FWIW, I regularly hit the Cim wall with Dark/Darks (I have one on both sides, Defender and Corr). Taking out three spawns at a time is no problem. (You can only aggro a bit less than two, but you can pull them onto the third. 
) I have purples in Night Fall (chosen because it's the one I wanted higher recharge in) so no damage proc, and a single Posi's Blast proc in TT as part of a set of 5 there.
It's no Fire/Kin, but it's a lot better than I think a lot of people realize.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Closet Blaster. |
Originally Posted by DodgerTA
/Archery is excruciatingly painful right up until 32. Rain of Arrows is a great attack;
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Kill the heretic!
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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That's why I don't use Soul Drain very often (TA/Dark/Dark). -Res is highly beneficial to a build like this, +Dam less so.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Proc idea made me wonder about a Kin/dark, but damage procs don't get boosted by +dmg and Kin can obviously damage cap anyway, so proc damage is a lesser amount respectively.
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That's about what it takes for me to burn through a spawn.|
Originally Posted by DodgerTA
It is still my belief that for straight damage-dealt-overall (ie, Time-to-kill a large spawn mob), Rad/Rad/Dark cannot be beaten. It usually takes 30s to kill a mob, and move to the next one to repeat the process.
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Technically, I can do two spawns at once every ~52s, one with OSA and another with TT + NF, but I'm lazy and don't use OSA as frequently as I "should".
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| /Dark is great, but requires you to move around a lot more; with Rad there's no lining up cones, you just stand in the middle and kill everything off while they are harmlessly nerfed around you. |
And TT with two level 50 Range IOs matches the range of NF, so you don't have to move at all, or get into melee range.
Quote:
Ubertruth.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
FWIW, I regularly hit the Cim wall with Dark/Darks (I have one on both sides, Defender and Corr). Taking out three spawns at a time is no problem. (You can only aggro a bit less than two, but you can pull them onto the third.
) I have purples in Night Fall (chosen because it's the one I wanted higher recharge in) so no damage proc, and a single Posi's Blast proc in TT as part of a set of 5 there.It's no Fire/Kin, but it's a lot better than I think a lot of people realize. |
I'm personally loving my TA/Ice. Also, according to my Mid's (ideal) build, PvE, my nuke does 1071 damage over 15 seconds up every 193 seconds. OSA does 545 over 30 seconds up every 82 seconds, and Ice Storm does 261 damage over 15 seconds up every 32.2 seconds, all of which are AoEs and the recharge does not account for Hasten. This neither takes Soul Drain's +DMG nor any of the -res from powers nor procs besides the two Posi's blasts in the nuke and Ice Storm.
He also will have 16% ranged defense, 12.6% AoE defense, and 10-11% defense on energy, negative, fire, and cold damage, leaving the rest at 3.5%. Smashing/Lethal at 38.9% resistance, Negative/Toxic at 21.2%, Cold/Fire at 12.3% resistance, 3% Psionic resistance and sadly 0% energy defense.
He has 4 holds each with the +2 Mag, 243% Regen, 190% Recovery, and 60% Recharge (not including Hasten). Two toggles totaling .32 endurance/second. Dark Consumption for more endurance for my post nuke of either set.
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
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Considering he said, "with Rad there's no lining up cones", I conclude he skipped that power. Standing in the middle using toggles, CC, Soul Drain, Irradiate, and Neutron Bomb. With Hasten and AM, even Irradiate is a twice a spawn power, to say nothing of adding IO +recharge.|
Originally Posted by Luminara
How do you use effectively Electron Haze in the middle of a spawn? Don't you have to... move?
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That being said, /Dark is also excellent AoE. For a Rad/, /Rad might be a bit better, just because you can leverage CC more effectively.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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The real advantage, actually, is not just the 16% damage increase. Frankly, I'm not sure that's alone worth it because you also lose Acc and End slotting.|
Originally Posted by Luminara
Base damage for TT is 33.8 over 8.77s (1.67s animation, 7.10 DoT duration). Slotted for damage, that's ~66.
Slotted with three standard damage procs (Posi's Blast, Trap of the Hunter and Clouded Senses) instead of damage, the average damage output becomes ~77 (20% chance for each proc to activate, 71.75 damage per proc, so average would 71.75 * 0.20 = 14.35. (14.35 * 3) + 33.8 = 76.85). |
The advantage is that TT is a relatively slow DoT, while the proc damage is instant. You often lose a good amount of potential TT damage due to killing a mob with 1-2 TT effects upon it already. So you're not really seeing that "true 66" damage out of TT over the life of a spawn, it's more like 55-60 due to the lost damage. So the effective damage increase is bigger than 1/6.
