Night Widow optimised for tough single targets
By
Effy_On_Malibu,
Posted on: 2009-05-13 13:24 in Soldiers of Arachnos
Ahh sweet, that really is pimped, my current build, doesn't have aidself, and doesn't rely on mindlink to get soft cap, but in doing this i think i've gimped myself.
i didn't pick eviserate or dart burst because of longer recharge/animation. But again it leaves me with less powerful attacks, i'll load the build onto mids when i get home an really check it out, overall this looks very nice, nice ammount of +recharge.
BUT no smoke grenade? say whaaat :P
i'll comment back soon, an post my build, see what you think.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
Once again i'd like to thank you if i could base my widow build off of this. It's very ambitious, and very powerful, and creative with the sets and bonuses, and i like that.
Here's mine,
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
purp: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart <ul type="square">[*] (A) Accuracy/Damage[*] (3) Damage/Endurance[*] (3) Damage/Recharge[*] (5) Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge[*] (5) Accuracy/Damage/Recharge[/list]Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive <ul type="square">[*] (A) Defense[*] (7) Defense/Endurance[*] (15) Recharge Speed[/list]Level 2: Strike <ul type="square">[*] (A) Accuracy/Damage[*] (15) Damage/Endurance[*] (17) Damage/Recharge[*] (17) Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge[*] (21) Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (21) Chance of Damage(Lethal)[/list]Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers <ul type="square">[*] (A) Defense[*] (7) Recharge Speed[*] (9) Defense/Endurance[*] (9) Defense/Recharge[/list]Level 6: Hurdle <ul type="square">[*] (A) Jumping IO[/list]Level 8: Combat Jumping <ul type="square">[*] (A) Defense[*] (11) Defense/Endurance[*] (11) Defense/Endurance[/list]Level 10: Indomitable Will <ul type="square">[*] (A) Resistance/Endurance[*] (13) Resistance/Recharge[*] (13) Resistance[/list]Level 12: Mental Blast <ul type="square">[*] (A) Damage[*] (25) Damage/Recharge[*] (27) Accuracy/Damage/Recharge[*] (27) Accuracy/Recharge[*] (29) Damage/Endurance[/list]Level 14: Lunge <ul type="square">[*] (A) Accuracy/Damage[*] (34) Damage/Endurance[*] (34) Damage/Recharge[*] (34) Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (37) Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[/list]Level 16: Spin <ul type="square">[*] (A) Damage[*] (46) Damage/Recharge[*] (48) Accuracy/Damage/Recharge[*] (48) Accuracy/Recharge[*] (48) Damage/Endurance[*] (50) Chance for Fire Damage[/list]Level 18: Hasten <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (19) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (19) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 20: Build Up <ul type="square">[*] (A) To Hit Buff[*] (31) To Hit Buff/Recharge[*] (31) To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance[*] (42) Recharge/Endurance[*] (43) To Hit Buff/Endurance[*] (43) Chance for Build Up[/list]Level 22: Smoke Grenade <ul type="square">[*] (A) To Hit Debuff[*] (23) To Hit Debuff/Endurance[*] (23) To Hit Debuff/Recharge[*] (25) Recharge/Endurance[/list]Level 24: Slash <ul type="square">[*] (A) Damage[*] (31) Damage/Recharge[*] (37) Accuracy/Damage/Recharge[*] (40) Accuracy/Recharge[*] (42) Damage/Endurance[/list]Level 26: Foresight <ul type="square">[*] (A) Resistance/+Def 3%[/list]Level 28: Mask Presence <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Speed[*] (29) Defense[*] (46) Defense/Endurance[/list]Level 30: Mental Training <ul type="square">[*] (A) Run Speed IO[/list]Level 32: Mind Link <ul type="square">[*] (A) Defense[*] (33) Defense/Endurance[*] (33) Defense/Recharge[*] (33) Recharge Speed[/list]Level 35: Health <ul type="square">[*] (A) Heal[*] (36) +Regeneration/+Recovery[*] (36) +Regeneration[*] (36) +Recovery[*] (37) Healing IO[/list]Level 38: Stamina <ul type="square">[*] (A) EndMod[*] (39) EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge[*] (39) EndMod/Recharge[*] (39) Accuracy/Recharge[*] (40) EndMod/Accuracy[*] (40) EndMod/Endurance[/list]Level 41: Eviscerate <ul type="square">[*] (A) Damage[*] (42) Accuracy/Recharge[*] (43) Damage/Recharge[*] (45) Accuracy/Damage/Recharge[*] (45) Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (46) Chance for Smashing Damage[/list]Level 44: Placate <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (45) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 47: Super Jump <ul type="square">[*] (A) Endurance Reduction IO[/list]Level 49: Elude <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (50) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (50) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]------------
Level 1: Brawl <ul type="square">[*] (A) Damage Increase IO[/list]Level 1: Sprint <ul type="square">[*] (A) +Stealth[/list]Level 2: Rest <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 1: Conditioning
------------
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[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]15% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]15% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]15% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]15% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]15% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]15% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]15% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]15% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]6.13% Defense(Smashing)[*]6.13% Defense(Lethal)[*]4.25% Defense(Fire)[*]4.25% Defense(Cold)[*]6.13% Defense(Energy)[*]6.13% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]9.25% Defense(Melee)[*]9.25% Defense(Ranged)[*]5.5% Defense(AoE)[*]2.25% Max End[*]64% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]86.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]5% FlySpeed[*]160.6 HP (15%) HitPoints[*]5% JumpHeight[*]5% JumpSpeed[*]MezResist(Held) 3.3%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 8.25%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 2.2%[*]MezResist(Stun) 2.2%[*]18.5% (0.32 End/sec) Recovery[*]68% (3.65 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]5.04% Resistance(Fire)[*]5.04% Resistance(Cold)[*]5% Resistance(Toxic)[*]5% RunSpeed[/list]------------
