -- RechRdx(A)
Level 44: Electrifying Fences -- RechRdx(A), Immob(45)
Level 47: Ball Lightning -- Dmg(A), Dmg(48), Dmg(48), EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Hurl -- Empty(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
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Set Bonus Totals:------------
Set Bonuses:
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
If I bring a brute over to hero side, it will be because I like that character.
If I bring a tanker over to villain side, it will be to have a character on that side with tanker defenses.
Just in terms of pure game play, I'd much rather play through the LRSF on a tanker than I would play through the STF on a brute. LRSF on a tanker sounds like fun. STF on a brute sounds frustrating and unpleasant.
I do have a tanking brute redside. That would be the one I would pull heroside in a trice. Then again, I have a tanking scrapper as well. Stephen Leacock wrote, "There is an elephant in the zoo that can count up to ten, yet I refuse to reckon myself his inferior."
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Originally Posted by _Deth_
we can only speculate as to what will happen when GR is released. I am speaking from experience with other games where I have seen this exact scenario occur. One class gets buffed to hell, or one faction gets access to a class they didn't have before, they see the strengths and weaknesses, and say, well, the weaknesses are heavily outweighed by the strengths.
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When crossover zones were introduced with new co-op tf's the same predictions were offered ad nauseum.
Can anyone point to a personal experience of a forming team (lgtf/itf) asking the Tank if they happen to have a Brute they could switch to?
Neither can I, after 500 some runs on both (mrs & I are itf/lgtf junkies).
Far from extinction, tanks have remained a popular AT since that issue (10), and even the discussions over them tend to illicit much more passion on the various topics then do the counterparts in the Brute section (also post #'s, though anecdotal).
Tanks have their niche, they're more durable out of the box then any other AT.
They are Superman & Capt Marvel from lvl1 up without support.
Actually this isn't even the accurate topic regarding GR's possible impact, the real question should be posed in another AT section entirely.
Whether Brutes will replace Scrappers.
The last bit of input I have, is what my tanks say to these obsolete AT arguments that pop up,
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
If I bring a brute over to hero side, it will be because I like that character.
Just in terms of pure game play, I'd much rather play through the LRSF on a tanker than I would play through the STF on a brute. LRSF on a tanker sounds like fun. STF on a brute sounds frustrating and unpleasant. |
Personally I have a stone/stone Brute that'll be going over with GR, because it plays closer to a Tank solo then most of the other choices (c/beta's past have given me all the brute varieties at 50 to test).
"There is an elephant in the zoo that can count up to ten, yet I refuse to reckon myself his inferior."
lol
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Originally Posted by Acemace
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Funny, after Tyson made that statement, he got his *** handed to him.
Anyway, I am not arguing this anymore. No real point in it.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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I can name at least four separate LGTF runs I was a part of where a second Tanker joined or was about the join and someone asked them if they had anything else to play, preferably damage for the AVs. At least one of those times they were asked if they had a Corr, Defender or Controller to bring.|
Originally Posted by Acemace
When crossover zones were introduced with new co-op tf's the same predictions were offered ad nauseum.
Can anyone point to a personal experience of a forming team (lgtf/itf) asking the Tank if they happen to have a Brute they could switch to? |
I consider that stastically significant to my personal expereince because I have only run the LGTF nine or ten times.
On the ITF, the situation is slightly different for myself because I tend to run those in a fixed (or nearly fixed) team configuration that only usually includes heroes. Although I have one anecdote about an ITF featuring a Inv/SS Tanker and Stone/EM Tanker where the Stoner said something to the effect of "I was feeling kind of useless until now" refering to the infamous lag hill on the 3rd mission. I interpreted the remark to be more about his mobility and the fact that the enemies were coming to him at that point, rather than him having to meet them.
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It's true, once one person innovates, others will follow. Of course, in this game it has been proven time and again that buffs/debuffs are king, yet people still insist on "healers." Just did an ITF today with one PUG guy. "We going to grab a healer?" was the first thing he said. *shakes head*|
Originally Posted by _Deth_
What I have seen in other games, when someone figures out how to do it, others will catch on, and fast. A lot of those all damage brutes will see the opening in heroes content and jump on it, especially if they are in high demand. Dual builds only makes it more likely.
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Originally Posted by _Deth_
As it stands right now, I agree with you 100%. However, especially due to people having 2 builds to work with, and not everyone pvps, I can easily see brutes adopting a damage and a tanking build. Also, you can control aggro pretty well with many defensive sets without taunt, which I myself skip on some of my tanks and have no issues with aggro.
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I personally think it is an invaluable tool and could never see myself skipping it (unless it was a solo character or something). You can get by without it, but I always miss having it for those corner cases. Of course, I'm an aggro *****.At any rate, this is something for a completely different thread! Sorry for the small hijack.
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Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
Remember when a typical AVs regen was
 ? It was either find a Rad or fight the damn thing for 30 mins. Suddenly the world and his mum had a Rad and all I saw in globals was Rad this and Rad that. *throws up* |
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Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
Brutes and Tankers share the same powersets and caps apart from the damage cap. So Brutes can be made to effectively step on a Tankers and then do loads more damage.
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Perhaps you'll run into that on the "gotta have Stone, gotta have 'heal0rz', gotta have radiation" teams but you know, they get ridiculed for being blind fools for a reason... Seeking specific builds/ATs because they are somehow guaranteed to be "superior" is the hallmark of a bad leader, a bad team, and a bad player.
Brutes and Tankers share the same powersets and caps apart from the damage cap. So Brutes can be made to effectively step on a Tankers and then do loads more damage.
I am all for any team mix but many players are not so pick n mix inclined. In time certain things become law. The one way that everything is done, has to be done and there can't possibly be another way, a bit like getting a stone and an emp for the STF etc. Tanks could be less favourable.
I play my Brutes like a Tanker anyway.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.