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Well, that's sort of why I asked how it could be done without moving.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Considering he said, "with Rad there's no lining up cones", I conclude he skipped that power. Standing in the middle using toggles, CC, Soul Drain, Irradiate, and Neutron Bomb. With Hasten and AM, even Irradiate is a twice a spawn power, to say nothing of adding IO +recharge.
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Irradiate has a 20s base recharge and deals 36.1 base damage. Neutron Bomb has a 16s base recharge and deals 32.5 base damage.
NF has a base 10s recharge and deals 39.8 base damage. TT has a base 10s recharge and deals 33.8 base damage.
So you've got two powers with slower recharge times and lower base damage in /Rad. If all other things are equal (primary, +Damage, +Recharge, -Res, procs, accuracy, etc.), the /Rad just isn't going to be dealing as much damage or dealing it as quickly as /Dark. The numbers just don't permit it. In order to surpass /Dark's damage output, the /Rad has to use Electron Haze.
Which requires moving.
Unless the /Rad is using Electron Haze and Neutron Bomb... but even then, the difference in recharge times (2x 10s versus 2x 16s) indicates that /Dark is still capable of matching or exceeding /Rad.
/Rad does have the advantage of all of its damage being delivered more quickly, though, even instantly if Irradiate is not used, which, as BlackSly noted, is the weak point in /Dark's damage output (and the reason i started playing around with procs in that power).
I was wondering if Kin/Ice combo would be as effective in terms of damage as compared to Kin/Arch
RoA is 100% Lethal with a good recharge rate, it recharges at around 15 seconds. For Ice, Ice Storm (50% lethal, 50% cold), it recharges at around 15 seconds as well if you have a good recharge rate. On top of that, you will have another Nuke on hand (Blizzard). With Transference, it is not hard to follow-up Blizzard with another Ice Storm to stack your damage over a 25 feet area. Hence, is it worth taking up Kin/Ice instead?
Anyway, just a side track, if I am using Ragnarok (KD proc), will the proc be calculated on at the start or the Ice Storm or would the chance to proc be calculated throughout the duration of the Ice Storm?
Opinion is heresy.
*Bump* 
Opinion is heresy.
Kin/Ice should be plenty good.
As for the ragnarok proc, if it works properly in ice storm, it'll have a chance to go off when you first drop the power and again at every ten second interval as long as the power is still going.
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Isn't Ice Storm considered a pet and only proc when it is first dropped out?|
Originally Posted by Garent
Kin/Ice should be plenty good.
As for the ragnarok proc, if it works properly in ice storm, it'll have a chance to go off when you first drop the power and again at every ten second interval as long as the power is still going. |
I seem to remember that at one point but I could easily be wrong on it.
Arc 52555: Tower of Darkness
Arc 139668: Bob's Crazy Car Dealership
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All pets with continuing effects, such as Ice Storm, Glue Arrow, Bonfire or anything similar is treated like a toggle for the purpose of procs. All procs will have a chance to trigger when the pet spawns and activates its power(s) and every 10s thereafter until the pet despawns.
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Originally Posted by Garrott
Isn't Ice Storm considered a pet and only proc when it is first dropped out?
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I was specifically referring to Rad/Rad/Dark. While /Dark is more damaging over time, Rad/Rad/Dark's concentric attacks and leveraging soul drain and using oneself as an aggro magnet to reduce spawn scatter and thus increase the effectiveness of your debuffs, I think /Rad comes out ahead. Especially, the ability to use Soul Drain as an attack before other attacks are fired (Dark is usually best when they use TT first to reduce enemy mobility) the damage potential from Irradiate/Neutron Bomb go up a lot, especially in larger mobs. |
Originally Posted by Luminara
Well, that's sort of why I asked how it could be done without moving.
Irradiate has a 20s base recharge and deals 36.1 base damage. Neutron Bomb has a 16s base recharge and deals 32.5 base damage. NF has a base 10s recharge and deals 39.8 base damage. TT has a base 10s recharge and deals 33.8 base damage. So you've got two powers with slower recharge times and lower base damage in /Rad. If all other things are equal (primary, +Damage, +Recharge, -Res, procs, accuracy, etc.), the /Rad just isn't going to be dealing as much damage or dealing it as quickly as /Dark. The numbers just don't permit it. In order to surpass /Dark's damage output, the /Rad has to use Electron Haze. Which requires moving. Unless the /Rad is using Electron Haze and Neutron Bomb... but even then, the difference in recharge times (2x 10s versus 2x 16s) indicates that /Dark is still capable of matching or exceeding /Rad. /Rad does have the advantage of all of its damage being delivered more quickly, though, even instantly if Irradiate is not used, which, as BlackSly noted, is the weak point in /Dark's damage output (and the reason i started playing around with procs in that power). |
The 20s base recharge timers come down to about 7s or less with Hasten/AM and sets or slotted recharges.