[u]Set Bonuses:[u]
[u]Decimation[u]
(Poison Dart)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%[*] 12 HP (1.12%) HitPoints[*] 2.25% Max End[*] 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Gift of the Ancients[u]
(Combat Training: Defensive)<ul type="square">[*] 2% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[/list][u]Luck of the Gambler[u]
(Combat Training: Defensive)<ul type="square">[*] 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Mako's Bite[u]
(Strike)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%[*] 16.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints[*] 3% DamageBuff(All)[*] MezResist(Held) 3.3%[*] 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)[/list][u]Luck of the Gambler[u]
(Tactical Training: Maneuvers)<ul type="square">[*] 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration[*] 12 HP (1.12%) HitPoints[*] 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Gift of the Ancients[u]
(Combat Jumping)<ul type="square">[*] 2% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[/list][u]Titanium Coating[u]
(Indomitable Will)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Sleep) 2.2%[*] 16.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints[/list][u]Apocalypse[u]
(Mental Blast)<ul type="square">[*] 16% (0.86 HP/sec) Regeneration[*] 32.1 HP (3%) HitPoints[*] 4% DamageBuff(All)[*] 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Crushing Impact[u]
(Lunge)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%[*] 12 HP (1.12%) HitPoints[*] 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Armageddon[u]
(Spin)<ul type="square">[*] 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery[*] 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)[*] 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*] 5% Resistance(Toxic)[/list][u]Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control[u]
(Build Up)<ul type="square">[*] 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed[*] 20.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints[*] 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[*] 2.5% DamageBuff(All)[*] 2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing), 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative), 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)[/list][u]Dark Watcher's Despair[u]
(Smoke Grenade)<ul type="square">[*] 16.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints[*] 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[*] 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Hecatomb[u]
(Slash)<ul type="square">[*] 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery[*] 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)[*] 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Steadfast Protection[u]
(Foresight)<ul type="square">[*] 3% Defense(All)[/list][u]Luck of the Gambler[u]
(Mask Presence)<ul type="square">[*] 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration[*] 12 HP (1.12%) HitPoints[*] 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Luck of the Gambler[u]
(Mind Link)<ul type="square">[*] 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration[*] 12 HP (1.12%) HitPoints[*] 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Numina's Convalescence[u]
(Health)<ul type="square">[*] 12% (0.64 HP/sec) Regeneration[/list][u]Efficacy Adaptor[u]
(Stamina)<ul type="square">[*] 12 HP (1.12%) HitPoints (Exceeded 5 Bonus Cap)[*] 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery[*] 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration[*] 2.5% DamageBuff(All)[*] 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Obliteration[u]
(Eviscerate)<ul type="square">[*] MezResist(Stun) 2.2%[*] 3% DamageBuff(All)[*] 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*] 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.88% Defense(Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Smashing)[/list]
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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No mines purely for DoT, i'll build a secondry build Fort an control etc 
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
The title states: "Night Widow optimised for tough single targets"
If this build has costed you around 2.3-2.5 billion like you say, then from this and the title, should I confirm that this is an AV soloing build?
If not, could you explain what you're referring to by "tough single targets"? :P
This build is amazing, thanks for making it availible vald to uncreative naablets like me in need of uber builds.
[ QUOTE ]
The title states: "Night Widow optimised for tough single targets"
If this build has costed you around 2.3-2.5 billion like you say, then from this and the title, should I confirm that this is an AV soloing build?
If not, could you explain what you're referring to by "tough single targets"? :P
[/ QUOTE ]
The main aim of the build is high single target dps and survivability, though without losing flexibility for taking down spawns quickly (hence taking Spin/Evisc/DBurst), so yes I'm hoping this build will be able to solo AVs as I know GMs will be impossible without major -regen (too many times I've been the player on a full 8-player GM-killing team that had to give up using the character I wanted to use, to go get my /Dark or /Rad instead for some -regen debuffing, and then the GM went down very fast).
Honestly I don't play my L50s that much, so this build is just a luxury item for when I need to fill some solo time and fancy taking on tough challenges - and as a main endgame TF/SF/Raid character for me (though I suspect I'll still play my Fire/Rad and Bane/Crab from time to time on TFs/SFs, as I do now). I'm as curious about what this build will be capable of as you are - that's the main idea - pushing the envelope. Doing the RWZ and Pylon challenges are certainly first on the list (and in the RWZ challenge the only real challenge is surviving long enough to kill those 3 L54 bosses), AVs will follow, and I'd quite like to trying soloing a L54 Rikti Magus EB on the MS Raid without running to the cover of a healing blanket when I get hit (like my Bane needs to do it). Tough MA arcs are also on the challenge list - some custom critters I've run into in MA have minced some of my 50s that have had zero problems with EBs outside of MA.
[ QUOTE ]
Ahh sweet, that really is pimped, my current build, doesn't have aidself, and doesn't rely on mindlink to get soft cap, but in doing this i think i've gimped myself.
i didn't pick eviserate or dart burst because of longer recharge/animation. But again it leaves me with less powerful attacks, i'll load the build onto mids when i get home an really check it out, overall this looks very nice, nice ammount of +recharge.
BUT no smoke grenade? say whaaat :P
i'll comment back soon, an post my build, see what you think.
[/ QUOTE ]
Even soft-capped an AV will still have 7.5% chance to hit you (an EB 6.5%, and everything else 5%) so the -ToHit from the Smoke Grenade doesn't really do much once you're soft-capped (unless you're fighting higher than +5s...), even though it is unresistable. And I can get the -perception effect from the Day Job smoke grenade, if I needed it - I don't see this build needing to worry about getting single pulls 
Eviscerate and Dart Burst are there for the same reason Spin is - to wipe out minions/lieuts in spawns quickly - and because I love the animations of both. Plus Dart Burst lets me use another purple set (with a knockdown IO in it, for alpha-strike mitigation), doesn't cause claw redraw, gives me a ranged attack chain with Poison Dart that doesn't cost much end (for flying targets, when you're webbed down or can't be bothered to fly/jump up to them), and frankly it just looks and sounds very cool.
Not having Aid Self is really going to be limiting if you want to try the RWZ or Pylon challenges. It is what makes my Bane incapable of them (that and the fact he's only soft-capped to Ranged). Even with defence soft-capped you ARE going to get hit eventually, and against AVs and L54 Chief Soldiers you will be hit for most of your health, so one more hit soon afterwards, from anything, will kill you stone dead. You need a source of healing other than insps, as the RWZ and Pylon challenges expressly forbid insps and you don't always have green insps either. I'm still trying to fit Aid Self into my Bane (I'm currently planning an expensive build for him as I'm almost back up to 2 billion inf total on redside, after having bought all the enhs needed for this widow), but I don't like what I'd have to sacrifice from his current build to get it.
Your build looks good though - tbh I find builds a very personal thing - you have to find what works for your playstyle. Some of my picks did come down to my playstyle or concept choices (i.e. I did not want any psi attacks). Also my Bane, like my Corrs/Doms, spends a large part of the time debuffing (or placating) - for my Widow I just wanted continuous dps with no prep time - hence no Smoke Grenade nor Placate (Bane will always be better for initial burst dps in a single hit, so my Bane has placate - he's my "stalker" VEAT, so I built my widow more like a "scrapper" VEAT as the speed of widow attacks seemed to suit that better).
[ QUOTE ]
This build is amazing, thanks for making it availible vald to uncreative naablets like me in need of uber builds.
[/ QUOTE ]
No probs 
[ QUOTE ]
Once again i'd like to thank you if i could base my widow build off of this. It's very ambitious, and very powerful, and creative with the sets and bonuses, and i like that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, go for it. You may want to tweak it for your playstyle, but I don't mind if you copy it whole. I borrow lots of ideas from other people's posted builds, but honestly I always tailor my builds exactly to what I want (or what I'm willing to spend - not such an issue these days - though it has been in the past). You just need to have a clear idea of what you want from a build and then craft it towards that end.
As I've said, the central tenet of the above build was getting enough +rchg that I could skip taking Swipe but still have a gap-less single target attack chain. Once that was achieved I still had some room for tweaking the build to my concept and power needs.
I still don't know exactly how the build will pan out in practical terms, though - though I should in the next day or two - my Widow is currently level 48.5 and I expect she will hit L50 sometime tomorrow... errr today... is that really the time? I need to go to bed
I swapped aid self for elude. That's about all i did to it, and i swapped the hecatomb and put it into slash, and put asrmageddon into eviscerate. gave elude a luck of the gambler set. Also i put an adjusted targetting set into follow up.
I think this way it still has tons of recharge and the defense is excellent, but can still have 3 minutes of godmode from elude xP
Quick question, why did you put a chance for build up in the follow up move? Will it stack with follow up if the chance % is successful?
What chain are you planning to use valdamar?
I hit L50 with my Night Widow late on Saturday. I slotted all of the IOs, exactly as per the build posted in the OP, and immediately went to RWZ with my friend. He was playing his Widow as well (which is also purpled up with a few LotGs) and we duo'd a pylon in well under 10mins (nearer 5mins probably but I didn't time it). Admittedly it did seem to take slightly longer than when his Widow and my Bane duo pylons, but I put that down to the -res debuffs on the Bane making a big difference.