The AoE/PBAoE nature of Irradiate/Neutron Bomb allows it to hit more targets consistently than having to line up cones.
Electron Haze is no good for this tactic. Yes, it does better damage, but the knockback seems to prefer hitting my anchor and nobody else... so I never take it.
Actually, I was thinking of Dark/Ice/Dark setup.
To hit debuff + Resist debuff + double slow (tar patch + ice storm) to keep mob within AOE effect. If you have a Kin nearby for FS goodness = total pwnage. Only issue I have is that it will be harder to get higher recharge rate because I don't have Siphon Speed.
The whole idea is to have Ice Storm up for every pull.
Opinion is heresy.
This is the build I currently have for my TA/Ice Defender. Not only are suggestions nice, but it gives an idea of what TA/Ice can do with just what I've come up with.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Arrow of Theta: Level 50 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Secondary Power Set: Ice Blast
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Flash Arrow -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(5), DarkWD-Slow%(9)
Level 1: Ice Bolt -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 2: Glue Arrow -- TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(A), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(3)
Level 4: Frost Breath -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(5), Posi-Dmg/Rng(7), Posi-Dam%(34)
Level 6: Ice Arrow -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(7), Lock-Rchg/Hold(11), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), Lock-%Hold(39)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 10: Poison Gas Arrow -- FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(A), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(11), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(17), FtnHyp-Plct%(25), FtnHyp-Sleep(43)
Level 12: Acid Arrow -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(13), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(13), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(21), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(42), AnWeak-DefDeb(43)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(15), Mrcl-Rcvry+(15)
Level 16: Freeze Ray -- UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(17), UbrkCons-Hold(36), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(37), UbrkCons-Dam%(37), Lock-%Hold(39)
Level 18: Disruption Arrow -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21)
Level 22: Ice Storm -- Posi-Dmg/Rng(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(23), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), Posi-Dam%(45)
Level 24: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Oil Slick Arrow -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(27), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Ragnrk-Knock%(46), Achilles-ResDeb%(46)
Level 28: Bitter Ice Blast -- Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Dmg(29), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(42), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apoc-Dam%(43)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31), Zephyr-ResKB(31)
Level 32: EMP Arrow -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(33), Lock-Rchg/Hold(33), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(40), Lock-%Hold(50)
Level 35: Bitter Freeze Ray -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(36), Lock-Rchg/Hold(36), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(37), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(46), Lock-%Hold(48)
Level 38: Blizzard -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(40), Posi-Dmg/Rng(40), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 41: Dark Consumption -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(45), Aegis-Psi/Status(45)
Level 47: Soul Drain -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
It is still my belief that for straight damage-dealt-overall (ie, Time-to-kill a large spawn mob), Rad/Rad/Dark cannot be beaten. It usually takes 30s to kill a mob, and move to the next one to repeat the process. It can take more if there are energy resistant mobs, but there are a lot more energy-weak mobs (like Freakshow) than energy-resistant ones (like Sappers). Also, the AoE focus is more endurance efficient against a large mob spawn than any other set except /Dark
Energy Blast and Sonic Blast are both half-and-half Smashing and Energy, and there's an awful lot of stuff that resists Smashing. Sonic's debuffs increase damage dealt significantly, but only stack on one target at a time. This makes /Sonic a great AV killer, but lousy for killing big spawns.
/Dark is great, but requires you to move around a lot more; with Rad there's no lining up cones, you just stand in the middle and kill everything off while they are harmlessly nerfed around you.
/Archery is excruciatingly painful right up until 32. Rain of Arrows is a great attack; however, it is slow to execute, and in teams you will often find that even if you use it right after putting up your toggles, most things will be dead before it hits them if you have another AoE-centric toon on your team.
Also, another perk of /Rad over /Sonic is that /Rad can slot an Achilles' Heel proc in any and/or every attack.While not quite as effective as /Sonic's debuff, it will make an noticeable difference, especialy if you slot it in your AoEs