After my friend logged I attempted the RWZ challenge (L54 spawn, 3 Rikti bosses, no temps/insps nor accolade powers nor godmodes, no pulling/splitting/disengaging) and the build absolutely aced it and never seemed in danger of dying. After doing the RWZ challenge I went looking for another L54 spawn with 3 bosses to try it again, just to make sure I hadn't fluked it (though arguably with defence-based builds luck does play a large part). What I actually found was a spawn with 4 L54 Rikti bosses (3 Chief Soldiers, 1 Chief Mesmerist) and a couple of lieuts/minions - I totally annihilated that spawn as well without dying - and I went on to try various other L53 and L54 spawns with no issues at all.
The Rikti assault suit EBs died very fast as well - I tried several at L52-54 - admittedly they're not much of a challenge as my Bane can solo them without insps - but still, it showed me how fast an EB can fall to this build. In normal missions too the build far exceeds my expectations - very smooth, fast at killing, and very survivable. The only time I suffered a cascade defence failure and almost died was against PPD peacebringers in the Peregrine mayhem, but admittedly I had herded up a few spawns of them at the time (so my friend's Crab could knock them down quickly), and I still didn't die (I ducked out of sight until my def recovered). I suspect Cimeroran Traitors (who also have lots of -def) might be dangerous in large numbers, but I haven't faced them yet.
It's not all roses though - now the drawback... the build is not completely end-balanced. After doing the RWZ challenge a few times I inevitably tried the Pylon challenge. I could get a Pylon down to 75% pretty easily and swiftly (a few minutes), but then I'd have to worry about endurance. I could drop Slash from the attack chain and use Poison Dart instead, and that allowed me to regain end for a while (slowly), but it reduced dps so much that the pylon would take ages to defeat. The problem with extending the fight time against a pylon is that the second problem becomes more likely to happen...
When a Pylon does hit you through your defence (a 5% chance I think, due to the clamp, though it might be 7.5% like AVs - I need to check as I didn't think to at the time) your health drops to almost zero - in fact I think the one-shot code was saving me. I could immediately heal back 400-ish of my 1200-ish HP with Aid Self (4.33sec anim time). By the time I could use Aid Self again (5.26sec recharge time on my build) it would restore me to full health, because my regen healed the remaining lost health in the meantime. However during that time between the first and second Aid Self the Pylon would get another attack on me.
This means that if the Pylon gets "lucky" and hits through your defences twice in a row you get killed. On all 4 of my attempts this happened - twice at around 75% health left on the pylon and twice at around 50%. Maybe I was just unlucky and I could fluke it all the way through a pylon without it hitting me twice in a row, but after 4 failed attempts I got a bit bored of it and went back to killing L54 Rikti for purple drops What was quite amusing was that on one attempt I got the pylon nearest the Vanguard base to 50% and actually got back from the hospital before it had regenned past 75% - so maybe I could do it without insps, but with a few deaths, hehe.
Of course both issues could be cured by using blue and green inspirations, but I believe the Pylon Challenge expressly forbids their use so I didn't bother to try with them as it would have felt like cheating the challenge.
I have been working on getting the 2 +end accolades - getting both will increase end recovery from 3.47 end/sec to 3.82 end/sec - I had factored that into my original build and it should help a lot. If it doesn't then it could be that the only way to get an end-balanced widow will be by dropping Slash for Swipe, but I'd rather not do that as it would affect dps in normal conditions and I think the build is pretty awesome as it is now - plus I like having a big-hitter like Slash.
With regards to the health issues, the +HP accolades may help (I have Invader already), but I think with Pylons it will always be the case that if they get two "lucky" hits in a row this build will be defeated without using a green insp on top of Aid Self. I can only assume that the /SR scrappers that have done the pylon challenge did so by using insps, or just kept attempting it until they didn't get hit by the pylon twice in a row.
I haven't tried any AVs yet. I want to get the accolades first to fully optimise the build.
I am disappointed this build can't do the Pylon challenge (yet), but then that's hardly intended gameplay and this is a pretty amazing build in all other respects. It's easily worth the inf spent so far - it just feels awesome to play a character where all the powers recharge so quickly. The only time I've experienced that before was on my perma-dom and he isn't anywhere near as awesome as this widow.
[ QUOTE ]
Quick question, why did you put a chance for build up in the follow up move? Will it stack with follow up if the chance % is successful?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, when it goes off it stacks with however much Follow-up I have already stacked (usually triple-stacked if last 3 applications hit). I did notice my dps spiking a few times, but whether the BU proc gives more overall dps boost than a normal damage proc I don't know - that's something for a mathematician to work out. For now I'm fairly content to leave the BU proc in, because it's very noticeable when it fires, moreso than damage procs (though they do activate more often and directly contribute damage instead of boosting dps).
[ QUOTE ]
What chain are you planning to use valdamar?
[/ QUOTE ]
Slash -> FU -> Lunge -> Strike
Slash is the opener (for the crit from stealth in the first round of combat), then Follow-up for the buff, then Lunge because it is next highest in damage, then Strike because it is the only melee single target attack left that isn't in cooldown, then back to Slash, rinse & repeat.
However there is a very brief gap (like a quarter-second) before Slash comes back up again and, while I didn't think I'd notice it with my connection, it did start to bug me a little (note:- the extra 20% rchg from the Base Empowerment Station pretty much cures the gap, as it is very slight).
As a result I'm considering a respec to swap the Hecatomb set from FU into Slash (then the CI set from Slash will go into FU). This should close the perceived gap, at cost of a slight drop in dps (as Slash's base damage is higher than FUs and the 5 Hecatombs give 89.92% dmg enhancement compared to the 5 CIs giving 97.49% dmg enhancement).
Though I must admit I'm not sure whether to use the numbers from Mids or City of Data for animation times, as I know from reading some of BaB's and Arcanaville's posts on the US forum that there are other factors (such as your connection) which skew the numbers a little - so it is hard to know whether the perceived gap would be cured by that respec without actually trying it (which I may have to do on Test Server at some stage).
I also suspect that respec might have terrible consequences on the endurance situation. My original reasoning for putting Hecatomb (all but Dam) in FU was partly because it only gives 33% endrdx, whereas 5 CIs (all but Acc/Dam) give 68.9% endrdx - with Slash costing a lot more end than FU it makes the chain more end-efficient if Hecatomb is in a lower end-cost attack. In addition to that the difference in damage enhancement between Hecatomb and CI (as slotted above) made it more sensible to put Hecatomb in FU - the lowest damage attack in the chain - rather than Strike.
Whether I do that respec is going to be a difficult decision, but it is one that can wait until I have the +end accolades and can see what effect they have on both the current build and on the respecced build (when I try it on Test).
Btw I exemped down to L40 on Sunday (to get a badge for an accolade) and of course that dropped the build down to 110% global recharge (4 purple sets + hasten). By necessity I had to include Poison Dart in my attack chain to eliminate gaps, but it worked well enough and the build still felt powerful, and Mind Link was still perma (though Hasten wasn't, of course). If you exemp down a lot (I hardly ever do) I would probably suggest taking Swipe in addition to the other attacks I've taken.
Though in normal gameplay this build will never be without an attack you can use - besides the normal chain you'll also be using Dart Burst, Spin & Eviscerate against multiple enemies, and Dart Burst and Poison Dart together is pretty much a ranged attack chain (you can use PDart, then DBurst, then PDart again with zero gaps and that does enough damage to kill a minion).
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What chain are you planning to use valdamar?
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Slash -> FU -> Lunge -> Strike
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Slash according to mids recharges in 4,43, to run it seemless it would have to recharge in 3,43.
Seemless it would also have the eps of 4,85(ouch)
which would result in a 2,02 drain with the build in the op.
Remember that hasten is -15 end every 120 seconds as well.
a one second pause would lower it to 3,92 eps
EDIT: OOPS ss was checked corrected post
also if you have cj just for the for the kismet why not get combat training offensive?
Myself would skip the ToD procs and put makos acc/end/rech in all attacks and either a end/rech(gaussians or adjusted targeting), crughing impact dmg/end or dmg/end/rech in follow up
I would also take a slot of hasten put a end redux in indom will and remove the eradication proc from spin(assault covers the lack of damage slotting and put an interrupt redux in aid self.
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What chain are you planning to use valdamar?
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Slash -> FU -> Lunge -> Strike
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Slash according to mids recharges in 4,43, to run it seemless it would have to recharge in 3,43.
Seemless it would also have the eps of 4,85(ouch)
which would result in a 2,02 drain with the build in the op.
Remember that hasten is -15 end every 120 seconds as well.
a one second pause would lower it to 3,92 eps
EDIT: OOPS ss was checked corrected post
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I don't think you can go entirely off Mids, City of Data or even the in-game "real" numbers - latency has a huge effect on things. Arcanaville did a post about it on US forums, but I can't seem to find it atm (I hate the US forum search). My connection is not that brilliant and when I play the build there is only a very slight pause before Slash is back up - I just need to correct that, but not if it's going to destroy the end-usage even further for my build.
Using Mids the full attack chain takes 1.33s + 0.83s + 0.83s + 1.17s = 4.16seconds - I'm not sure what it adds up to in "Arcanatime" though - tbh I'm trying not to get that technical as I only care how the build feels and plays on my PC/connection - and in that situation I'm only seeing a very slight delay until Slash recharges. Honestly I'm more interested in how the build feels practically than how it looks theoretically atm (and it feels great all the time apart from when trying to solo a pylon).
And yeah hasten's "crash" is certainly part of the end issue - I was hoping the +end proc in Stamina would offset that Hasten crash over time, but it doesn't seem to work as well as I'd hoped.
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also if you have cj just for the for the kismet why not get combat training offensive?
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Easy - I don't have CJ just for the Kismet.
CJ is just a convenient place to put the Kismet because nothing else I could put there does as much for the build. I mainly took CJ because I hate not having CJ+Hurdle for in-combat movement - it is essential to my playstyle. CJ also makes superspeed a lot less annoying for me to use (I tend to prefer SJ, though SS+CJ is generally faster and more useful indoors).
Oh and Combat Training: Offensive is pretty worthless for this build (and in general): +10% Acc, even enhanced up to +19.9% (worth slightly more than an Acc DO in every attack) with 3 L50 Acc IOs, is nowhere near as useful as +6% ToHit from the Kismet - especially on a build that already has +7.8% ToHit from Mind Link all the time, plus 10% ToHit from every stacked FU (up to 3 times), +75% global Acc from set bonuses and 40-60% Acc slotted in every attack.
This build isn't short of Acc - it has more than enough (most hit-rolls are hitting the 95% clamp as it is) - I'm sure more ToHit would be nice for Eluding-AV situations (e.g. Mako, Mynx, etc.), but I can always fall back on using a yellow to help get FU stacking if I hit any ultra-rare situations like that. So far I haven't had any trouble hitting through Behemoth invinc, Deathmage's chill of the night, Nemesis Vengeance +def, etc. in normal gameplay so I think the Acc/ToHit balance is ok as is.
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Myself would skip the ToD procs and put makos acc/end/rech in all attacks and either a end/rech(gaussians or adjusted targeting), crughing impact dmg/end or dmg/end/rech in follow up
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The Acc/End/Rech is something I'll consider if I can't correct the end issues - it's something I've done on other characters instead of putting procs in the 6th slot after the 5 CIs. I went with procs here because it is a dps build and procs add a lot of damage over time (and negative energy is resisted a lot less than lethal/toxic too, so it's a significant addition) - plus night widow attacks are so fast that the build will proc a lot in extended fights (which it was designed for).
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I would also take a slot of hasten put a end redux in indom will and
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Then Hasten would no longer be perma - the existing 5.1 sec overlap, would become a 0.3sec overlap with two slots, which wouldn't be an overlap at all due to Hasten's 0.73 casting time. The existing 4.37sec overlap (5.1 sec, less cast time) lets me pick where in my attack chain I let Hasten refresh (as I have it on auto and usually queue attacks), and also gives you some insurance against being slowed or suffering latency and losing Hasten for too long.
And Indomitable Will doesn't cost much end - I've simulated the 0.06 end/sec saving (that I could get by adding a slot of endrdx to IW) by switching off CJ - believe me, it isn't noticeable. I ran a pylon fight without Mask Presence (saving 0.14 end/sec) and even that wasn't really noticeable. Most of the end-drain on this build (like most builds) comes from the click power attacks, not the toggles. Though yeah, on extended fights it all adds up.
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remove the eradication proc from spin(assault covers the lack of damage slotting
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Not sure what you mean by Assault covering the lack of damage slotting - more damage is always good (I wish I could run pool Assault as well!). A proc in Spin will more than pay for itself in normal fights, because with a 20% chance of proccing it should hit at least 2 of the 10 targets you can hit with Spin. Sure, it's a slot I could move if it was critically needed elsewhere, but I've yet to think of anywhere it could do more good.
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and put an interrupt redux in aid self.
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Imho it doesn't need it. Not on a defence-based build. I have no trouble firing it off with careful planning and tbh I only took it for use during the RWZ/Pylon/AV challenges - in normal gameplay it's not really needed at all.
The times Aid Self is difficult to use on a def-based build are the times no amount of intrdx would help (on Quicksand/Caltrops, near CoT crystals, etc) - and it pays to keep a column of Respites in your tray for situations like that. Sure, my En/Elec brute uses intrdx in his Aid Self (2 of them), but he's resist-based - the builds with decent defence (my Night Widow, Stalker and Blaster) tend to be fine without it. Plus if you're being overwhelmed there's always the option of jumping behind/around terrain to buy time to use it.
Thanks for the comments though - some of them did get me thinking about the build from different perspectives. Ultimately I don't think there are any perfect builds because players are always going to differ over what they want and what is more important to them - tbh I think that is one of the main strengths of this game, that no two characters are the same and everyone can fully customise their builds. Compared to most other mainstream MMOs (where everyone looks the same and has pretty much the same powers/skills as someone of the same race/class) that's very refreshing.
Thanks for the build, it was my only motivation for making a widow! It's now level 14 and well on the way to becoming that uber DPS monster you created, x)
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I don't think you can go entirely off Mids, City of Data or even the in-game "real" numbers - latency has a huge effect on things. Arcanaville did a post about it on US forums, but I can't seem to find it atm (I hate the US forum search). My connection is not that brilliant and when I play the build there is only a very slight pause before Slash is back up - I just need to correct that, but not if it's going to destroy the end-usage even further for my build.
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I used arcanatime in my calcs although i´m not sure if its the same on eu anymore since latency can pretty crappy here.
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Though yeah, on extended fights it all adds up.
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thats my main concern when i make my personal builds.
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The times Aid Self is difficult to use on a def-based build are the times no amount of intrdx would help (on Quicksand/Caltrops, near CoT crystals, etc) - and it pays to keep a column of Respites in your tray for situations like that. Sure, my En/Elec brute uses intrdx in his Aid Self (2 of them), but he's resist-based - the builds with decent defence (my Night Widow, Stalker and Blaster) tend to be fine without it. Plus if you're being overwhelmed there's always the option of jumping behind/around terrain to buy time to use it.
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I just like being able to heal through DoT´s. Something that saved my Fire/SR a lot. Especially since i´m being so lazy to get the accolades, i like badging but explorations are so boring.
Anyway heres a template you can use to check stuff if you need it.
I copied it from my tanker chart, no recharge calcs since i havent found a formula that does it properly i have to do it manually.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZT5IHKY2
Vald, if you're already playing on this build ingame can ya tell me what it's like? Looking at it in mids it's already a godly beast of a combatant.
It must play like a dream right? I hope one day i can have one like it x)
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I used arcanatime in my calcs although i´m not sure if its the same on eu anymore since latency can pretty crappy here.
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Ahh ok - I think any calcs using that will be way off for my connection anyway - I live on one of the Channel Islands, connected to the UK by a copper cable laid probably over a century ago, and as if to make matters worse I'm more than 4km from the telephone exchange (max dist for a good connection for ADSL, apparently). Also my ISP likes to throttle down our speed in the hope we won't notice and only put it back up when we complain - plus they're just generally rubbish, and while they don't have a monopoly anymore they do own/maintain all of the infrastructure, so there's little point switching to the more expensive alternatives.
For me the gap seems very minor, but it may prove enough for me to reconsider the build and fit Swipe in. I'm sure the obscene amount of global recharge will still prove handy. The problem will be deciding what to drop - it would need to be something that gave me 5 slots as well, which probably means either Eviscerate, Spin or Dart Burst and I kinda like having all 3. I'd probably drop Eviscerate tbh as Spin is PBAE and can hit more targets, and Dart Burst is needed for Ragnarok and my ranged chain, plus I just like it.
I may also move Hecatomb to Slash, as mentioned earlier, and stick a common EndRdx in the last slot and see what effect it has on the end usage of the full attack chain.
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Though yeah, on extended fights it all adds up.
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thats my main concern when i make my personal builds.
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I usually build for def or rchg, but try to make sure a build is end-balanced for normal play (during which the most extended fight will be 3-4mins on an AV while teamed). I did think the amount of endrdx and +recov in this build would be sufficient - and it certainly is for normal play - but it might be that a Widow will need 80-90+% endrdx in every attack to be able to do the pylon challenge or particularly long AV fights solo.
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I just like being able to heal through DoT´s. Something that saved my Fire/SR a lot.
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Even with 2 IntRdx in his Aid Self my en/elec brute struggled to heal through fire/toxic DoTs or Gloom. It might be my connection though - I can usually heal through a couple of mobs attacking me, even with no intrdx, by timing it so the interruptible portion occurs between their attacks, but DoTs are obviously faster than that.
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Especially since i´m being so lazy to get the accolades, i like badging but explorations are so boring.
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I don't mind the explores - they're easy to get - it's the ones you have to mindlessly grind for that annoy me. I'm not a badger though so it's all just stuff I'm doing towards an end goal, using time when I could have been doing something I enjoy more
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Vald, if you're already playing on this build ingame can ya tell me what it's like? Looking at it in mids it's already a godly beast of a combatant.
It must play like a dream right? I hope one day i can have one like it x)
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Well I haven't actually logged into CoH/V since Friday because I've been rather ill. Plus most of my time online is spent duoing with my friend, but when I had some solo time last week and tried out the widow it was certainly the most godly beast out of any of the characters I've played to L50 - which is all archetypes redside (though obviously not all powersets).
When you totally mow through the RWZ challenge it gives you a nice sense of satisfaction, especially when your favourite character (Bane, in my case) fails at it every time (admittedly my Bane isn't softcapped to melee and has no Aid Self - he chews through L54 Rikti Assault Suit EBs no problem, though). Just chewing through a L54 boss quickly and easily is impressive in itself, but to go through 3-4 at once with their attendant minions/lieuts is just silly and very fun.
Normal missions are simply no challenge for the Widow, which might get dull after a while, although they're not much challenge for my Bane either and solo/teamed I still enjoy playing that, as much and maybe more than the Widow. I am a sucker for huge orange numbers, though, and the Bane delivers those in spades - the Widow just gets lots of smaller orange numbers very quickly.
Then again the Widow's godliness has persuaded me to purple my Bane up to godly levels as well. I was almost back up to 2billion inf redside the last time I checked my marketing character (and may be there if all current stock has sold - ditto on blueside, but I haven't decided if my Arch/En or my Warshade will get the purple treatment there - probably both).
I don't pay extortionate "buy it now" prices so it would take me a while to get the IOs for the Bane together anyway - on the bright side I won't need many IOs (just purples and some LotGs) as he already has most of the non-purple IOs his optimised build will need. Though I've been staring at that build in Mids nearly every day for the past 3 months trying to work out what to drop to fit in Aid Self I won't start buying/slotting until I'm fully satisfied with his build in Mids.
However, the Bane has zero end issues now, so it may be that a purpled Bane might be the better option for the Pylon Challenge: 1 IO'd Bane + 1 purpled Widow certainly seem to kill a pylon slightly faster than 2 purpled Widows, though the -res debuffs definitely skew things by amping up the dps of the partner Widow so much.
But rest assured, the Widow decimates everything in front of her except Pylons, though I have yet to try her against an AV. At some stage I want to play through Viridian's arc with her, though - on Relentless I suspect the Council invite mission in particular would be a rather interesting solo experience for any build with pretensions to godhood - outside of the LRSF it's not often you get to face 6 AVs one after the other.
You sound like me, i like to be an absolute destroyer in combat, which explains my NRG/WP brute.
I havn't purpled it up to godly levels yet, but i think we'd get along well ingame. I think i might try to catch you sometine if you're ever on union xD
So you say you've got a godly bane build? I picked up a build called pain asylum a while back that seems absolutely godly. Mind sharing yours?
I suck in mids so my motivation for levelling up characters is when i see some expert player post an absolutely godly build and i think, 'WOO i want that!'
So far my widow is lvl 17, been helping my friends level on my 50 lately. My bane spider could certainly do with a boost!
My NW hit 50 yesterday but i'd started slotting straight away at 47, an instantly.
Well oh my it's awesome, critical damage is very nice.
main points on my build, which i'll post again as it's very different to before.
I aimed for soft capped, positional defense. without mind link. so I can still have soft cap even if I get debuffed.
perma ML without hasten.
low end use under 0.50 with all fight/defense toggles on.
nice but not silly regen so I don't cripple foresites effect.
and mainly no purps in the build, as I can't afford them etc.
overal it's a very nice toon, solo, and also in teams.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
An razor, just realised I got you on global dude. can check my nw effy on malibu next time we're on an i'll help yours get to 24 over the next week if you want.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
Koo, cya ingame, can't wait to get my widow level'd up. Your widow can play with my bane x)
Coincidently we did a respec together randomly just after you posted that dude haha. your bane was pretty sweet man, stealth ftw
got my stealth io after in cj, just like stalkers its great.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
I'm posting this build here mainly so I can link it in another topic (where Devans has requested sight of it), but without derailing that topic.
This build is expensive - 2.3billion inf spent recently, mainly on the purples, though I had a lot of the uniques/procs/HOs in my base storage anyway - probably well north of 2.5billion in total even with patient bidding (and I am a patient bidder - I like bargains!). Normally I'd consider anyone mad for spending this kind of inf on a build - but with recent price rises on the BM driving me into marketeering, and then finding out how easy it is to make oodles of inf, I decided to spoil myself and make a ludicrously powerful build that could solo AVs, do the RWZ Challenge and solo a Rikti pylon - and perhaps even manage to survive facing some of the overpowered custom critters littering the MA
Just don't ask me how this build plays yet - my Widow is currently L42, frankenslotted with cheap sets, but since L35 I've known the Widow playstyle suited me and that I wanted to make the best of her. I do have all of the IOs for this build either slotted already or in base storage waiting until she hits 50 (sometime in the next few weeks). Yes I am probably insane, but I'll let the build speak for itself
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Mistress Distress: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(3), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Apoc-Dam%(17)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), T'Death-Dam%(31)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(7), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Follow Up -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(9), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Hectmb-Dam%(34), GSFC-Build%(34)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), T'Death-Dam%(33)
Level 14: Spin -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(15), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Armgdn-Dam%(21), Erad-%Dam(29)
Level 16: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(45), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(45), Numna-Heal(45)
Level 18: Slash -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), T'Death-Dam%(36)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(23), P'Shift-End%(29)
Level 22: Foresight -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def(25), LkGmblr-Def(25), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 24: Mind Link -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(40), HO:Membr(40), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 28: Dart Burst -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(39), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Ragnrk-Knock%(43)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 32: Combat Jumping -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 35: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A), Zephyr-Travel(42), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(42)
Level 38: Mask Presence -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(40), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 41: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 44: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 47: Aid Self -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(48), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Dct'dW-Heal(48), Dct'dW-Rchg(50)
Level 49: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
------------
Highlights include:[*]perma-hasten for a total of 192.5% global recharge, [*]soft-capped defence to all positions with perma Mind Link (and to melee without it) but with enough surplus defence to take several -def debuffs without noticing,[*]60% resist to speed debuffs (I really hate Caltrops...), [*]+22% global damage but can potentially keep Follow-Up triple-stacked for +112% dmg total with an ongoing +36% ToHit (including the Kismet),[*]3.82 end/sec recovery less 0.99 end/sec toggle cost in combat (will recover more end/sec than my /WP brute/scrapper).
My only doubt was whether to go with the GSFC proc or a damage proc in FU, but the Build Up proc seemed like more fun - it will have lots of chances to fire and this build can fit its entire single target attack chain into 5.25 seconds easily (into 4.1secs actually, according to Mids, but with my poor connection I doubt it will match that in practice, even using power-queuing as I do).
It's a dps build of course, built for taking down hard targets - if I want better burst damage then I have my Bane and if I want to kill spawns faster then I have his Crab build - though at L42 with just cheap frankenslotting this Widow build minces spawns pretty handily too (if slower than my Bane/Crab does, but they can't survive or kill tough targets quite so well as this build should).
As soon as she hits 50 and slots everything my first action will be attempting the RWZ challenge (L54 Rikti spawn, 3 bosses, no insps/temps, no disengaging/pulling/splitting) then maybe a Pylon (my Bane has duo'd a pylon pretty quickly with my friend's Night Widow). I watched my friend's L50 Night Widow do the RWZ Challenge, but so far I've only tried it with my En/Elec Brute (succeeded, but it was a close run thing) and my Bane (failed many times - his build needs Aid Self to be capable of it, but I'd struggle to fit Aid Other and Aid Self in without compromising what I like about his build).
Comments welcome.